OTA-Level Cops

[Divine]

Imagine if you will, you're sitting idle on Triumph street, enjoying a bagel on a bench. You sit yourself up, and trot off into the slums. You're enjoying that bagel as you walk around looking for trash to scavenge; the typical slummer on the hunt for goodies. All of a sudden, you hear some gunshots.

Oh? Someone's hunting zombies in the sewers. Then come the beeps, and the boots, and the "<:: Don't move! ::>" commands. That's right, the cops deployed 7-strong into the slums because someone shot a zombie in the deep underground.

You have a gun on you, some cheap armor, maybe you could take them. You consider fighting back, and you might make a decent escape attempt - only one thing in your way.

Every single cop from i5 to i3 has 75 armor and MP7's
Oh, and of course...
Every single cop from i2 to CpT have 100 armor and MP7's (or shotguns)
​

That's normal, right? The 7 cops with SMGs and armor equivalent to OTA rushing into the slums en-masse, about to stop and frisk you; you'll die here, or you'll die fighting with your meager 25 armor and pistol.

This isn't balancing, this is using incompetence and failure to justify dropping cops at a place that is not at all reachable by rebels. Every single cop currently has riot armor and MP7's on marginal socio-code. Even if they didn't have riot armor, a recent buff has pushed cops to have 50 (RCT-i3), 75 (i2-i1), and 100 (RL-CpT).

Now admittedly, 75 armor for command units isn't all that bad! See, this can help combat against random shotcops or quick deployments against high-tier rebels who also have heavy armor. It would be rare on both sides, but that 75 armor can make a big difference - especially since they wouldn't have to run off to get riot armor; however, basing the entire faction's capabilities around the biggest threat solely will do zero good for low-tier rebels or scrappers. Even if they outnumber cops, they would need proper rifles to stand a chance.

Ask yourself:
Why are we rewarding the Combine failing to take proper steps to protect
themselves with buffs that make it impossible for low tier players to survive?
​

100 armor is bizarre, especially given cop & OTA co-deployments are allowed - and recently, we've seen OTA deploy over an i4 dying in the underground metro even though they were meant to be shelved and only used if rifles or heavy vortigaunt presence was clear.

I think this balancing decision needs to be looked at again. I do not want to encourage shotcops, but if somebody wants to evade cops sweeping for the 752nd time because the voice in their head told them to, they should have a chance to live. This whole 'let's sweep slums 500 times' thing gets old when it interrupts roleplay or just blatantly kills off people with zero chance to fight back. Not carrying your gear is one thing, but not everybody has that luxury.

Say "No" to 100 armor for cops.​

 

[Curbalas]

Spikewall's are meant to be deployed when a deploying protection team can't contain an outbreak, but a full OTA deployment would be overkill. Either we buff the amount of spike walls deployed to cope for this, or we increase the armor for the Spikewall so that they can take a bit more damage, rather than being 3 hit by vorts same as all other command/ground units with riot armor.

The Spikewall's gun makes a whole difference, the heavy pulse shotgun is the difference from a command unit. There are no buffs needed for a Spikewall, considering it was how Astro wanted it to happen. Spikewalls aren't even supposed to deploy unless CPs are going against high-tier rebels, which Spikewalls can counter pretty well if the player behind the Spikewall has good S2K capabilities and is smart.

 

[Marco]

The Spikewall's gun makes a whole difference, the heavy pulse shotgun is the difference from a command unit. There are no buffs needed for a Spikewall, considering it was how Astro wanted it to happen. Spikewalls aren't even supposed to deploy unless CPs are going against high-tier rebels, which Spikewalls can counter pretty well if the player behind the Spikewall has good S2K capabilities and is smart.

most high-tier rebels are geared like a spike wall (75 armor, spas/rifle)

 

[Stanford]

Hi,

Gameplay team has been discussing this and we spoke with OWF leads a bit as well. Now opinions are split all around because no one is really sure how to fully balance all of this because CPs have an additional issue outside of guns and armor, and that is a very clear as day "Skill Issue". Suffice to say, 90% cops lack any form of combat, situational or tactical awareness and inherently suck at any form of S2K combat scenario. Same with the OTA who can barely do any better while your average rebel has superior aim, combat sense, map knowledge and all sorts which basically make it feel like a CSGO/CS2 match of Silvers (CPs) Fighting Gold Nova and Legendary Eagles (Rebels).

