Players who don't play citizens, what would get you to play them more often?

[Goulashnikov]

At the moment, I am writing a bit of a conceptual theory for how best to operate the HL2RP framework, using over a decade of experience I have in being a member of multiple communities, both as a player and as a staff member. While this design theory isn't specifically for Willard Networks, I do believe its the community that has the best chance of actually successfully implementing any ideas I throw out into the ether.

One of the ideas I've had is to essentially pivot the Citizen faction away from being the "starter" and almost seemingly non-aligned faction of the server, and instead have the Citizen faction become the foundation on which the other factions are sustained and enriched. Willard Networks has made relatively great strides in this already, with things such as City politics, non-CWU run shops, and having dedicated game masters and event managers. However, the citizen faction still suffers from being a mostly undesirable faction to play for the majority of the server, with players rushing to either join a Rebel faction or become Loyalists and join the CWU/CMU/Government/Conscripts. This leaves a major gap in the server, as run-of-the-mill average citizens become increasingly scarce.

Part of the concept is the framework of the "Server Triad," a very basic design philosophy that prioritizes creating the majority of systems and storylines in an HL2RP server with Citizens in mind first, and then figuring out how the Citizen faction can then fuel the system/storyline for the other two major factions. In the spoiler are a couple of very basic graphics elaborating further, but that's not what this thread is about.

Spoiler: Graphics

Here is just one example of how this works, specifically how the Citizen faction fuels CvR gameplay.

Even if an HL2RP server is run with the Citizen faction taking center stage, I can imagine a majority of players will still find the faction incredibly boring and unfulfilling, leading to the server collapsing as the most fundamental building block of said server grows scarce.

While I have ideas on how to combat this, I am curious what others have to say.
If you're a player who does not enjoy playing the Citizen faction, what could be done to the faction to increase the likelihood of you becoming a more regular player? Preferably, things that can be controlled for, like more mechanics or jobs, and not things like "better roleplayers."

 

[GopnikPizzafox]

I think the problem is that, with the way that things are currently set up, you can't really be an ordinary citizen without seeking employment in a Union, Ministry, the CSF or a store, since there really isn't anything from citizens to be doing other than interacting with one another outside of the work they do in those jobs. Worse still, is living as an underclass citizen and spending all your time in the Slums, where there's even less consistency in terms of what can be done aside from cooperating with rebels when they bother to actually interact with slummers, and even then that's a far more player-led initiative than life in the city where most events for citizens are done thanks to the work of the CWU/CMU/Conscripts/Government etc. If there were avenues of employment for citizens that didn't involve having to cooperate with rebel or criminal groups for slummers or whitelisted Loyalist factions for those living in the city proper, more people would be okay to play as citizens if they had something to work for that isn't just joining one of these factions or finding a job within these various spaces who, as I said, are basically the only employers around, generally speaking, and thus drive events a lot too.

Who runs stores? Citizens. Who provides the stock for the stores and produces goods for the stock that stores use? The CWU.

Who organizes labor in the city, making up most of the work that citizens get to do? The CWU.

Who organizes initiatives that citizen players can participate in when possible? Sometimes the CCA or other government institutions and specific Loyalist politicians and the like.

Who provides items for Rebel groups? BMDs, otherwise they grind for scripts and craft things themselves, and are not incentivized to rely on citizens to provide for them entirely.

It seems to me that the system is simply set up in such a way that fundamentally encourages people to branch off from citizen to other kind of work when they can in order to avoid being stuck in purgatory essentially.

And for the record, I support the general idea of what you're trying to do, since I do think that, given the nature of the conflict between the Combine and the Rebels, the Citizens should indeed be seen as arguably one of the most precious resources in the conflict by both sides and both sides should take a more active role in influencing the opinions of citizen chars and relying on their support more to be able to engage in their conflict, as real life insurgencies and the like often function in this manner as well. I'm just not entirely sure how to go about it given the way things are set up currently.

 

[Woundedwaffle]

All of these are things I want really but some of the biggest issues is that there's nothing to do as a civilian. Unions are annoying and unintutive to apply for and try to get into, credits eventually feel useless unless you're trying to make a loyalist apartment or have some very niche cash sink.

