ORLOK'S PK DILEMMA

[Atom]

FIRST OFF:

This was in no way a *one week* worthy timeout. What I said before wasn't inflammatory, you can search it up.

Main topic:

Today's course of events has been frankly one of the worst managed things I've seen on here. From lack of communication to blatantly ignoring. I want to make one thing clear: I find this development of events incredibly horrible for rebel rp, considering how the largest rp cell was fucked over by minor things, and staff are willingly ignoring all of this. From the start, this was said to be a passive raid with no timer that eventually cascaded all of this, but in a new development, RAD-X admitted that it was due to some kind of "suitcase".

Here's the statement:

1. 
   "The suitcase was part of a GM event, which coincided to be happening around the same time the Combine were doing a sweep. In which case the sweep ran into the guy with the suitcase, and he ran back to the base leaving the door open. In which case by natural form - the Civil Protection decided to follow through at their own detriment (nobody knows why assaulting a base by themselves was a good idea but here we are).Low and behold - Civil Protection lost. Just earlier in time by a few days prior, the same situation sort of happened with a group of Civy Pros getting ambushed and abudcted and it resulted in around - say - 24 OTA deaths and some proprietary, collateral damage for CPs that ended up being captured.Unfortunately for the rebels, the CPs were kept in the base as captured prisoners. OTA deployed within a spam of I'd say 10 or 15 minutes and now this is why we're here. From the Combine perspective it seemed like a repeat of the earlier inconvenience of the disastrous war in the outlands, this time the sewers, was potentially on a scale of repeat.Rebel perspective - not much they could do here. Either run, fight, what ever. Base was compromised and understandably the feeling of shock & awe / what just happened? was still in the air. That raid wasn't what I called a successful raid but it certainly sparked the most amount of confusion for those rebels in that base figuring out how they even got into this situation.Now. Here's the worst part. Prepare for this to be declassified. You're not going to like it.The Leading GM authorised the CP raid with a go-ahead. Legitifying the entire attack, no matter how schizo the raid outcome was, which sparked an OTA raid.And it's all because of a suitcase."
   

First off: This is disgusting behavior from whoever authorized this. No matter if it was invalid, this was approved for the event, eventually providing cover for *literally any* raid rule breaks. Second off: The front is *not* an s2k group. I want to ask why are these groups, not focused on s2k, held in the same standards as a heavily fortified group like the liberators? Why is a less equipped group made to fight the same amount of enemies as the elite tier rebels?

The meta base was said to be seen opening, but I have been told that it was open oocly, I don't have much information about that. Someone else will have to speak on it.

Third off: The people that came to defend, got permed. This sets a bad standard, leave your fellow rebels to die. You could argue "No one should have attacked! They should have gotten NLR'd!" But, some combine players capture characters, eventually leading to a permakill due to the contraband.

The server does not favor role-play in rebels. It favors s2k.

And to add, these were denied by orlok in a hurried, no explanation fashion. When asked on discord, he offered an incredibly lacking response. Orlok has also a problem, brought up by someone on discord.

"

1. I mean, really hate to dredge up some mud -- but it's just quite concerning that in this particular instance
   Live by the sword, die by the sword
   `When the same PK manager in the past has ALSO UNPK'D AGRESSORS (Who were friends and beneficiaries of said arrangement; despite being totally legal under the pk rules)These characters were also given full refunds.Links provided.
2. https://willard.network/forums/threads/mchammonds-3-am-assassination.14898/
   https://willard.network/forums/threads/tekilija-saulelydess-pk-appeal.14858/
   Can't help but feel there is a double standard at play here, though.Just seems like a blatant way to make an example out of rebel rpers. (edited)
   

Final: Staff don't care.

 

[Atom]

The current rebel meta is to ignore all rp and just shot cop! Kill everyone! Make everyone pay the consequences! That's the only way you'll survive!

 

[Janek]

Feed your diners moldy food and poor service, and watch how these questions appear: "Why does the city feel empty?", "Why do the slums not have anyone?"

 

[Josh07]

We put ourselves at the mercy of the staff team to ensure that our RP is done fairly, get told to appeal on the forums if we dislike their arbitrary decision making, and then when we appeal on the forums we get told "After investigating ourselves, we have found no wrongdoing" and are expected to just move on from the situation. No hate to him, but I personally believe Orlok should be removed from his position for the bias and incompetence he has shown.

 

[Ket]

Hi, I actually viewed the entire situation as I was snooping on the loyalist stuff for a few hours before returning to where my character was on the beach, on my way I noticed this and Cocohop saying he'd fucked up, so I stopped to look. Perhaps I can give some insight into this.

The Leading GM authorised the CP raid with a go-ahead.

This was authorised by every single GM actively participating in the GM chat on the server at the time, including myself. When Coco said he fucked up, he said he was doing an event and the suitcase left the door open. Supposedly the suitcase was supposed to be a drop off of something or other that was going to be distributed, though perhaps my memory isn't entirely clear on this. But to say it is disgusting behaviour is a little bit of a stretch, it was in all honesty, a group decision.

