My (Hot?) Take on Willards Rebel Problems

[verTix]

i'd argue creating character not even an hour old to go and get people PK's is not in the spirit of SRP and thus shouldn't be on the server.

would you say the same about creating a character and immediately running to the slums and joining a rebel group? perhaps even rejoining the same group that you were just in?

 

[DirectorHomeless]

would you say the same about creating a character and immediately running to the slums and joining a rebel group? perhaps even rejoining the same group that you were just in?

Yes.

they are part of the same problem just the other side of the coin.

 

[Sagsworth]

i'd argue creating character not even an hour old to go and get people PK's is not in the spirit of SRP and thus shouldn't be on the server.

im pretty sure throwaways are against the rules, or should be. but this isn't a statement as to whats good for the server, it's about whether or not you're being smart or stupid. if snitches exist, and you act as if they don't, and you get snitched - bruh what did you think was going to happen.

 

[DirectorHomeless]

im pretty sure throwaways are against the rules, or should be. but this isn't a statement as to whats good for the server, it's about whether or not you're being smart or stupid. if snitches exist, and you act as if they don't, and you get snitched - bruh what did you think was going to happen.

not really, if 4 people in the slums are talking about their disdain for the combine and a snitch gets all of them rounded up, arrested and killed, that snitch had just disposed of 4 characters for talking...
There are so few ways to defend a snitch, and when a valid case pops up, it is often irrefutable, an instance like this is not.

 

[Rabid]

The problem is the barrier for PK's based on reporting, not reporting itself. Without reports you'd have cops actively running into the slums far more often which is a lot worse.

Unless the cops physically go and confirm whatever it is, you should need multiple people backing up your story if your report is "I saw x with a gun".

 

[Robert]

Hmm. Okay I see some more ideas popping in, good constructive talk so far. I got a document in the works (Well it is a google slide doc but it works for separating issues more clearly and easy to understand fashion) which I will link here (You all have comment access)

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1bAFm33k03RDHnCyPUM9RbrAu4JstF46MMJP_fShLxn0/edit?usp=sharing

You can comment your ideas there and even offer differing suggestions to what has been written thus far. It will be helpful for me in the long-run as I work with the staff and other CMs to actually get these issues pushed up and addressed without much delay as I have been quite persistent to everyone as of late as my own experience as trying out Rebel gameplay has been quite revealing to see that yes... you can just do the cheap solo route.. yes the experience feels dead with even the ability to gain high-tier loot without doing 1 event or without even taking part in a conversation with other players. It has opened my eyes to a lot of things over time in how and why Rebels become the way they are now, even getting snitched on so easily because snitches are fed rewards like coming across the free candy store, except the candy store is every single CP and with plenty of "Sweets" to claim in Slums.

 

[Rabid]

It has opened my eyes to a lot of things over time in how and why Rebels become the way they are now, even getting snitched on so easily because snitches are fed rewards like coming across the free candy store, except the candy store is every single CP and with plenty of "Sweets" to claim in Slums.

I do have to say, RebelRP was always going to go this way and there wasn't much that could have been done. That is the inherent problem in giving rebels access to lots of equipment because they feel powerless; that equipment quickly becomes the driving factor and they want to keep it, so they hide.

On the flip side; snitches are common because I honestly can't remember the last time LoyalistRP got this sort of in-depth treatment. I've seen hundreds of threads for rebels and changes for them but almost none for Loyalists, who are hopeless stuck grinding jobs that rely on the good graces of poor cops to man the work desk and reward them for it, for tiers that ultimately do nothing.

Snitching is the best option, frankly. Its gone from being a risk of being around loyalists to being the most profitable way for loyalists to gain points.

I hate to say it, but I think at some point rebels need to be put on the back-burner. To bring up the Bottlestreet era; so much of that worked because rebels were told, frankly, to join in. They didn't have many options. The city was the focus; you had a rich and lively tapestry of people and plotlines that let rebels get involved.

You don't have that now - even the map itself was made primarily around rebels by giving them MORE space, y'know?

 

[Sagsworth]

not really, if 4 people in the slums are talking about their disdain for the combine and a snitch gets all of them rounded up, arrested and killed, that snitch had just disposed of 4 characters for talking...
There are so few ways to defend a snitch, and when a valid case pops up, it is often irrefutable, an instance like this is not.

im not defending the snitch, im saying dont be a retard and have those conversations unless you're 100% secretive

 

[DirectorHomeless]

@Robert

To give light to some of the points on that document you made, and some perspective.


Smuggling and the Player BMD:

Smuggling is a weird one, as removing them would hurt some core fundamentals of Rebel RP, such as the introduction of new 'things' to the rebel economy, equally, if not done correctly they are easily abused and you get HUGE wealth disparity by people who log on and just chuck stuff at the Smugglers, we have seen this once at least with people with an account of 250k+ chips which can get you just about anything, be it as a physical script or something 'off server' such as a compound or APC or some such other thing.

