Quality of Life Upgrades MEGATHREAD - V1

[HOKI]

I think the strawmen of “clogging chat” and “no RP” are unfounded. It’s only an anecdote, but the server that I attribute this automation feature to (and many other automated things) has roleplay quality far exceeding any other server I’ve played on. RP quality falls on the playerbase, and adding fundamentals to the schema will entice people to focus on actually developing a character and not spending 10 minutes writing how they yelp in pain when being re-educated. Other automated /me examples could include:

Falling over/going unconscious during combat
Nervous tics on a timer for certain drugs or disabilities
Hitting a fleeing citizenwith a stunstick
Equipping a weapon from inventory (could be visual only so it couldn’t be metagamed through walls)

Instead of having to type a command, interactive HUD elements could allow you to inspect characters for injuries (depending on skill it may fail), tie people up, frisk, etc. Put it in a menu so new players don’t have to learn 26 different chat commands.

Definitely agree with the nervous tics etc when drugged. Its better than just having "This person is clearly high"

 

[Rabid]

RP quality falls on the playerbase, and adding fundamentals to the schema will entice people to focus on actually developing a character and not spending 10 minutes writing how they yelp in pain when being re-educated.

"If we just had 'x' we could focus more on our characters..." is a crutch people who are more interested in scripts or fucking about pull when they're trying to find a justification for why they're not bothering to actually roleplay. You can't seriously think that having to actually interact with people is the reason people aren't developing their characters?

Nothing annoys me more than when I'm actually trying to engage with someone only to be met with "whats the command to say my CID/name????" or "whats the command to do 'x'?" because people are so unused to actually having to type things and engage on most servers.

 

[verTix]

Nothing annoys me more than when I'm actually trying to engage with someone only to be met with "whats the command to say my CID/name????" or "whats the command to do 'x'?" because people are so unused to actually having to type things and engage on most servers.

You don't have to type in immense detail to be engaged. That is my precise argument. HL2RP is an ever-changing medium, and the elitist mindset and conservatism is what drives new players away.

I have no problem with text RP and am more than capable of doing it. But Willard is not built around that idea. Very few servers are. (Plus, the best RP experiences I've ever had have been on servers with excellent automation so that the staff team could focus on the story.)

There is a very good reason that public servers with little or no scripting that promise "awesome RP freedom" die within two weeks. New players are not looking to type everything out anymore. That is not what this medium is for. You have a 3D space to RP in. Use it. You may not like it. I may not like it. But it's the truth. Public servers can no longer stick to the "old ways" and survive.

Move to a private server or another game, adapt to the change, or die.

 

[coolbloxxie]

(Plus, the best RP experiences I've ever had have been on servers with excellent automation so that the staff team could focus on the story.)

the best rp experiences i've ever had are on servers with almost no plugins whatsoever, because the server isn't oriented around the development, but rather the story. both of these servers were public, both of these servers had only one developer or none at all, both were 2019 and 2021, and both averaged 15-30 players at their peak. i saw both of these servers from around 2 days after beginning through to their end, and they are the most memorable, most important experiences that have molded the way i roleplay.

what you're asking for isn't an RP, it's an RPG. while willard may advertise itself as an RPG for it's stats and crafting and turn based combat and whatever else, but until the RP part is what you'd expect to see in WoW, then it's still an RP and not an RPG.

New players are not looking to type everything out anymore. That is not what this medium is for. You have a 3D space to RP in. Use it. You may not like it. I may not like it. But it's the truth. Public servers can no longer stick to the "old ways" and survive.

you're right: we have a 3d space to RP in. therefore, why should we bother having /me's for these actions at all? a person falls over, you can see them falling over, do you need to /me that? you shoot a gun, the gun shoots, do you need to /me that? an explosion happens, killing three people, should any of them get to /me that? you may not like it, i may not like it, but it's the truth. just because it's there, doesn't mean we have to use it.

this is an entirely unrelated conversation in a suggestion thread about qol. there's nothing to gain from this conversation aside from our own egos. let's drop it here

 

[verTix]

this is an entirely unrelated conversation in a suggestion thread about qol.

