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Pick-Pocket Powergaming

Alfie

Radio Bob Approved
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
145
Greetings Everyone! Trap here once again with something new for us all!

Alright so basically. This is quite border-line embarrassing having to discuss this on the forums. Why can't any In-Character interactions happen without LOOC discussion or taken to the Forums. Especially in a clear case like this. It doesn't get more clear than this. I'll run-down the this situation in my own words. You can always check the logs but you can also speak to Mind Gamez and Wraygun as they are the main people involved. Either way! Here's the run-down off it.


Alright so! I wanted to try something new, something fresh, something that is risk-taking and unique. Therefor i wanted to try Pick-PocketRP. This got inspired by the amount of people i've seen try to outright tear a backpack off a CP and run away with it or try to nick a gun when it's holstered. And the results always end up in failure. Therefor i decided a new strategy. The pick-pocket strategy! I was laying in-motion, waiting for the perfect moment as i was walking around with one of my characters. Scouting out for lone cp's standing around.

I eventually spotted one by the name of Wraygun. And this was fully planned out perfectly. I manage to sneak up behind one of the Officers at pitch black darkness as it was 4:30 in game. I was examning what could be stolen such as "If he had an open satchel? Any unleft-backpockets to rummage through or an Unholstered 9mm. Here's the /Me done --->


* Mark Watson An ordinary male approches from behind the unsuspecting Officer, taking the opportunity as a resonable demise of pick-pocketing. Attempting to slick is hands around any un-left backpockets or satchels. Perhaps even the possibility of an unholstered 9mm?

*' The pistol is tightly-clipped to his holster, having an entire slide wrapped over the grip of the fire-arm; it'd take some effort to un-clip the weapon easily. The officer wouldn't wear any bags or satchels whatsoever.

He then wanted to roll if i was succesfull with this entire pick-pocket situation and we did. And i came ontop with winning the roll.

*** C24:RL.VICTOR-0 has rolled 32 out of 100.
[LOOC] C24:RL.VICTOR-0: Roll?
[LOOC] Mark Watson: xd
*** Mark Watson has rolled 37 out of 100.

He then force drops the 9mm gun on the ground even though i didn't get a chance to /Me "what i actually sucessfully pick-pocketed". So, i assume he was okay with me grabbing the gun since he just threw it on the ground without much effort. I eventually picked it up and was going to perform a /Me where i was sneakily making my escape. At which point he somehow does a /Me notice. And whips out a MP7 and was literally about to gun me down. I was literally just "smh" the entire moment as i had quite literally won the roll, and it was perfectly planned out by all factors included. I even got the jump on the guy from behind. Meaning it's quite the p2l situation. But i suppose he wanted the drop on me instead even though i won the roll. I tried to discuss with him that "You cannot do that, i won the roll and the pick-pocketing was sucessfull". He can't just suddently turn around and then powergame that he saw me. Even though i literally won by all factors included. What was even the point of /roll'ing if he was going to notice? That's literally the whole point about pick-pocketing. You're not suppose to notice. But i guess he wasn't having that and just decided to powergame and throw me against the wall without much context.

It was taken LOOC with the admin "Mind gamez" and the only deffense he had was "Haha, i'll notice you uncliping the gun from my holster" even though there as no /me displaying the possibility or chance of being spotted if i was going for the gun. (Which he force dropped i wanna mention once again.). Mind Gamez wanted to "Re-Do" the whole sitaution which doesn't make sense at all. As the only thing that shouldn't have happened is the Officer noticing. Especially after lossing a roll and by the "Enviroment" factors provided.
 
Oh yes! This thing also got voided. So, basically. i risked my characters life and possibility of getting pk'ed. And literally gaining nothing. I swear to God that if i lost that roll. He would have gunned me down like a sack o potatoes. But as soon as nothing goes the Cp factions way they either Re-do it. Void it or somehow they come ontop of everybody else. This is just a from of Loopholing, risking pk's if lost but voided if sucesfull. I literally just risked my characters life for nothing and possibility of Pk. And got voided because he didn't want his gun nicked even though i won by all factors included. Smh, this has to be stopped.
 
Hello, I was the admin 'Mind Games' who dealt with the situation.

In my opinion, Wraygun and you were at fault for the escalation of the situation, it shouldn't have gone this far. I will now explain the situation on how I think it all went:
* You wanted to pickpocket a CP, an RL actually, one of the finest of the officers you can encounter on the streets.
* You both agree on a roll, Wraygun thought you were going to try stealing the gun but you wanted to choose what you wanted to steal. (On your side with this one.)
* You won the roll, Wraygun immediately dropped his gun thinking you wanted to steal it. (His mistake but a mistake nonetheless)
* CP also noticed it being stolen which is not expected for a successful pickpocketing attempt but doesn't make sense in a way of stealing the gun of one of the finest CP officers in the field without them noticing. You need to be a real ninja to actually pull that off since CP officers are trained to keep their guns away from the civilians at all times.

At that point, it would be very easy to say 'I meant to check your inventory, I didn't specifically mean to steal your gun.' and I am sure Wraygun would say 'Ah okay, give me the gun back and I will let you steal something else.' But you didn't.

After a while I came and investigated the situation and concluded that you shouldn't be allowed to steal the gun of a CP from his holster without him being noticed for two reasons, first, you were dealing with an RL, and second, it's a VERY low effort attempt to get your hands on a gun. Imagine me allowing you to do this, how could we stop throwaways from stealing guns from others because they rolled higher? They will point fingers at you, saying how you were allowed and they are not.