Credits should be more useful and powerful, I've seen people with hundreds if not thousands with nothing to spend it on or do.

Non-workshift jobs, or even workshift jobs that are able to be done safely and easily without CWU presence just to facilitate more RP and things to do. Have a row of fabricators with an automatic inventory checker or something.

Smuggling is USELESS and I have been begging for better smuggling forever now. The entire skill tree is pointless, and I want more player agency when it comes to illegal, or even legal but exotic items. A smuggler isn't always selling contraband, they just sell things people want, no matter how mundane it may be. You want this rare and exotic hat? Better have a high smuggling skill on a Thursday.

Stores hire craftsmen to make their goods is great, or some type of this. There needs to be more dependence on the logistics of the city so that way it's something that can be controlled by the Combine, and hindered by the rebels. Something like Synapse and their logistics may be neat, just more refined and less- simplified.

On map missions that don't require GM's would be fucking amazing, just to give people *SOMETHING* to do with some level of pay especially for self RP. Imagine getting a group together and rping it out without having to rely on an actual GM. My motto should always be for Willard, and why I liked the server, the less forced GM intervention? The better. GM's should be creative outlets, not forced to do the menial bullshit.

 

[Rabid]

The problem with CitizenRP is that, by nature, people want to get to the more interesting parts - whether that be siding with The Combine or Resistance. Being an unaligned citizen who doesn't seek conflict or anything risky is, by nature, just not fun.

 

[Janek]

I can really only see one way forward, and that would be to take a large amount of inspiration from DarkRP. Obviously not in the RP aspect, but more so the functionality that comes with it. E.g. deliveries between the CWU and various stores for payment. Regular jobs and quotas for cleaning the city. Etc. Maybe far-fetched, but it'd be awesome for citizens to be given a system, which allows them to be more autonomous(?) in the work areas

 

[Goulashnikov]

Worse still, is living as an underclass citizen and spending all your time in the Slums, where there's even less consistency in terms of what can be done aside from cooperating with rebels when they bother to actually interact with slummers

The fact that the rebel faction in HL2RP quite literally never has to interact with the Citizen faction to survive is one of the largest issues in the game mode. Actual resistance movements have deep ties with civilians, using them as a financial and material support base. In the Server Triad example I provided above, the Rebel faction would rely on the Citizen faction as the easiest and most plentiful source of both cash and crafting materials, either by cooperating with sympahtetic players, robbing them, or even better, spending more time disguised as citizens and doing jobs within the legal white market to gather funds and/or secure materials.

But at the moment, it is far too difficult to do the above. Searches allow CivPro to see your entire inventory, and unless you somehow convince the CivPro player to OOCly play along with your smuggling RP (something that is not currently codified to my knowledge), you still open yourself up to future metagaming since the CivPro player still sees your contraband and has all your character's information. The Combine faction is also partially at fault for this being the case, with cameras that instantly alert the CivPro of your location if you're BOL or an AC, to every single CWU shift ending with a full-body cavity search. This discourages rebel players from interacting with the wider city. Is this level of paranoia and surveillance from the Combine sensible for the lore? Yes. Does it completely stifle RP at the larger expense of the server? Absolutely.

With how things are, it's much easier and safer to just box/trash farm in the slums for your materials and cash than attempt to interact with the Citizen faction.

I cannot comment on whether the Combine faction even really needs to interact with the Citizen faction, as I'm not sure how much, if any, of the materials necessary for the faction's gameplay (uniforms, electronics like PDAs, weapons) are produced by the CWU or if they're just spawned in via an NPC like most servers. If anyone knows the answer, please let me know.

On map missions that don't require GM's would be fucking amazing, just to give people *SOMETHING* to do with some level of pay especially for self RP. Imagine getting a group together and rping it out without having to rely on an actual GM. My motto should always be for Willard, and why I liked the server, the less forced GM intervention? The better. GM's should be creative outlets, not forced to do the menial bullshit.