This is just wrong. All of the original QoL suggestions could be roleplayed. I could just RP my limb damage or put a different haircut in my description. Does that make those suggestions invalid? If not, why is the line drawn at automated /mes or an interaction menu?

there's nothing to gain from this conversation aside from our own egos. let's drop it here

My point is that text RP conservatives and RP elitists can move the goalposts around forever in an effort to avoid change for the better.

 

[Rabid]

My point is that text RP conservatives and RP elitists can move the goalposts around forever in an effort to avoid change for the better.

You're hardly going to promote roleplay when trying to RP certain things is just going to get an automated command-generated /me spat back out at you. The more shit that gets automated the less reason you have to engage.

Automation is handy in certain instances but not in all of them.

Public servers can no longer stick to the "old ways" and survive.

Which is funny because that's exactly what WN is doing at its core.

S2K with extra steps and a skill points system doesn't solve the underlying problems and complaints about cops, rebels, RP quality and a dead city from a split playerbase that I saw five years ago when I got back into the Gmod scene.

WN is going to survive by catering to the players it has to hand, the people who're here for roleplay, not the people who may poke in and say "hello" on the forums, play once then leave. Despite the influx of new faces how many have stuck around? Not enough to have any sort of impact on the nightly average, if servertracker is to be believed.

 

[verTix]

You're hardly going to promote roleplay when trying to RP certain things is just going to get an automated command-generated /me spat back out at you. The more shit that gets automated the less reason you have to engage.

Automation is handy in certain instances but not in all of them.

It's genuinely not as jarring as you might think. And yes, not everything should be automated. But this arbitrary line of "we can't automate this but we can automate that" splits the playerbase even more than going full automation or having zero scripts.

Which is funny because that's exactly what WN is doing at its core.

S2K with extra steps and a skill points system doesn't solve the underlying problems and complaints about cops, rebels, RP quality and a dead city from a split playerbase that I saw five years ago when I got back into the Gmod scene.

And if said underlying problems are not solved, the server will die. The biggest reason for Willard's popularity is its script work and automation, not its RP quality. It's like putting makeup on a corpse; brand new features attract attention, but the real problems never go away. They get worse, and worse, and worse.

WN is going to survive by catering to the players it has to hand, the people who're here for roleplay

How many people are here for the roleplay, and how many people are here for the script work?

Don't get me wrong; the server deserves the popularity it has, and the hard work of the developers and lore team should be recognized. But I have to point out that those are the reasons why Willard has seen success. Strip them away and all that remains is the dried husk of City RP and the formula within.

I could get into the 24/7 public CityRP formula itself and why it doesn't really work, but I'll leave it here for now.

 

[Deleted member 2552]

A lot of people will think this is unfair but the ONLY way to have a remotely “realistic” and “fair” situation is to implement RNG in some way. Admins are always biased, no matter what they say. That’s also why I prefer TBC/S2K over S2RP.

The rolls wouldn't affect the battle itself, it just turns out the results of your injuries. GMs would watch silently assessing shots, character stats and equipment.



If your being treated by a medical professional, they can simply roll a d20 medical roll and their attributes for said medical can increase the rolled total. The end result being assessed by a GM, giving either a non-fatal injury or complete recovery depending on the roll.

If you have no one with medical experience, medical equipment or any method of sufficent recovery and are hit and are heavily injured, you could roll for a d10 and decide your fate then on, fail to surpass the death roll and you die, or PKed.



TBC itself will still exist, just that actual PKs would be assessed AFTER that interaction, people roleplay their final moments and those who escaped on time will be rolled for.

 

[Deleted member 2552]

- Automated Rolling System
* Gives a d10 or d20 roll after you leave a battle or when a battle is won.
* When on crit, you will STAY critted and be invunerable untill post battle and remain FROZEN.
* Individuals with HP below 30, Have no medical items, Have low medical skill or have no vortigaunt present will be death rolled via d10.
* Individuals with HP with 50 and below will gain a d20 roll, and their injuries will be assessed by a GM post-battle.
* /me's will have automated rolls when cued up by a GM, key phrases like 'search, lift, pull, destroy, build or dodge' will automatically send a skill roll.

