Notices NEW CHANGE, NEW ERA - EXECUTIVE ORDER NO.06

[verTix]

people that play willard that are "new" to hl2rp are in for a real treat when the hype around the new map wears off and they realize that the same shit is happening just on a different map

 

[Moon]

i dont really have the willpower to delve into the citizen/rebel rp dynamic, but i did see a feedback survey somewhere that im too lazy to fill out - so i will summarise my thoughts here

the issue in my eyes revolves around a lack of communication, appearing to ignore feedback and both of these issues being pertinent to a decision that affected a vast swathe of the server. i will say that this is mostly how this appeared. maybe you guys did acknowledge feedback earlier than it seemed, but if you did - there was a lack of transparency about it

this was a move that i think quite a few people could foresee having an objectively negative impact on most peoples roleplay. these concerns were then voiced in this thread (and perhaps in the discord, but any serious feedback gets flooded because it is mostly shitposting there) but appeared to be completely ignored. following further feedback, this move was then half repealed - not fully - with still no OOC feedback from those responsible. correct me if i am wrong on that point

at this point, whats done is done. the semi repeal is effective in that i think it no longer affects as many characters, but it still makes loyalism less incentivizing because it cuts off a significant portion of the map. if you want to move forward in a positive way then i think working on communication and transparency, in my humble opinion, would be a great step.

i also personally dont see any merit in keeping any form of this order around. maybe some people will disagree, but being called a spear chucker IC because i am seen leaving the slums by a bored loyalist is not very meaningful roleplay

 

[John Rico]

As an aspiring shop owner it'd be fun to play the part of a supplier of goods for groups in the slums and create some interaction between both sides, but nothing in the server seems to facilitate that kind of roleplay, cops are too scared to not do exactly what their rulebook says based on the PK appeals I've read, and the laws let them kill even the most inoffensive of citizens.

• You could pull a Merlin, do it anyway 'for the sake of the roleplay and enjoyment of people', and cops would still curbstomp you to claim their W and then stop playing because there's nothing interesting for cops to do. Personally, it feels like any roleplay-maker would just be fucked over in the current state of affairs.

 

[Rabid]

maybe some people will disagree, but being called a spear chucker IC because i am seen leaving the slums by a bored loyalist is not very meaningful roleplay

I lol'd tbh, but you have a point.

As someone with a loyalist character there is literally nothing to do right now for most of the day in the city - and no way am I walking into the rebel roleplay hub and risking being killed for it lol.

As an aspiring shop owner it'd be fun to play the part of a supplier of goods for groups in the slums and create some interaction between both sides, but nothing in the server seems to facilitate that kind of roleplay, cops are too scared to not do exactly what their rulebook says based on the PK appeals I've read, and the laws let them kill even the most inoffensive of citizens.

• You could pull a Merlin, do it anyway 'for the sake of the roleplay and enjoyment of people', and cops would still curbstomp you to claim their W and then stop playing because there's nothing interesting for cops to do. Personally, it feels like any roleplay-maker would just be fucked over in the current state of affairs.

I had an absolutely amazing bit of RP with @Maroon on his Captain on my aspiring cop-to-be and I'm incredibly excited to see where it leads if/when I get into the faction. It has so much potential, and I hope his character was being genuine when he's specifically gonna keep an eye on mine due to his brass-sized balls regarding approaching him for a recommendation. Like, I had a faction lead on one of the most powerful characters in the city stop and give me a good 20 minutes of roleplay when he could have been doing anything else.

Can't praise that enough.

The problem, though?

Most cops don't give you that. Most cops do not interact. I have approached god knows how many over my time playing Willard and they either shoo you, engage briefly before walking off or just ignore you. I had to wait two days for one of the cops to actually take time away from doing nothing to assign me a work task to get the last two points I needed, despite how interesting I made it.

And it sucks. No wonder cops are so bored; they make themselves bored as fuck because the majority just won't strike up a conversation, no matter if your character is a loyalist or not.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Being able to storm Triumph briefly is a hundred times less interesting than a few months ago when 90% of the groups were gangs who had their fingers in the city and were legitimate antagonists.