And after that, I gave you a choice to turn back to the point where you rolled higher and were going to steal something but haven't decided yet. I told you that you can steal anything small from his inventory without him noticing but you were against that by saying something like 'He threw his gun during the sitaution, it means he is doing P2L, I want the gun because he accepted defeat at the time already!'. To me, this argument doesn't make any sense but I wonder what other admins think.
 
* You wanted to pickpocket a CP, an RL actually, one of the finest of the officers you can encounter on the streets.
* You both agree on a roll, Wraygun thought you were going to try stealing the gun but you wanted to choose what you wanted to steal. (On your side with this one.)
* You won the roll, Wraygun immediately dropped his gun thinking you wanted to steal it. (His mistake but a mistake nonetheless)
* CP also noticed it being stolen which is not expected for a successful pickpocketing attempt but doesn't make sense in a way of stealing the gun of one of the finest CP officers in the field without them noticing. You need to be a real ninja to actually pull that off since CP officers are trained to keep their guns away from the civilians at all times.

From what you've provided. It basically just leads to one single argument saying. "He's a RL therefor you cannot steal the gun". There was no Citizens around, it was pitch black, and there was no way for him to see me. Why should he then focus on his gun being stolen at that point? It would have been a different story if he perhaps was surrounding by Citizens interacting with him or in a "High alert" state. But the fact it was so perfectly planned out, it really shouldn't have ended up in him noticing. And i bet RL won't keep watch on their gun 24/7 in such a peaceful moment he had. Pretty sure he did /Actstand 1-4 aswell he didn't even have his hands near it. He is still partly human though, and humans do errors.

The argument doesn't really get stronger by the fact that he quite literally rolled himself, and lost. And tossed the gun at me like he was begging me to pick it up. Resulting in me generally speaking winning the situation... He can't just /me "noticed" like he has some spider-man tinggling sensation. It was a fair situation by all means, Pitch black enviroment, unsuspected, p2l, and won the roll. You gotta give Citizens a chance, especially in a truely win sitaution like this.

Won roll = Gets noticed?
Lost roll = Gets noticed?

What was even the roll about then lol?
 
I suggest making a forum PM and invite Wraygun (and whoever else) was involved. And the CM's/PK Lead.
 
Won roll = Gets noticed?
Lost roll = Gets noticed?

What was even the roll about then lol?
I totally agree with you here but for the reasons I gave you, I couldn't let you take his gun and leave unnoticed with it. It was his mistake of accepting a roll about presumably stealing a holstered gun. I provided you a perfectly reasonable option but you rejected it as well, that's why I voided the entire thing. You started with 'He forced me to steal his gun while I wanted to steal something else.' and went on with 'He was willing to give his weapon, why can't I get it without being noticed.', that is a big red flag of your intent to me.
 
I provided you a perfectly reasonable option but you rejected it as well, that's why I voided the entire thing. You started with 'He forced me to steal his gun while I wanted to steal something else.' and went on with 'He was willing to give his weapon, why can't I get it without being noticed.', that is a big red flag of your intent to me.

You provided me with a perfectly resonable option? Like what? Re-doing the situation where i pick-pocket a rotten bandage that has been sitting in his backpocket for the entire launch? Look, he was okay with force dropping the 9mm gun to me, he lost the roll, you can't just re-do the whole thing and let me choose something else because he wasn't okay with lossing a the 9mm gun. He shouldn't have pulled the "I'm RL, i can sense you pick-pocketing" card after lossing a roll. The only thing that should be re-done is me making my escape uncarved. Without him powergaming that he somehow knew his shit was stolen.

You should reward strategic and resonable attempts of RP'ing with Officers. Instead of Citizens doing the typical /me "Openly attempts to grab gun from officer". Cut Citizen faction some slack and stop voiding/re-doing anything you don't find pleasing.
 


You really gona go randomly search for some video on youtube about gun holstering? What has Real Life state Police have to do about Combine Regim? I'm not suprised if the holsters are cheaply made for Cp's to save on resources. You argue about a gun holster but you don't question a CP being able to tank 10 hits to the head in TBC? His /me "literally mentioned that it would easily be unclipped". Along with him handing it over to me like a sack o potatoes. Just accept the fact that Citizens got the win this time.

I won the roll, I got the jump on him from behind, it was pitch dark outside, and he was simply p2l. The suddent /me "notice" was powergamey within the guidelines & rules. Winning a roll about sucesfully pick-pocketing yet he ends up noticing. Isn't pick-pocketing about not getting noticed? But i guess he didn't really want to think about that, as he had already made up his mind of noticing me even if i won the roll or not.

Think about it this way. I attempt to dodge a hefty stunstick blow to the right side of my head. And we roll. And i somehow won but the stunstick still hits me lmao.
 
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Closing this complaint.

Stealing a gun from Civil Protection isn't easy and isn't as simple as sneaking up behind them and taking them. Holsters are designed to work against this and taking a gun would be noticed 100% of the time. This is not something we can allow either, making it easy to sneak on a CP to steal their weapon would be silly and making weapon gathering super easy since its just /me sneaks up on cp and take gun yes. /roll

Thats silly. Cannot allow it I am afraid.
 
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