Player BMD is.....an odd one, As an idea and for what it is meant to do, it works and is an integral part of the server, having the economy of Rebels be dependant on admins hopping on to either deliver goods to Player BMD's (Yes this is our logistical basis) or simply to host their own events is not sustainable.

ideally, as mentioned by @Travis, it would be good if the Player BMD's didn't require admin intervention to actually deliver the physical goods and if there was a similar system to the DoB where we can order items in via a menu and they get delivered via a dispenser, and whilst this provides a solution to the problem it causes other issues.

 

[Dog]

A good idea to get cops to be open to being rouge and or corrupt is to greatly limit their resources - forcing the lot to take bribes and whatever else to get by.

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I really think a looting period would be the best option for both heavy RPers and grinders @Robert
Like I said, weekly changes to the amount of loot spawns appearing/quality of loot which gets grinders off and to roleplay while they wait for decent scavengey times, could even get them to trade with other players if theyre desperate or in hasty need.

 

[DirectorHomeless]

I really think a looting period would be the best option for both heavy RPers and grinders @Robert
Like I said, weekly changes to the amount of loot spawns appearing/quality of loot which gets grinders off and to roleplay while they wait for decent scavengey times, could even get them to trade with other players if theyre desperate or in hasty need.

Also the crafting economy needs to stop relying on adhesive so much.
the only reason people buy so much flour and sugar from the DoB is because of the crafting system. If you got rid of that need, the DoB would be poor.

 

[The Milkman]

A good idea to get cops to be open to being rouge and or corrupt is to greatly limit their resources - forcing the lot to take bribes and whatever else to get by.

that was the idea when they made the cp vendor make equipment cost credits but then everyone started to complain so they slowly started making things 0 credits and now its all 0 credits again im pretty sure

 

[Sagsworth]

whitelist resistance is terrible dont do it, it's better to induct rebels into an organised system after they make it themself than get a faction going. (DEDICATEDGAMEMASTERS)

In terms of BMD stuff, I hope that as long as there are relatively few high level BMDs, they should be able to handle the economy entirely. This does mean making proper weapons a part of the smuggling system, although there can be certain weapons that cannot be purchased this way.

Personally, the way I enjoyed smuggling the most was when we would create scripts from scrap/bought goods and use those to amass lots of chips which we then bought from at the time admin BMDs, but any BMD could do this purpose. The fact that Sunrise was effectively a backdoor medical manufacturer producing massive amounts of bandages, disinfectants and drugs to smuggle out of the system was always extremely cool and entirely made IC. We could then use those chips to buy more significant stuff.

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

I think it'd be nice if we saw more of a separation on a focus of criminal organizations. I.E Gangs/Organized crime/ And Insurgents/Terrorists.
Realistically I don't think everyone who gets a gun would be in the "Fight" for good reasons, Realistically I'd like to see gangs of citizens especially during this food crisis armed with bats knives whatever they can get their hands on maybe a pipe gun for the leader, Based on extorting businesses and gaining wealth/power. If we look at the Mafia in Prohibition they extorted alcohol because it was a banned commodity that people wanted There really should be more low brow street level gangs taking advantage of the food crisis and creating a sort of black market on food items and licit pre-war goods that we just don't see hell, You could extort local business's for "Protection Money". Making deals with corrupt CP's to look the other-way or do favors for them even?

I feel like most people are just going into it saying "Hey I can get a grind and eventually once I get a gun I can be seen as a rebel" As many in this thread have said that's how it is, And in my own experiences if you try and get involved in the resistance scene or perhaps stumble upon a group of them in the sewers there's no way in hell they'll entertain you unless you have a gun and a mask *Maybe* a vest.


Would really like to see it be easier for players to join and create small gangs of criminals and those gangs to develop and the resistance to be a sort of separate entity which you need to be selected and recruited given your character is deemed a fit to the cause more of an IC Approach then, Grind get gun walk around in indigent like you're at a Second amendment rally chatting with your militia buddies from the backwoods and dabbing on the citizens passing through to get a kebab from the shelter.


TLDR Make it easier for gangs and low brow criminal activity to bloom and develop and harder for anyone and anything to just get a gun and "Be Rebel".

 

[Rabid]

You could extort local business's for "Protection Money". Making deals with corrupt CP's to look the other-way or do favors for them even?

There's a reason this is never done: everything is digital, and tracked.

You cannot use 'combine currency' for rebel stuff either, so bribes and extortion are relatively pointless.