One of the biggest issues currently really. Rebels essentially have free reign within their little world and only the OTA can really pose a genuine threat to tearing it down. CP's are only really useful for dealing with unsuspecting rebels or those mostly new to the scene. The new balance is primarily between Rebels and OTA, while no others really have a place in it anymore. The desperation of the past has dissipated in favor of Impulse style rebels, where scripts and weapons are plenty.

By itself, its not all bad, but it has drizzled issues across the server as a side effect. Once V4 comes out with its more rebel centric design, the problem is going to be even worse I predict. The fact the slum and city is basically treated as two entirely distinctive and separate locations is itself an issue. Honestly, even in 1984 (Yes, I know a meme, but lets not pretend Willard doesn't take inspiration from it) the Lower-party was not forbidden from visiting the lower districts. It was just risky, and came with many questions and looks you would rather avoid. A total cut-off of any level, probably isn't a good idea.

While I know this take causes lots and lots of seething, I think part of the solution is to knock rebels down a peg, and bring back some of the old challenge. Limit the ability of rebels to become entirely self-sufficient. Promote the melding of the high and low societies through scarcity and influence. Have CP's retake the position of being the primary antagonists to rebels and infiltrators, capable of putting up outright impassible resistance in the right circumstances. (Leads are working on that tbf) Have CP's and loyalists able to access the slums, but with caveats and risks, without it delving into the realm of certain doom.

None of this is even 'lol rebels suk' and if that's the way people choose to see this entire issue, then it will never be solved, especially if that mindset clouds 'higher-ups' perceptions. Reality is, the problem has bounced back and forth multiple times.
First the city sucked
Then the slums sucked
Now the City sucks again.

The one thing Willard has never accomplished is proper balancing of elements. Whether combat or server structure, something is always heavily favoring something or another. Somewhere in the middle of all this is the proper middle-ground. Rebels imo should be encouraged to specialize in subterfuge and manipulations. Corruption and thievery of bits and pieces of victory. They should be supported in these efforts as well. The trade-off being that direct combat should typically be undesirable. This helps the two sides of the coin meld together into one more cohesive body. Rebels should not be able to become an uprising strength force without ever having to truly concern themselves with the happenings of the city, which is how I see it as currently being.

 

[Rabid]

Sorry in advance, you just posted a lot of good stuff I wanna add to!

I also say this as someone who has mained a rebel across several communities for many years now. I am not approaching this from a place of "Union bias".

One of the biggest issues currently really. Rebels essentially have free reign within their little world and only the OTA can really pose a genuine threat to tearing it down. CP's are only really useful for dealing with unsuspecting rebels or those mostly new to the scene. The new balance is primarily between Rebels and OTA, while no others really have a place in it anymore. The desperation of the past has dissipated in favor of Impulse style rebels, where scripts and weapons are plenty.

Therein lies one of the biggest issues for me. The Resistance is now comfortably capable - in most cases - of fighting off the average sweep by either cops or OTA unless its a total ambush. That by itself isn't a problem, though! They should be able to get victories from time-to-time.

But any adjustment of those 'average sweep' numbers for either Cops or OTA to get more than a loss or a draw will be seen as an act of spite by Rebel players, rather than something that should have been adjusted as they grew in strength. This also means that any attempt to actually inflict losses will also be taken as an act of spite. They - and the slum dwellers - are too big of a part of the playerbase for it to not have such an impact now.

The more rebel players are emboldened like this and allowed to exist without pressure IC that makes them think twice, the more this attitude will become the norm. I've seen it in multiple communities.

tl;dr - You can't suddenly decide to send in 12 Cops or OTA at once or something when you have set the bar at 6 even in the worst situations IC or it'll be taken as an act of spite OOC, rather than a show of force. See the last CCC thread on OTA for an example of that.

By itself, its not all bad, but it has drizzled issues across the server as a side effect.

Armed 'sewerrp' is always a drain on the city and its why it was something I really hoped wouldn't be encouraged like it has here. If you don't make RebelRP difficult and, to a degree, unappealing you end up right here.