Now I will clarify that part of the current issue stems from the fact there is a very big gap noticed between Rebel deaths and CP deaths, Generally something like a current 1:4 or 1:5 ratio. For every 1 rebel death, there is 4-5 CP deaths. The new rulings that block snitches from snitching on other rebel groups without an PK auth makes the life of a CP 10x harder as they can no longer deal with the Rebels without informants making a return, or hoping the rebel they capture has a PK auth on someone that is a Rebel/group.

Naturally one should be able to understand there is split within OWF leadership for how kevlar should be right now, and the same goes for GT because the old 25 armour points for our fellow low-ranking CPs (the majority of them) isn't working out and they have been set up to 50 as a point of stability, which I can see even some here seem to understand that yes, CPs having 25 kevlar for the low ranks is bad and just doubles the CPs death rate.

The aim at this point is to match CPs with the mid-tier rebel as stated in this thread, and I want to clarify, the 100 armor moment was an error. I thought it was fixed before going to Main, but turns out it was not yet resolved. The only unit that should have 100 kevlar in the eyes of the CP leadership is the RLs an Captains, both of which are rare units to see on the field, Captains extremely so and anyone in CP knows RLs can sometimes turn into Unicorns in terms of rarity.

Now to also clarify, this is the current views of the GT and OWF leads respectively:
- 25 is TOO low for the current state of the economy, 50 should be the lowest
- 100 is TOO much except for those in extremely high commanding positions such as RLs/CpTs, who are also rare and very small in number.
- OWF leads suggested buffing OTA Grunts to 100 as well just so RLs/CpTs aren't outliers and stronger than a Grunt.
- OWF leads also view Command should have 75 from the i1s-i2s and the rest 50. This falls in line with current vort balancing agreements to still 2 hit a CP. Though will make some riots no longer viable due to not being able to hit 100, so no increase will be gained.
- Part of the OWF Leadership specifically thinks the current situation warrants the Full MP7 and Riot gear loadouts for a time being as Rebels have been highly active, the Combine is going to shit both internally and externally and its the only reasonable level of response they can provide that isn't outright dropping OTA into the mix.

Overall, the 100 armor issue we found has now be fixed and the crafting recipes aligned (waiting for dev to be pushed to main again for that). But keep in mind discussions are still ongoing.

I'm personally fine with i2+ having 75. Buffing grunts isn't something we need though since they only deploy on infestation sweeps and if lucky run into at most a single scavenger or rebel...

MP7s for all units (bar recruits) is something I can live with, but it should be locked behind a training to make it more immersive in stead of it just being handed out. Riot armor for all cops though? Heck no.

 

[MrTuki]

most high-tier rebels are geared like a spike wall (75 armor, spas/rifle)

There is, tops, 5 rifles. And 6 heavy armors, most of them owned by a single group.

Out of, what, 60+ rebels/slummers that play the server? Not exactly a lot.

 

[Curbalas]

most high-tier rebels are geared like a spike wall (75 armor, spas/rifle)

High-tier rebels yes, and they don't match the heavy pulse shotgun even if they have 75 armor spas/rifle...

 

[Divine]

Spikewall is OTA, and therefore has 150 HP atop the 75 armor. 225 health pool, which is only three vortigaunt beams and can easily be depleted by incendiaries and good focused fire from pistols/SMGs. I was going to say "150 HP is better", but I'm not gonna lie the SPK should get 100 armor LOL.

^ Can we get that extra 25 armor (100 total) for SPK? @Ozzekiel @ClapTrap @Tsunami @Gameplay Team

 

[Bounter]

I am doing my best to put other handguns in circulation, but, well. It's hard due to the 600 morbillion MCP plants and snitches.

Issue is, if by "circulation" you mean BMD, then that's the first issue, most people don't know who, where and how BMDs work, and even if they do, they're still expensive as shit and you basically have to turn your credits into chips, and grind trash / credits 24/7 to get a reasonable amount. Especially since "expensive" stuff like alcohol, chemicals, charcoal, tools etc. can't be sold to Smugglers.

If by circulation you mean crafting, then we all know they would SUCK, like all scrap guns do.

 

[MrTuki]

Issue is, if by "circulation" you mean BMD, then that's the first issue, most people don't know who, where and how BMDs work, and even if they do, they're still expensive as shit and you basically have to turn your credits into chips, and grind trash / credits 24/7 to get a reasonable amount. Especially since "expensive" stuff like alcohol, chemicals, charcoal, tools etc. can't be sold to Smugglers.

If by circulation you mean crafting, then we all know they would SUCK, like all scrap guns do.

I mean by crafting. Im not BMD but I can make USPs.