* Benifits to this will give players rp material to 'succeed' or 'fail' a task, allowing for fluid shinanigans to appear during workshift's or expeditions.
* It will make combat more tense and give attributes like medical a use post-battle, deaths will be purely on the chance of d10 rolls of indivudals who fail to survive with proper preperation, allowing for people to roleplay their final moments before dying out completely.

Added a new suggestion based off the automated /me system. This feels like an appropriate solution to the whole "quantity over quality" issue with it.


Similar to DnD, you would have attribute rolls based on the task at hand. Search for something and it'll roll a perception d20, etc. It'll be a easy way to gain rp material without it being too forceful and on the latter, makes combat more RP centeral without removing the S2K element.

 

[coolbloxxie]

Added a new suggestion based off the automated /me system. This feels like an appropriate solution to the whole "quantity over quality" issue with it.


Similar to DnD, you would have attribute rolls based on the task at hand. Search for something and it'll roll a perception d20, etc. It'll be a easy way to gain rp material without it being too forceful and on the latter, makes combat more RP centeral without removing the S2K element.

/me lifts himself off of the couch...
/me searches through the fridge for a meal...
/me pulls a gun out of his holster...
/me gets the hell out of dodge...
so on and so forth.

adding any sort of word search filter is only going to frustrate players ("My name's Richard, call me Dick." and then having the message be removed, or being banned.)

i was going to say this for your earlier post, i didn't want to start yet another dispute: imagine 6 years of character development, someone you've played across multiple communities, a character that you truly and finally like, in this community, a place where you think they're finally going to get to finish their arc. ages in the making, with realistic relationships and flaws and personality traits meshing well with all the other's of the server, you're even at the centre of a massive player-driven arc with an event just waiting to be made for it, when...

all of a sudden, you're in turn based combat. doesn't matter the who, why, when, how, but you wind up on 6 health by the time the battle's over. now, just for a moment, imagine that because the first person to reach you was a new player who didn't know what they were doing, or a newly made doctor with a low medical stat instead of someone whose been there since the start of the server, your character dies on the spot. maybe a dozen people left hanging in a story arc that can't see an end because of someone who doesn't even know you exist.

furthermore, lets say one of the losing combatants barely survived, too. because they have valuable intel, the other combatants bring a doctor to treat him, with a high enough medical skill that the roll is GUARANTEED to succeed.

does this sound fair to you? it doesn't to me. as i said in an earlier post,

this'll be a short but controversial take: admin bias, in the right way, will always improve the story. characters typically go through great hardships, and without an admin's intervention to steer that hardship, would it really be fun? would Half-Life or Half-Life 2 be the same if there weren't supply caches around with ammo and health? roleplay is a collaborative writing effort, and writing needs direction.

you really just can't have a fun roleplay if there isn't an admin to adjust the scales every so often, and players capable of writing a /me without a prompt. you shouldn't need a rolling system to know that six bullets to the legs are gonna annihilate your knees and put you in a wheelchair, you shouldn't need to roll a dice to lift a box twice your size, these are problems that are better left to the player to solve. you need a wheelchair? find materials, and find someone who can make a wheelchair. you're creating roleplay for these people, you're giving them something to do, especially if they're rebels. you need to lift a box in a workshift? ask for help from your co-workers in the shift, roleplay how much of a struggle it is to lift.

in short, there's no reason you should use logic and google for every single other scenario, but RNG for very specific situations that would make the most effect on player's experiences of the server.