 

[DirectorHomeless]

whitelist resistance is terrible dont do it, it's better to induct rebels into an organised system after they make it themself than get a faction going. (DEDICATEDGAMEMASTERS)

In terms of BMD stuff, I hope that as long as there are relatively few high level BMDs, they should be able to handle the economy entirely. This does mean making proper weapons a part of the smuggling system, although there can be certain weapons that cannot be purchased this way.

Personally, the way I enjoyed smuggling the most was when we would create scripts from scrap/bought goods and use those to amass lots of chips which we then bought from at the time admin BMDs, but any BMD could do this purpose. The fact that Sunrise was effectively a backdoor medical manufacturer producing massive amounts of bandages, disinfectants and drugs to smuggle out of the system was always extremely cool and entirely made IC. We could then use those chips to buy more significant stuff.

Let me clarify some things for you:

The Player BMD doesn't have a progression system at the moment, we have 'levels' of what we can buy, but no method to actually move up those levels.

We also don't have a reputation system, a system by which our general trustworthyness is measured and our ability to maybe garner more trust with certain items relating to the initial issue.

 

[Ansty]

If you want to encourage rogues doesn't have to be just Cps. Maybe limit the medical supplies for CMU and make it a protocol to only give extensive treatment to upper echelons due to limited supply and if they want to treat some lower classes as well make trips to the slums to get medical supplies from rebels.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

Word defined systems are silver, development defined systems are gold.

Long Human resource / Rule defined systems (often in google docs or threads) by staff or faction lead for how the gameplay should be played, are in it's most time intensive situations a cause for inadequacies and confusion. The interaction is fully manual through agreements while holding much value to all parties. It'd be better off to define the game's balance through management mechanics.

Turn based combat is great example of how disagreements in S2RP is avoided, while at the same time harmonizing people without hacks or computers of poor performance which would've been a huge frustration if this was S2K.

Daily Resistance crime standards through NPC quests?

When it comes to rebel rp - which is complained by being time intensive (which sums accumulating value to your character due to real time spent) perhaps limit the resistance work into limited daily objectives that a few people can conduct. A NPC that grants you Gun with ammo which can't be dropped - but to be used to conduct your objective, then returning to the NPC and collecting your reward while confiscating the items you were granted. The gun could also despawn if you didn't conduct the task at all, you may even lose your ability of doing tasks if you can't get through with them.

NPCs can be tweaked for balance, you could have it as a whitelist to access this NPC, required hours spent on character or an entry license in the form of Chips to buy your way into doing resistance quests.

Rogues no longer whitelisted?

As for rogues, it probably would be more engaging if it was removed from being an authorization system - rather something along the lines of being a citizen disguised as a CP - with no visual, text based or familiar hints to CP players that you are rogue - other than your name not being on a spreadsheet. This would be engaging as the player in question will feel as if they don't really belong in the CP faction, rather than being someone who applied through forums and then filed in an application for rogue license.

 

[M U Z U N G U]

Daily Resistance crime standards through NPC quests?

When it comes to rebel rp - which is complained by being time intensive (which sums accumulating value to your character due to real time spent) perhaps limit the resistance work into limited daily objectives that a few people can conduct. A NPC that grants you Gun with ammo which can't be dropped - but to be used to conduct your objective, then returning to the NPC and collecting your reward while confiscating the items you were granted. The gun could also despawn if you didn't conduct the task at all, you may even lose your ability of doing tasks if you can't get through with them.

NPCs can be tweaked for balance, you could have it as a whitelist to access this NPC, required hours spent on character or an entry license in the form of Chips to buy your way into doing resistance quests.

This point is definitely an interesting approach seeing it can reward rebel players in return to kill time until the main events comes around. From a previous server and community, it had NPCs giving out quests that in return gives a reward, nothing that can be considered too valuable but enough to say "That was worth it". The only worry I have on this is if the Devs were to apply the rewards too generously and not rather have it be the sense of a daily quest.​

Rogues no longer whitelisted?

As for rogues, it probably would be more engaging if it was removed from being an authorization system - rather something along the lines of being a citizen disguised as a CP - with no visual, text based or familiar hints to CP players that you are rogue - other than your name not being on a spreadsheet. This would be engaging as the player in question will feel as if they don't really belong in the CP faction, rather than being someone who applied through forums and then filed in an application for rogue license.

The worry about this is that there could be too many CP whitelisted players choosing to go rogue and it can literally kill the entire CP Faction. It would be seen more of a quick git for a rebel character to be given guns, equipment and inside information of the Combine's action rather it feeling like an infiltration approach with high risk high rewards. The idea for the Rogue whitelist is to make sure the reasoning behind the character going rogue has actual sense in the matter and ease the situation of handling possible OOC issues relating to IC events. As far as I am aware of trusting the current playerbase with this kind of privilege is that it will turn to shit the moment the exploitive purpose of it is used abusively.​