Issue is all slummers are pussies and dont go explore the sewers enough so I never see them

 

[Bounter]

I mean by crafting. Im not BMD but I can make USPs.

Issue is all slummers are pussies and dont go explore the sewers enough so I never see them

You could also... GO into the slums, and stand by smuggler maybe, to offer stuff maybe in exchange, since again most people (even Rebs) ain't so hot in chips department.

 

[Stanford]

BMDs need to be found through connections. No self respecting BMD is going to advertise their services out in the open and get snitched out on by an informant. As for chips, slums should be getting more quests, or I'm going to be pissed with event team...

Also.... Expo's are a thing.... If someone plans on making a public one sometime soon.... Hm, actually... I'll be cooking something...

 

[Bounter]

BMDs need to be found through connections. No self respecting BMD is going to advertise their services out in the open and get snitched out on by an informant. As for chips, slums should be getting more quests, or I'm going to be pissed with event team...

Also.... Expo's are a thing.... If someone plans on making a public one sometime soon.... Hm, actually... I'll be cooking something...

Most people do not have said connections, and do not know those who HAVE them. I never met a single BmD on my previous char, especially with how low and bad rebel situation was on T7.

And expos are usually for Rebels who are kitted out so... You know, guns, armour etc. Most people dont have that, andthose who do, have lower tier stuff.

 

[Stanford]

Most people do not have said connections, and do not know those who HAVE them. I never met a single BmD on my previous char, especially with how low and bad rebel situation was on T7.

And expos are usually for Rebels who are kitted out so... You know, guns, armour etc. Most people dont have that, andthose who do, have lower tier stuff.

Im making an expo specifically tailored to this bounter. No gear required, easy way to make a good amount of chips, and BMDs are invited to make connections

S

Thread 'A City of Hollow Steel'

Apr 21, 2025

EXPEDITION INFO
Slowly, but surely, high grade materials such as steel have started to become more and more scarce with the efforts to rebuild city 24.
The Underground is slowly becoming more desperate for these materials so they may continue their production of BMD goods, and thus have called upon the slum dwellers and groups eager to earn an extra chip or two. Explore the stories of those who've spent their time in these parts, and uncover secrets untold.

You'll be transported by the Underground and given time to scavenge around the...​

• Stanford
• Replies: 44
• Forum: Event Archive

• 

 

[LyingFox]

Im making an expo specifically tailored to this bounter. No gear required, easy way to make a good amount of chips, and BMDs are invited to make connections

S

Thread 'A City of Hollow Steel'

Apr 21, 2025

EXPEDITION INFO
Slowly, but surely, high grade materials such as steel have started to become more and more scarce with the efforts to rebuild city 24.
The Underground is slowly becoming more desperate for these materials so they may continue their production of BMD goods, and thus have called upon the slum dwellers and groups eager to earn an extra chip or two. Explore the stories of those who've spent their time in these parts, and uncover secrets untold.

You'll be transported by the Underground and given time to scavenge around the...​

• Stanford
• Replies: 44
• Forum: Event Archive

• 

mfw BMD applications are non-existent

 

[NanCi_]

This would be a decent post if it wasn't for the fact that tukis group was shotcoppin CPs on a daily base to the point that CPs had to upgrade. Oh a CP is in the sewers forced to do a suicidal job? Lets attack him. Two CPs in the slum bar doing some roleplay? Lets attack him. The same gate being built for the 50th time? Lets blow it up x50 again. oooh yeah lets nerf CPs even though we are the reason this is happening.

 

[Marco]

My opinion has shifted on this topic, in that low to mid tier rebels should be in no way shape or form capable of 1v1'ing a cop at all, and that, the only actual threat to cops should be high-tier rebels.

As things are right now, we're geared to be equivalent to mid tier rebels, (50 armor junk weaponry) with i5-i1 having 50 armor and an SMG, and RL-CPT having 75 armor.

Understandably, this has had a massive impact on any shotcops, and even when officers deploy a lot of officers, we still barely win some engagements, and lose the most. For example,

The shotcop prior to August on the aftermath of Crash's capture ended up with multiple cops being downed, Despite a spikewall being present, and a Rank Leader.

Most, if not all of those rebels had 75 armor and an SMG, if not better, not to mention, they had a vortigaunt present.

Cops should be dominant in terms of equipment. The recent shotcop being a very clear view of not only our inadequacy in equipment, but in training as well. Something that can only get better with practice.

Anyhow, marco burger over...

