Nerf the OTA HP pool

[GopnikPizzafox]

Much like the reply below you, this argument is pretty much shot down by the simple fact that OTA cannot get PK'd and rebels/vorts can, so while rebels can potentially wipe the floor with coordinated assaults, OTA don't need to coordinate assaults and rush in regardless as there's no risk to them, and they will come back. Obtaining their weapons doesn't mean jack if they have inexhaustable resources and numbers.

What it sounds like to me is a power trip that wants to keep on rolling because there's no tangible loss for them to suffer other than a trip back to the spawnpoint.

Which goes back to what I said before, where a solution that would make more sense would be implementing some kind of system that actually gives OTA players some form of material consequences for dying during a deployment, even if the consequence couldn't realistically be as severe as it would be for CP and rebel players.

 

[Vadim]

OTA being superhuman combine soldiers blessed by breen himself with the strength to wipe the floor with rebels is a myth made by the HL2RP community to appeal to Combine fanatics (powergamers) in the early days of HL2RP. Transhumans are marginally better than the average rebel in strength or any other stat, they're still human after all. Their power comes from their numbers, coordination and strategies.

Not putting this here to argue one point or another on balancing, just wanted to throw this out there.

 

[Headcrab]

Ehh, I'm gonna personally disagree and say the health pool in my personal opinion is fine where it is.

I think there's a underlying problems though with OTA I wanna bring up and one that isn't their problem per say, but more of a server issue that I think is making this come out more.

1. OTA have no reason to fear death.

At least that I know, there are no rank decreases, no limits on weapons used on their next life, no SC decreases or such. In comparison to a CP dying. So yeah, you can just W + M1 to your hearts content with the only real thing being lost is the gear you have on you. I think they should at least keep that 150 but make their deaths have some MEANING or consequence when you play wrong.

The average CP player at the minute stands with 100% more to lose than an OTA player when engaging a rebel that is two tiers of armor and weapons higher than them so they need to play more cautiously and smart. CP's have characters developed, ranks they've worked towards, other units/citizens/vorts they've befriended that'll all disappear when they die to a Vort or Rebel player that's developed to kill and fight OTA. Now the other issue.

2. We have been in a state of heightened alert for so long, it's become the norm and people aren't letting it cool off.

For the past 3-4 weeks, we've either been on JW, Red Alert, or straight up Socio-Black now this wasn't all the fault of some directly, but the CP-3 bombing and radiation, followed by the CP-1 bombing, the nexus crab attack, followed by multiple attacks and deaths of CPs and OTA, the antlion event and now the CWU warehouse has put OTA in a position to deploy regularly and hammer in Rebel Players heads to the point rebels are having to deal with the consequences of these bombings and more regular deployments even if they didn't personally have a hand in it.

Is this the regular? No. But a bombing on Victory Street of a massive supply warehouse and hub for the combine during an antlion event isn't going unnoticed. I just think we've been in heightened for so long, we forget that these aren't the normal deployment standards and that the hammer coming down is far more regular when these bombings keep happening, it's the push and pull of the fighting and now with bombing after bombing, it's become an annoyingly prevalent norm.

 

[Ruairidh]

why dont you just make OTA tiers like rebels have it? so some OTA armour is as strong as T3 and other OTA armour is as strong as T4? or 150 idk about the new armour that was added but just have it mirror ig.

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

Not for nothing, but the rebels keep poking the combine when there's no reason for them to.

On Monday, a free vort attacked the cops, which resulted in an OTA deployment, which is not surprising.

The rebels bombing the CWU warehouse resulted in a OTA deployment, not surprising

Rebels attacked Hard Point One which resulted in an OTA deployment, not surprising

Take this with a grain of salt since I don't play the other side but there is an age old saying

"Mess with the bull, you get the horns"

The code black was caused by a bombing in the CWU warehouse. The server was already on "code red" for the Checkpoint One bombing.

OTA deploys as a result of rebel actions, and the age old complaints start coming out that have been there since the dawn of time.

I'm in agreement with what neonity said above, the health pool isn't the issue at all

 

[The Milkman]

High Tier Rebels even run from CPs sometimes

Probably because they don’t want ota to deploy when they kill all the cops, and then ota will search the entire map and wipe the floor with them

Like when I was apart of the vort tribe way back in the day, we would never really engage CP sweeps in the sewers if we could help it, even if we were at a reasonable number of vorts to take them on, because while CPs might not enter our base for fear of getting PK’d while crawling through the long, narrow vents, and thus avoid us, ota would simply have an infinitely long siege on us until we died.