People forget that the barrier for leaving the city is as easy as walking to the slums and never coming back, especially with how self-sufficient you can be in the slums now. You literally do not need the city, which fucks absolutely everyone in every faction that relies on a citizen population.

Once V4 comes out with its more rebel centric design, the problem is going to be even worse I predict.

Absolutely worse, especially because there is an already well-armed and well-established rebel community. Why make a surface gang and interact with the city when you can get fully geared from an event in no time these days?

While I know this take causes lots and lots of seething, I think part of the solution is to knock rebels down a peg, and bring back some of the old challenge. Limit the ability of rebels to become entirely self-sufficient. Promote the melding of the high and low societies through scarcity and influence. Have CP's retake the position of being the primary antagonists to rebels and infiltrators, capable of putting up outright impassible resistance in the right circumstances.

This.

RebelRP is inherently super interesting to newer players; the idea of getting a gun and fighting the Combine is basically what a lot join for but equally an open RebelRP scene cannot survive long-term without the city, and it certainly can't keep a server afloat by itself either.

Its a difficult issue to solve and I hate being super critical but this was a NIGHTMARE to solve for other communities too.

 

[Kappatalist]

But any adjustment of those 'average sweep' numbers for either Cops or OTA to get more than a loss or a draw will be seen as an act of spite by Rebel players, rather than something that should have been adjusted as they grew in strength. This also means that any attempt to actually inflict losses will also be taken as an act of spite. They - and the slum dwellers - are too big of a part of the playerbase for it to not have such an impact now.

Rebels are not capable of fighting off the average sweep. They aren't organised enough to do such a thing, CP are there every minute of the day armed to shit. Rebels simply aren't, and anything they do requires careful planning and preparation. I don't think I've seen an average sweep do anything but get arrests and kills when they go in, I haven't seen one ambushed in months, and that was back when scripts were actually hard to get.

CP retaliation does come. When they destroyed CP-1, they literally burned down half of Indigent and started beating people there en masse. They trashed barricades and shelters. But they shouldn't be able to react instantly, that's the very nature of being an insurgency. You don't go into a fight where you're evenly matched.

 

[Enlightening]

Therein lies one of the biggest issues for me. The Resistance is now comfortably capable - in most cases - of fighting off the average sweep by either cops or OTA unless its a total ambush. That by itself isn't a problem, though! They should be able to get victories from time-to-time.

Yes, there is a decent number of people that have access to rifles and above, however, this statement is just very confusing to me. In most cases? When was the last time a sweep was fought off? From what I observed this week, there were about 2 or 3 slum sweeps daily, with the exception of Saturday which only had 1. (At least what I observed, anyhow.) No point during this entire week have I heard a flatline noise once. Yes, there were occasional shootouts, but the hardest hitting weapon I personally observed was a Sterling. I think the last flatline I heard on the main server was when they burnt down the Nest and killed Liv, and that was like 2 flatlines but the sweep still was succesful. It's not a matter of capability, "The Resistance" isn't some single, organized blob of people. People who have brains and suspect or catch a whiff of a sweep stash their stuff, hang around in their civvies or just walk to the city. There's no organized effort to hold down against a sweep, why would there be? Are you just going to sit there and hold off against reinforcements until they either run out of cops or send OTA? No one's hanging out with AKs or M4s just waiting for cops in the slums. The only people who hang out with all their gear for absolutely no reason are either AFKing or flexing at the campfire for unknown reasons and most likely surrender or get captured anyway, you can look at the people who got captured/amputated last week for confirmation, I think a good chunk of them were italian characters.

 

[Rabid]

Rebels are not capable of fighting off the average sweep. They aren't organised enough to do such a thing, CP are there every minute of the day armed to shit. Rebels simply aren't, and anything they do requires careful planning and preparation. I don't think I've seen an average sweep do anything but get arrests and kills when they go in, I haven't seen one ambushed in months, and that was back when scripts were actually hard to get.

CP retaliation does come. When they destroyed CP-1, they literally burned down half of Indigent and started beating people there en masse. They trashed barricades and shelters. But they shouldn't be able to react instantly, that's the very nature of being an insurgency. You don't go into a fight where you're evenly matched.