I can really only see one way forward, and that would be to take a large amount of inspiration from DarkRP. Obviously not in the RP aspect, but more so the functionality that comes with it. E.g. deliveries between the CWU and various stores for payment. Regular jobs and quotas for cleaning the city. Etc. Maybe far-fetched, but it'd be awesome for citizens to be given a system, which allows them to be more autonomous(?) in the work areas

This is generally what I was thinking. Perhaps not as easy as DarkRP, where you can just jump from job to job at will, but a job you can apply for ICly that does not require a whitelist or insane amounts of setup that your character works for the foreseeable future.

Without explanation, this will sound dumb but:

Spoiler: For Example

>The Civil Workers Union hires several Sanitation Workers.
>You, as a non-CWU faction member, can apply ICly to do this job.
>You're given a uniform or an armband, and this job is added to your citizen profile info.
>From there, you're able to clock in at any point and begin disposing of the trash piles around the city.
>You bring the trash to the CWU warehouse
>after which it can be destroyed via the incinerator during a workshift
>OR!!!
>Keep the most valuable trash for yourself to strip down for valuable components to sell to the rebel faction
>Clock out and return your uniform/armband to the CWU HQ.

I specify clocking in and out for the simple reason that, in my mind, its better to have the character be paid for time spent working and not amount of trash collected, that way it encourages the player to spend their time writing out /me's instead of spriting around the map, trashfarming in order to get X credits as fast as possible. And even if it seems like this job is still too DarkRP for the server, understand that more players on the Citizen faction at a time means more for the CivPro, CMU, and CCA to do, more people who are likely going to visit stores after their shift, and a larger audience for events that may occur while they're working.

The problem with CitizenRP is that, by nature, people want to get to the more interesting parts - whether that be siding with The Combine or Resistance. Being an unaligned citizen who doesn't seek conflict or anything risky is, by nature, just not fun.

And that's the question of the day: how do we make it fun?

 

[Ansty]

I feel like an Universal shared currency for both the Combine and the Rebels could be nice. Atm Rebels have no reason to care for the City since Willard elected to have a separate currency for both sides. As such there is nothing to gain from it.

Don't get rid of the NPC smugglers completely but make it so if you work a legal job in the city as a shopkeeper or similar you can earn significantly more then just turning in trash to the smuggler all day.

 

[GopnikPizzafox]

I cannot comment on whether the Combine faction even really needs to interact with the Citizen faction, as I'm not sure how much, if any, of the materials necessary for the faction's gameplay (uniforms, electronics like PDAs, weapons) are produced by the CWU or if they're just spawned in via an NPC like most servers. If anyone knows the answer, please let me know.

Well, as I said, stores sell stock that's restocked and made by the CWU to my knowledge, but Civil Protection and the OTA have their own inventories and vendors to pick from. The items that Civil Protection can use still cost money though (a lot of them do, at least), including bullets, and aside from credits they get from rations (including wages) and credits they get from supervising workshifts, their only way to make money is to charge citizens for violations, which can encourage some of them to try and seek out people to dig at for minor violations so they can make some extra cash on the side, or else try to engage in some corruption to help instead. The OTA, of course, don't pay for anything and have their own isolated vendor and inventory that they use themselves.

So, CivPro's interactions with regular citizens are limited to workshift supervision or otherwise just charging them for violations or offering workdesk jobs for them sometimes or engaging in some corruption RP for their own gain, while having little incentive to interact with them much beyond that. They're designed in such a way to be a generally antagonistic force to the citizens and kind of have their own interests as well, basically.

 

[Divine]

Not getting shot for wearing an armband sounds pretty cool.

 

[nora]

hard to play citizen when both sides are just itching for an opportunity to kill you for almost zero reason. rebels decide to wipe out half the server because they're bored so in response civpro toggles ajw and brutalizes literally anyone who tries to roleplay, no matter how inconsequential it is. can you really blame someone if they'd rather not play citizen if their loop is stand around > do script workshift > get yelled at > get killed because a rebel / cop was bored

 

[Bounter]

Issue with for instance wanting Citizens to smuggle and supply is that you need MONEY AND SUPPLIES FOR IT. The only ones who really have that are Loyalists and CWU / CMU.

Non-Affiliated citizens are kinda broke. And how different is Smuggling with rebels to... Trading with them in slums already? Especially since they aint getting guns for them either. Like, how and from where?