The Milkman
Radio Bob Approved
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2021
- Messages
- 548
- Thread Author
- #1
we all know the stigma around looting overwatch soldiers. Combine players will call you a script whore, staff will say 'erm all of the soldier's gear was destroyed on death', and if you're lucky, Gamemasters will give you a smidgen of loot.
But the fact of the matter is...
Rebel characters do not have infinite ammo or medical supplies. Gaining these items already takes an absurd amount of time to even commit an attack on Overwatch or Civil Protection. Gaining loot from fallen enemies is a vital part of not only re-arming yourself after an operation, but also having extra things to hand over to aspiring rebels.
#1: rebels need loot in the moment.
During massive fights, the amount of ammo and medical supplies used can often mean that several members of your assault are left with no ammo or medical supplies left for the inevitable next wave of un-ending non-characters that just want you dead. If rebels can quickly gain extra ammo for themselves after a skirmish, then they can continue whatever it is they're doing without having to run away and grind for 12 hours to regain their ammo reserves. And GMs refuse to give out loot until the entire fight is already over.
#2: the GM system isn't great.
The GM system relies entirely on some gamemaster simply deciding what to give you. This can feel rather unfair because there are times where you've killed over a dozen overwatch soldiers and are left with 2-3 guns and hardly even enough ammo/magazines/meds/etc to make up for the fight and to compensate those who fought with you. And depending on the GM, you might not get any weapons at all because of 'oh you realistically couldn't have looted them!' An actual mechanical system will be consistent and thus feel more fair - and actually take into account how many Overwatch soldiers you've killed. And there's no need for 'erm you couldnt have looted them realistically!' because looting an actual item bag takes precious time that could get you killed if done during the fight, so that point is moot.
#3: rebels actually get rewarded for winning.
Willard has an odd fixation on not allowing rebels to be rewarded for them winning a confrontation. Often, they see rebels wanting items that are essential to them fighting the Combine as script whoring or bad roleplay. In reality, the rebel grind was DESIGNED around needing countless items, so to expect rebels to perform some sort of operation and get nothing back from their win - thus forcing them to participate in the boring, and frankly non-roleplay mechanic of looting and crafting... and then be confused when they hardly ever want to do anything, is frankly ridiculous.
Overwatch players can do a command like /setloot or something and pick their weapon and/or rank. So, '/setloot smg ows' will, instead of dropping their actual inventory, will drop a specific set of slightly randomized items. So, a rebel who kills them might get an SMG, 1-3 magazines, 1-4 SMG boxes, and a random grenade and some sort of combine health item. '/setloot pulse ows' would be the same, only it would drop a biolocked AR2. '/setloot pulse ord' would drop an ordinal rifle and slightly more loot since an ordinal is slightly more important.
I have no idea how realistic of a thing this is to code, but I can't think of a different system beyond forcing overwatch players to actually watch how much they bring with them. And if you don't want so many AR2s in the rebel economy, then start using SMGs. The MP7 is literally the primary weapon of combine soldiers in hl2, not every single one of them has an ar2.
^ this was their loot
Looks like a lot, right? And for those who have attempted to gain ota loot before, it is. This is probably the most loot rebels have ever gained from GMs. So let me tell you why THIS isn't even really enough.
Ignoring that if ota inventories were able to be looted that this loot would be tripled, let me explain...
The group had maybe around 9 rebels including 2 vorts. And this group wants to properly reward everyone for their sacrifice in time, items, and the general risk. If the organizers of the attack didn't want any of this for themselves, they could maybe give out the three pulse weapons to three members of 3 separate groups involved. But what about the others? Is a grenade and a breaching charge really fair compensation? Or a medkit and a combine filter? Hell, the guns themselves aren't all that great because you have enough ammo for, what, a single fight before it's just a glorified paper weight and you have to kill even more combine soldiers for more ammo (if you're lucky and GMs give you any...)
Keep in mind that this is the most generous loot that has ever been handed out after an operation and even then, though it might be a good haul to a single group, it really isn't much in the grand scheme of things.
But the fact of the matter is...
REBELS NEED LOOT.
Now I know some of you that only play this game on easy mode and play Combine-sided factions might be having a breakdown over this notion, but it's true.