Yes, there is a decent number of people that have access to rifles and above, however, this statement is just very confusing to me. In most cases? When was the last time a sweep was fought off? From what I observed this week, there were about 2 or 3 slum sweeps daily, with the exception of Saturday which only had 1. (At least what I observed, anyhow.) No point during this entire week have I heard a flatline noise once. Yes, there were occasional shootouts, but the hardest hitting weapon I personally observed was a Sterling. I think the last flatline I heard on the main server was when they burnt down the Nest and killed Liv, and that was like 2 flatlines but the sweep still was succesful. It's not a matter of capability, "The Resistance" isn't some single, organized blob of people. People who have brains and suspect or catch a whiff of a sweep stash their stuff, hang around in their civvies or just walk to the city. There's no organized effort to hold down against a sweep, why would there be? Are you just going to sit there and hold off against reinforcements until they either run out of cops or send OTA? No one's hanging out with AKs or M4s just waiting for cops in the slums. The only people who hang out with all their gear for absolutely no reason are either AFKing or flexing at the campfire for unknown reasons and most likely surrender or get captured anyway, you can look at the people who got captured/amputated last week for confirmation, I think a good chunk of them were italian characters.

I'm not talking about slum "sweeps" tbf; 99% of those I've seen don't catch anyone at all in anyway and they just do mass-searches.

Hell, really the only reason they're in there so much is because everyone else is there and otherwise cops have literally nothing to do. At least bugging the slum dwellers lets you interact with 90% of the server rn.

I'm just going off on what I've been told by longstanding rebel players tbh; my own rebel character is barely geared at all and I don't use it 99% of the time. Everyone I've spoken to has echoed the fact cops are basically a joke and a non-threat now, and OTA are scary but the days of them steamrolling everyone like a few months ago are done.

 

[Kappatalist]

I'm just going off on what I've been told by longstanding rebel players tbh; my own rebel character is barely geared at all and I don't use it 99% of the time. Everyone I've spoken to has echoed the fact cops are basically a joke and a non-threat now, and OTA are scary but the days of them steamrolling everyone like a few months ago are done.

Cops are far from a non-threat, I mean. They fucking wiped out TTD a few weeks back, then when TTD reincarnated into RG, they fucking nuked the shit out of them too.

As always, rebels are gonna plan with the advantage at hand. They're never gonna put themselves into a fight where the odds are even, because they can't afford any losses, whereas the Combine can afford hundreds upon hundreds. I don't think this has anything to do with the balance between Combine and Rebels at all. CPs can walk into slums anytime they want, they can wipe entire bases, anytime they want. A lot of the sweeps I've witnessed they do actually end up catching a good few people, too. I think @Rabithunter lost like seven people in a week or something crazy like that.

But there is a problem, I agree. The slums is just a dozen times more interesting than the city rn, I mean you've got some stores but there's nothing really interesting happening there when they are open. Script whores gon script whore, but anybody who cares will go to these places, as long as there's something for them to do, or talk about.

 

[RealGamer]

As always, rebels are gonna plan with the advantage at hand. They're never gonna put themselves into a fight where the odds are even, because they can't afford any losses, whereas the Combine can afford hundreds upon hundreds.

That's not really the case when there's rebels who just make another rebel character after they're PKed and they just get back into the rebel group they were in with their last character, sometimes even given higher positions for their ooc veterancy. Just a bit of metagame overall.

 

[Noodle]

<::INCOMING PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT::>

Dear populace of City 24,
After a successful purge nonetheless a successful conversion of non believers it is safe to say that our city is once again united. Following a glorious renovation of Triumph which is soon to be revealed, the Administration has decided to lift the sanctions included in Executive Order No.06.

This means that all sanctions related to Executive Order No.06 under the category of Sanctions will be lifted. The digital copy of the Executive order will also be modified accordingly. The Underclass act is still active.

Blessed be our Unity,
Blessed be our Loyalty,
Blessed be our Administration,
Godspeed to our Benefactors.

<::FROM THE OFFICE OF THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR::>
<::END OF PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT::>​