 

[GopnikPizzafox]

Ok so since I'm bored af and the topic of this conversation is pretty interesting to me in a trivia way, I decided to do proportion calculations of the vanilla HP values of HL2 citizen, vortigaunt, CP and OTA (OWS and EOW).
For reference, here are the HP values in question, arranged in order of least to most HP:
- Citizen HP (it's the same for rebels too) = 40
- CP HP = 40
- OWS HP = 50
- EOW HP = 70
- Vortigaunt HP = 100

Now, after doing proportion calculations between the different NPCs here, here's what HP differences should look like between different entities if we're going based off of vanilla values, using rebels as a base (and giving them max tier armor in most of the comparisons for balance reasons):
1. The combined HP value of a rebel should be equal to the combined HP value of a CP unit in an equivalent armor tier
2. The combined HP value of an OWS soldier should be x1.25 higher than the combined HP value of a rebel in the highest armor tier available
3. The combined HP value of an EOW should be x1.75 higher than the combined HP value of a rebel in the highest armor tier available
4. The combined HP value of a vortigaunt in the highest armor tier available should be x2.5 higher than the combined HP of a rebel in the highest tier armor available

This is, of course, only what it'd look like if we wanted to use vanilla values as a base, and adjust them for player HP on Willard for different entities. I just figured it'd offer an interesting perspective on it, given that the values difference between most of them isn't that big except for vortigaunts who, for some reason, have the highest base HP among all the above-mentioned NPCS in hl2 vanilla as NPCs.

 

[The_Grass_Man]

Ok so since I'm bored af and the topic of this conversation is pretty interesting to me in a trivia way, I decided to do proportion calculations of the vanilla HP values of HL2 citizen, vortigaunt, CP and OTA (OWS and EOW).
For reference, here are the HP values in question, arranged in order of least to most HP:
- Citizen HP (it's the same for rebels too) = 40
- CP HP = 40
- OWS HP = 50
- EOW HP = 70
- Vortigaunt HP = 100

Now, after doing proportion calculations between the different NPCs here, here's what HP differences should look like between different entities if we're going based off of vanilla values, using rebels as a base (and giving them max tier armor in most of the comparisons for balance reasons):
1. The combined HP value of a rebel should be equal to the combined HP value of a CP unit in an equivalent armor tier
2. The combined HP value of an OWS soldier should be x1.25 higher than the combined HP value of a rebel in the highest armor tier available
3. The combined HP value of an EOW should be x1.75 higher than the combined HP value of a rebel in the highest armor tier available
4. The combined HP value of a vortigaunt in the highest armor tier available should be x2.5 higher than the combined HP of a rebel in the highest tier armor available

This is, of course, only what it'd look like if we wanted to use vanilla values as a base, and adjust them for player HP on Willard for different entities. I just figured it'd offer an interesting perspective on it, given that the values difference between most of them isn't that big except for vortigaunts who, for some reason, have the highest base HP among all the above-mentioned NPCS in hl2 vanilla as NPCs.

 

[Ruairidh]

Ok so since I'm bored af and the topic of this conversation is pretty interesting to me in a trivia way, I decided to do proportion calculations of the vanilla HP values of HL2 citizen, vortigaunt, CP and OTA (OWS and EOW).
For reference, here are the HP values in question, arranged in order of least to most HP:
- Citizen HP (it's the same for rebels too) = 40
- CP HP = 40
- OWS HP = 50
- EOW HP = 70
- Vortigaunt HP = 100

Now, after doing proportion calculations between the different NPCs here, here's what HP differences should look like between different entities if we're going based off of vanilla values, using rebels as a base (and giving them max tier armor in most of the comparisons for balance reasons):
1. The combined HP value of a rebel should be equal to the combined HP value of a CP unit in an equivalent armor tier
2. The combined HP value of an OWS soldier should be x1.25 higher than the combined HP value of a rebel in the highest armor tier available
3. The combined HP value of an EOW should be x1.75 higher than the combined HP value of a rebel in the highest armor tier available
4. The combined HP value of a vortigaunt in the highest armor tier available should be x2.5 higher than the combined HP of a rebel in the highest tier armor available

This is, of course, only what it'd look like if we wanted to use vanilla values as a base, and adjust them for player HP on Willard for different entities. I just figured it'd offer an interesting perspective on it, given that the values difference between most of them isn't that big except for vortigaunts who, for some reason, have the highest base HP among all the above-mentioned NPCS in hl2 vanilla as NPCs.

ditch the first part, the second part is good though

 

[registry: brush him]

Not for nothing, but the rebels keep poking the combine when there's no reason for them to.

On Monday, a free vort attacked the cops, which resulted in an OTA deployment, which is not surprising.

The rebels bombing the CWU warehouse resulted in a OTA deployment, not surprising

Rebels attacked Hard Point One which resulted in an OTA deployment, not surprising

Take this with a grain of salt since I don't play the other side but there is an age old saying

"Mess with the bull, you get the horns"

The code black was caused by a bombing in the CWU warehouse. The server was already on "code red" for the Checkpoint One bombing.