Rebel characters do not have infinite ammo or medical supplies. Gaining these items already takes an absurd amount of time to even commit an attack on Overwatch or Civil Protection. Gaining loot from fallen enemies is a vital part of not only re-arming yourself after an operation, but also having extra things to hand over to aspiring rebels.
Why not rely on GMs?
although it is true that GMs will give you loot after the battle, there are several issues regarding this.
#1: rebels need loot in the moment.
During massive fights, the amount of ammo and medical supplies used can often mean that several members of your assault are left with no ammo or medical supplies left for the inevitable next wave of un-ending non-characters that just want you dead. If rebels can quickly gain extra ammo for themselves after a skirmish, then they can continue whatever it is they're doing without having to run away and grind for 12 hours to regain their ammo reserves. And GMs refuse to give out loot until the entire fight is already over.
#2: the GM system isn't great.
The GM system relies entirely on some gamemaster simply deciding what to give you. This can feel rather unfair because there are times where you've killed over a dozen overwatch soldiers and are left with 2-3 guns and hardly even enough ammo/magazines/meds/etc to make up for the fight and to compensate those who fought with you. And depending on the GM, you might not get any weapons at all because of 'oh you realistically couldn't have looted them!' An actual mechanical system will be consistent and thus feel more fair - and actually take into account how many Overwatch soldiers you've killed. And there's no need for 'erm you couldnt have looted them realistically!' because looting an actual item bag takes precious time that could get you killed if done during the fight, so that point is moot.
#3: rebels actually get rewarded for winning.
Willard has an odd fixation on not allowing rebels to be rewarded for them winning a confrontation. Often, they see rebels wanting items that are essential to them fighting the Combine as script whoring or bad roleplay. In reality, the rebel grind was DESIGNED around needing countless items, so to expect rebels to perform some sort of operation and get nothing back from their win - thus forcing them to participate in the boring, and frankly non-roleplay mechanic of looting and crafting... and then be confused when they hardly ever want to do anything, is frankly ridiculous.
how to implement?
seeing as how the Overwatch leads simply won't force their faction members to not carry absurd amounts of gear on their person, I suggest some sort of system.
Overwatch players can do a command like /setloot or something and pick their weapon and/or rank. So, '/setloot smg ows' will, instead of dropping their actual inventory, will drop a specific set of slightly randomized items. So, a rebel who kills them might get an SMG, 1-3 magazines, 1-4 SMG boxes, and a random grenade and some sort of combine health item. '/setloot pulse ows' would be the same, only it would drop a biolocked AR2. '/setloot pulse ord' would drop an ordinal rifle and slightly more loot since an ordinal is slightly more important.
I have no idea how realistic of a thing this is to code, but I can't think of a different system beyond forcing overwatch players to actually watch how much they bring with them. And if you don't want so many AR2s in the rebel economy, then start using SMGs. The MP7 is literally the primary weapon of combine soldiers in hl2, not every single one of them has an ar2.
for example...
A gaggle of rebels recently assaulted the ota checkpoint in the outlands. During this, they managed to kill around 10-12(?) combine soldiers and each time had their corpses around for long enough to properly loot.
A gaggle of rebels recently assaulted the ota checkpoint in the outlands. During this, they managed to kill around 10-12(?) combine soldiers and each time had their corpses around for long enough to properly loot.
^ this was their loot
Looks like a lot, right? And for those who have attempted to gain ota loot before, it is. This is probably the most loot rebels have ever gained from GMs. So let me tell you why THIS isn't even really enough.
Ignoring that if ota inventories were able to be looted that this loot would be tripled, let me explain...
The group had maybe around 9 rebels including 2 vorts. And this group wants to properly reward everyone for their sacrifice in time, items, and the general risk. If the organizers of the attack didn't want any of this for themselves, they could maybe give out the three pulse weapons to three members of 3 separate groups involved. But what about the others? Is a grenade and a breaching charge really fair compensation? Or a medkit and a combine filter? Hell, the guns themselves aren't all that great because you have enough ammo for, what, a single fight before it's just a glorified paper weight and you have to kill even more combine soldiers for more ammo (if you're lucky and GMs give you any...)
Keep in mind that this is the most generous loot that has ever been handed out after an operation and even then, though it might be a good haul to a single group, it really isn't much in the grand scheme of things.
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