Second off: The front is *not* an s2k group. I want to ask why are these groups, not focused on s2k, held in the same standards as a heavily fortified group like the liberators? Why is a less equipped group made to fight the same amount of enemies as the elite tier rebels?

When you create a group, you aren't categorised by every other player on the server in terms of how your group acts and how we should respond to you. I'd hardly heard of 'The Front' if I was being honest, but I knew of the second tagline (the leukolytes) or however you spell it (it's 100% spelt wrong here), and its leader who Leko plays. Regardless, OOCly perhaps some players look at each group differently. Like realistically there's a large portion of the server that hate the Liberators for shotcopping, and there's a large group that doesn't. However, it doesn't mean that factions on the server treat them any differently when by definition, both groups are inherently anti-combine.

You can also say less equipped, but you're comparing a large rebel group to another that has players more dedicated to acquiring better scripts, it's as simple as that. The Front wiped a civpro squad almost w/o taking any downs at all, this prompted a raid by the OTA.

The people that came to defend, got permed. This sets a bad standard, leave your fellow rebels to die. You could argue "No one should have attacked! They should have gotten NLR'd!" But, some combine players capture characters, eventually leading to a permakill due to the contraband.

That's entirely down to the PK managers, you could request to have the rules looked at, but they've changed them recently and there's sort of a meme where no one knows the PK rules as they change so often.

And to add, these were denied by orlok in a hurried, no explanation fashion. When asked on discord, he offered an incredibly lacking response. Orlok has also a problem, brought up by someone on discord.

The PK appeals were posted on Friday evening and denied four days later, being today. That's a relatively long time to go over the information, especially within a team environment which is what the PK management team is. Genny & Reece would've went over each one countless times, to say they were denied in a hurry is false or you lack the relative information.




I think you've written up a forum post in a lot of anger towards specific people rather than making an informative post on what is the current roleplay situation between Rebel, Civi & CivPro respectively. What you've got here is not someone who's going out of their way to deny your PKs because they hate you, but because an overarching situation of standard of play has essentially left the building.

Realistically, the culture behind rebel RP was brought about by the fact Rebel RP is more RPG focused than any other aspect of the server. Get scripts and kill shit, make friends along the way. There's a reason why Vortigaunt changes were implemented to make it so Vorts can't participate in shotcopping anymore, it only makes things worse. The overall lack of rules against shotcopping leaves players doing it so often that it becomes a daily issue, which means unrest code is constantly in effect which leaves the server environment lacking that creativity valve when it's been turned off at the mains.

It's far too easy to disrupt the server flow by activating Unrest code or fractured, and the Combine side of the server are far too quick to change the code to unrest/fractured, in turn it completely destroys the balance of the Civi/slummer side where true roleplay tends to take place.

All in all, I've spoken to people on both sides and watched this entire thing unfold with people arguing everywhere, and yet no one is tackling the core issue. I think you've got the right idea at heart but shouldn't be targeting the people that made the decision on PKs and focus entirely on roleplay environment and what has lead up to this point.

 

[Atom]

Hi, I actually viewed the entire situation as I was snooping on the loyalist stuff for a few hours before returning to where my character was on the beach, on my way I noticed this and Cocohop saying he'd fucked up, so I stopped to look. Perhaps I can give some insight into this.

This was authorised by every single GM actively participating in the GM chat on the server at the time, including myself. When Coco said he fucked up, he said he was doing an event and the suitcase left the door open. Supposedly the suitcase was supposed to be a drop off of something or other that was going to be distributed, though perhaps my memory isn't entirely clear on this. But to say it is disgusting behaviour is a little bit of a stretch, it was in all honesty, a group decision.


When you create a group, you aren't categorised by every other player on the server in terms of how your group acts and how we should respond to you. I'd hardly heard of 'The Front' if I was being honest, but I knew of the second tagline (the leukolytes) or however you spell it (it's 100% spelt wrong here), and its leader who Leko plays. Regardless, OOCly perhaps some players look at each group differently. Like realistically there's a large portion of the server that hate the Liberators for shotcopping, and there's a large group that doesn't. However, it doesn't mean that factions on the server treat them any differently when by definition, both groups are inherently anti-combine.

You can also say less equipped, but you're comparing a large rebel group to another that has players more dedicated to acquiring better scripts, it's as simple as that. The Front wiped a civpro squad almost w/o taking any downs at all, this prompted a raid by the OTA.

That's entirely down to the PK managers, you could request to have the rules looked at, but they've changed them recently and there's sort of a meme where no one knows the PK rules as they change so often.


The PK appeals were posted on Friday evening and denied four days later, being today. That's a relatively long time to go over the information, especially within a team environment which is what the PK management team is. Genny & Reece would've went over each one countless times, to say they were denied in a hurry is false or you lack the relative information.




I think you've written up a forum post in a lot of anger towards specific people rather than making an informative post on what is the current roleplay situation between Rebel, Civi & CivPro respectively. What you've got here is not someone who's going out of their way to deny your PKs because they hate you, but because an overarching situation of standard of play has essentially left the building.