OTA deploys as a result of rebel actions, and the age old complaints start coming out that have been there since the dawn of time.

I'm in agreement with what neonity said above, the health pool isn't the issue at all

"If you don't want OTA deployments, then you shouldn't poke the Combine!"

Overwatch is specifically intended to be present within the outlands performing harvest work, eliminating Xen threats, exterminating coordinated rebellions, and acting like other synths do; as the will of the Combine's advisory.

Transhumans...

Should not be getting deployed at all.

Period.

If you have a few annoying rebels daring to do the unthinkable and rebel, as is their purview, then realistically Overwatch is going to give whiny CPs the Combine phraseological equivalent of a "fuck you, handle it yourself".

If CPs are so inept that they cannot handle one vort or a few rebels with pipe bombs, then the Combine would see fit to decommission the city, not waste time sending soldiers.

If rebels are being so stupid and messing with a bull, then the transhumans should not need a tank health and armor build to wipe them out. If you're worried that transhumans will start eating shit by the bushel if their pool is lowered to fairer levels, then the Combine have failed.

 

[Astro]

After this past few days, I stand completely corredted

 

[Astro]

Let’s just uh, lock this forums thread then.

 

[Robert]

After a quick balance review of this and generally some back and fourths, we are moving this to denied for now as generally the OTA health pool only has a +50 advantage over your highest tiered rebel. And overall damage output between the two has Rebels at a very slight advantage over OTA with that 50 HP considered- aka... pretty fairly balanced from one end- that and we saw how one vort can really turn a fight up side down on its head, so resistance is fairly balanced.

You could argue that "Vorts aren't around enough" but that is mute as Balance doesn't and never will account for variables like that because those are "edge cases", times where the system may not work as intended but is still indeed functional. And that is just Balancing game 101 for you. Pick your battles carefully in the end.

DENIED

 

[The Milkman]

After a quick balance review of this and generally some back and fourths, we are moving this to denied for now as generally the OTA health pool only has a +50 advantage over your highest tiered rebel. And overall damage output between the two has Rebels at a very slight advantage over OTA with that 50 HP considered- aka... pretty fairly balanced from one end- that and we saw how one vort can really turn a fight up side down on its head, so resistance is fairly balanced.

You could argue that "Vorts aren't around enough" but that is mute as Balance doesn't and never will account for variables like that because those are "edge cases", times where the system may not work as intended but is still indeed functional. And that is just Balancing game 101 for you. Pick your battles carefully in the end.

DENIED

If ur taking into account the mass vort freeing yesterday, the vortbeams were bugging out and doing 500 damage when they shouldn’t have!

 

[registry: brush him]

After a quick balance review of this and generally some back and fourths, we are moving this to denied for now as generally the OTA health pool only has a +50 advantage over your highest tiered rebel.

"The lowest tiered OTA has 50 HP on your highest tiered rebel"
"Also pk is on"
"all of us have AR2s btw"
"And if you breathe wrong 20 of them will flood the sewers"
"why are there so many posts asking for OTA to be nerfed? aren't they superhumans?"

DENIED

Welp, that's all, folks. We'll be back in a week when another post requesting an OTA nerf gets denied by OTA mains.

 

[Robert]

Welp, that's all, folks. We'll be back in a week when another post requesting an OTA nerf gets denied by OTA mains.

The funny thing about this statement is I main Rebel and the balance team as a whole pretty much mains Rebel... congrats on being gone for 2 years and coming back like its still 2020

"The lowest tiered OTA has 50 HP on your highest tiered rebel"
"Also pk is on"
"all of us have AR2s btw"
"And if you breathe wrong 20 of them will flood the sewers"
"why are there so many posts asking for OTA to be nerfed? aren't they superhumans?"

The fact you took the time to write this but not actually read what I said is quite laughable, but I digress... you do realize this is the only thread of its kind in probably the last year or so... maybe a whole year and a few months since anyone really mentioned "OTA OP". Mainly just been a few guideline mess-ups on their part but all peacefully resolved unlike the past you are familiar with.

Also to snap my fingers and immediately rebuke your entire point. OWS = 300 HP in total. Super High tier rebel = 250 HP in total.
Vorts w/armour = 300 HP in total. Where it falls flat is not only the Vorts being strong in themselves but also the fact that said 250 HP rebels have a DPS advantage over the OTA... so all in all. It takes the same time for 1 OTA to kill 1 Rebel as it does for one high-tier rebel to kill one OTA bar a few milliseconds... ye, the whole thing there falls flat from a balance POV.

Anyway, bye-bye for now