 

[BrennenW05]

My opinion has shifted on this topic, in that low to mid tier rebels should be in no way shape or form capable of 1v1'ing a cop at all, and that, the only actual threat to cops should be high-tier rebels.

As things are right now, we're geared to be equivalent to mid tier rebels, (50 armor junk weaponry) with i5-i1 having 50 armor and an SMG, and RL-CPT having 75 armor.

Understandably, this has had a massive impact on any shotcops, and even when officers deploy a lot of officers, we still barely win some engagements, and lose the most. For example,

The shotcop prior to August on the aftermath of Crash's capture ended up with multiple cops being downed, Despite a spikewall being present, and a Rank Leader.

Most, if not all of those rebels had 75 armor and an SMG, if not better, not to mention, they had a vortigaunt present.

Cops should be dominant in terms of equipment. The recent shotcop being a very clear view of not only our inadequacy in equipment, but in training as well. Something that can only get better with practice.

Anyhow, marco burger over...

Wouldn't this just reinforce the sit and wait for expos mentality current rebels have. If even mid-tier rebels can't have a chance to win against cops, won't rebels just never do anything on main ever?

Also rebels shouldn't be punished for cops sucking at combat.

 

[MrTuki]

The recent shotcop being a very clear view of not only our inadequacy in equipment, but in training as well. Something that can only get better with practice.

As a vortigaunt that was part of the shotcop, all I can say is. You went in blind, you did not even use a scanner to check around and got ambushed by THREE vortigaunts and about six rebels that were VERY high tier and well equipped.

The tactics were... Off, very off. I saw more than half of them run away while the other half ran around the apartments like crazy taking potshots and anything they saw while they got surrounded from all sides.

It's not exactly a lack of equipment, cops can do great. But if half of your PT runs away and you have the situational awareness of an avocado, it is very hard.

 

[Marco]

It's not exactly a lack of equipment, cops can do great. But if half of your PT runs away and you have the situational awareness of an avocado, it is very hard.

Cops can't exactly do great against three vorts and six rebels with high tier equipment in literally any scenario, no matter how tactiful they are.

Wouldn't this just reinforce the sit and wait for expos mentality current rebels have. If even mid-tier rebels can't have a chance to win against cops, won't rebels just never do anything on main ever?

Also rebels shouldn't be punished for cops sucking at combat.

I feel like that cops are now forced to scale further if the balance team isn't going to act and limit these weapons from inflating the rebel economy.

Resistance shouldn't be defined as a shot cop, and doing something shouldn't be seen as a shotcop either. That's a bad mindset to have to be focused on eliminating one or the other. If you are a medium tier rebel, you shouldn't be expecting to shot cop on your own, infact... Shotcops should rarely happen at all.

Making a reference to HL2, the only time we see any rebel vs cop action is in the outlands, where there would be no rapid reinforcement.

To cope for this, alongside the long wait time by OTA responses, cops should be appropriately geared to deal with high-tier rebels. At least, the command units should be.

My proposed set of changes would be 50 armor for RCT to i4, with okay weaponry, this being USP 45s unless otherwise authorised for an MP7.

50 armor for an i3 with better weaponry for an MP7 or a Model 870 shotgun.

75 armor and a MP7/shotgun for i2s and above.

75 armor for RLs and a better shotgun (Spas-12) [which is what it is right now]

This barely equalises the playing field for high-tier rebels, and you're right, you probably would've still won, but it wouldn't have come as easily.



One thing I will like to mention, is that cops faced a massive nerf recently.

The entirety of riot gear was removed from the Civil Protection faction, meaning we no longer had the ability to gear up and face these high-tier rebels, forcing OTA deployments which mainly consists of already active rebel players or people that have little S2K experience.

That shit that happened? If that happened in HL2 there'd be fucking OTA everywhere. In HL2 in the starting chapters alone we saw a good 60 metrocops shooting gordon freeman before you even got to the canals.

Anyhow, that's my take, @Gameplay Team review pls ty official rank leader statement thank you

 

[ford-michigan]

Wouldn't this just reinforce the sit and wait for expos mentality current rebels have. If even mid-tier rebels can't have a chance to win against cops, won't rebels just never do anything on main ever?

Maybe the ones only doing shotcops should find something else to do rather than just run up and shooting then complaining that there is a response. Cut power lines, mail bomb, throw acid in loyalists' faces, blow a hole in a wall, do something other than shooting and then getting nowhere.

 

[Marco]

^^

Yes, you can bomb combine infrastructure and according to the rules we literally can not repair it for a set amount of time.