Realistically, the culture behind rebel RP was brought about by the fact Rebel RP is more RPG focused than any other aspect of the server. Get scripts and kill shit, make friends along the way. There's a reason why Vortigaunt changes were implemented to make it so Vorts can't participate in shotcopping anymore, it only makes things worse. The overall lack of rules against shotcopping leaves players doing it so often that it becomes a daily issue, which means unrest code is constantly in effect which leaves the server environment lacking that creativity valve when it's been turned off at the mains.

It's far too easy to disrupt the server flow by activating Unrest code or fractured, and the Combine side of the server are far too quick to change the code to unrest/fractured, in turn it completely destroys the balance of the Civi/slummer side where true roleplay tends to take place.

All in all, I've spoken to people on both sides and watched this entire thing unfold with people arguing everywhere, and yet no one is tackling the core issue. I think you've got the right idea at heart but shouldn't be targeting the people that made the decision on PKs and focus entirely on roleplay environment and what has lead up to this point.

I understand your point but the anger to certain people is a bit amplified since the situation was handled VERY poorly, from ignoring us to directly shutting us up. I don’t find that fair.

 

[Atom]

And also I want to make myself clear: I’m kind of ass at expressing myself so it may be not what I intended to say

 

[Lord Beckett]

idk man, a GM leaving a door open seems like a pretty easy void justification. how is this not considered an open and shut case? It's the staff team's fault the base was raided, not the players

 

[Curbalas]

Really valid case of a void, also to mention on how the wave timer by broken by OTA, clearly against the rules Robert has updated a few weeks back.


Sounds hypocrital on how these void requests were denied, especially by the ones who absolutely believe rebels are bad roleplayers, and to their surprise... They were punished for RP'ing, as the CPs found out about the open door while they were writing a long /me, an action the same group of people "wanted" from the rebel players.

Funny.

 

[Rabid]

I understand large and complex cases being a pain in the ass and there's often the desire to not have to go through the headache of "sorting things out" vs just letting things sit. I've been there.

But in this case, was it not the fault (not intentionally or maliciously) of a GM leaving the door by accident just long enough for the base to be seen? I don't think voiding sets a dangerous precedent given that being the case.

 

[Janek]

I understand large and complex cases being a pain in the ass and there's often the desire to not have to go through the headache of "sorting things out" vs just letting things sit. I've been there.

But in this case, was it not the fault (not intentionally or maliciously) of a GM leaving the door by accident just long enough for the base to be seen? I don't think voiding sets a dangerous precedent given that being the case.

 

[Rabid]

View attachment 47773

I know you are just relaying this - thanks! - so don't think this is directed at you, but:

While I understand "shit happens sometimes" is a fact of RP, there's almost no chance the door would have been open if Cocohop hadn't been delivering something and, per the video, the sweep only seen the slighest hint of it closing alongside the biolock.

I don't want to blame the sweep for jumping the gun at a chance to base raid, but also its one of those things that could have been solved by any one of the GM's going "Hey, this was only open because of x. Bad timing on our end, sorry guys." and sent the sweep on its way. Or hell, even the cops deciding not to hit an RP hub over a sweep started because of two rebels being seen topside.

I also understand only those that showed up to help fight got PK'd in the end but I don't think you can reasonably ask rebels not to defend their own. Cops basically get to do the same thing via OTA, who don't really have the same risks.

 

[Garlic]

View attachment 47773

For context of who the rebel was in this scenario, I was the rebel. I did not open the door mainly because literally anything could be on the other side, and without confirmation of who it was, I was obviously going to ask questions. A /localevent USUALLY means to RP everything in the current situation, but apparently out of all times, APPARENTLY, doing detailed /me's are "mocked" by staff because you tried to actively react to the situation behind a door. Geez, RAD-X, isn't the entire purpose of Willard and RP MEAN'T for /me's and reacting to something. Wouldn't you WANT a rebel to type out detailed /me's so that they look like a better role player? I could've easily just pressed shift+e, did no sense of RP and carried on, but I decided not to be the minge rebel and still got mocked for doing something that's necessary for the server, amazing! Also, Atom, I did not leave the door open and let the cops casually enter nor was I ever attempting to flee with it, a GM already placed it in front of the door. I heard them rushing towards the base, and as soon as their gear emitted sound I immediately grabbed the suitcase and quickly closed the door, because I had no idea they were there and I realized RP didn't matter when there was cops legit right outside the door.

Wanna get a item delivered to a rebel base? Simple!

GET A PLAYER TO DO IT

 

[Janek]

APPARENTLY, doing detailed /me's are "mocked" by staff because you tried to actively react to the situation behind a door. Geez, RAD-X, isn't the entire purpose of Willard and RP MEAN'T for /me's and reacting to something.

I believe Rad wrote that as a "beginning chain of events" summary of sorts and without ill intent. Half the channel made fun of all the things that were just absurd butterfly effects. Of all I've read and seen, Rad seems to be the one person, who's got a clear idea of what happened from start to finish, and piecing together evidence provided.

 

[Genny]

@Atom

Hello! Just letting you know this has been closed. The PK policy as well as general rules have been updated for V3 for this to (hopefully) not happen again and if in the rare case it does, we will handle this better with hindesight. PK's will also be dealt by managment in general now rather than 1/2 people. If you have any questions let me know!