 

[Deleted member 2552]

/me lifts himself off of the couch...
/me searches through the fridge for a meal...
/me pulls a gun out of his holster...
/me gets the hell out of dodge...
so on and so forth.

adding any sort of word search filter is only going to frustrate players ("My name's Richard, call me Dick." and then having the message be removed, or being banned.)

i was going to say this for your earlier post, i didn't want to start yet another dispute: imagine 6 years of character development, someone you've played across multiple communities, a character that you truly and finally like, in this community, a place where you think they're finally going to get to finish their arc. ages in the making, with realistic relationships and flaws and personality traits meshing well with all the other's of the server, you're even at the centre of a massive player-driven arc with an event just waiting to be made for it, when...

all of a sudden, you're in turn based combat. doesn't matter the who, why, when, how, but you wind up on 6 health by the time the battle's over. now, just for a moment, imagine that because the first person to reach you was a new player who didn't know what they were doing, or a newly made doctor with a low medical stat instead of someone whose been there since the start of the server, your character dies on the spot. maybe a dozen people left hanging in a story arc that can't see an end because of someone who doesn't even know you exist.

furthermore, lets say one of the losing combatants barely survived, too. because they have valuable intel, the other combatants bring a doctor to treat him, with a high enough medical skill that the roll is GUARANTEED to succeed.

does this sound fair to you? it doesn't to me. as i said in an earlier post,

you really just can't have a fun roleplay if there isn't an admin to adjust the scales every so often, and players capable of writing a /me without a prompt. you shouldn't need a rolling system to know that six bullets to the legs are gonna annihilate your knees and put you in a wheelchair, you shouldn't need to roll a dice to lift a box twice your size, these are problems that are better left to the player to solve. you need a wheelchair? find materials, and find someone who can make a wheelchair. you're creating roleplay for these people, you're giving them something to do, especially if they're rebels. you need to lift a box in a workshift? ask for help from your co-workers in the shift, roleplay how much of a struggle it is to lift.

in short, there's no reason you should use logic and google for every single other scenario, but RNG for very specific situations that would make the most effect on player's experiences of the server.

While that is true, you do understand that the rolling isn't constant? It's a toggleable by admins that are planned during events like workshifts, expeditions for eaching certain zones, etc.
(I'm sorry if I haven't planned it out on the main thread., I'll elaborate there on)

GMs would manually roll d10s or 20s depending on the situation post-battle. They would assess shots taken, who's crit, their special abilities, etc. The attributes of a character would play some part on a characters survival but overall it lies upon your own actions, your own strengths and weaknesses and what lead to it.

The GM will assess the situation and give a death of d10 if there aren't any factors to assist you, thresholds vary, or, a d20 standard roll to assess the injury your character will roleplay with the rest of the session, depending on what happened to you, if it was bad, etc.







As it is, it's already unfair. The crit system was intended as a way for people to roleplay their injuries and have a impactful death but with how you can simply get back up it heavily incentives pure S2K which already destroys the RP. It makes everyone insta-PK hungry.

This upon the fact that no third party that knows the characters attributes and their general abilities and are willing or allowed to assess their injuries in a classical DnD fashion means that people will argue and bicker and overall be brought back from the dead or die randomly without suspense. Despite how many years you put into your character.





The system I'm trying to implement with automated rolls is automating basic tasks to make things interesting. Searching items, Crafting a lever to pull this door open, etc. It happens in spesific areas, during events, or post-battle (GM manned).

Generally speaking, it INCENTIVISES RP, RPed out injuries, deaths, situations.





People can still roll on their own, just that for admins, it's a basic tool that'll make workshifts and loot missions and the like a little more fun and for the combat, to be more RP centered post-battle. Leaving the final blow to the rolls, not the staff.

 

[coolbloxxie]

While that is true, you do understand that the rolling isn't constant? It's a toggleable by admins that are planned during events like workshifts, expeditions for eaching certain zones, etc.
(I'm sorry if I haven't planned it out on the main thread., I'll elaborate there on)

GMs would manually roll d10s or 20s depending on the situation post-battle. They would assess shots taken, who's crit, their special abilities, etc. The attributes of a character would play some part on a characters survival but overall it lies upon your own actions, your own strengths and weaknesses and what lead to it.

The GM will assess the situation and give a death of d10 if there aren't any factors to assist you, thresholds vary, or, a d20 standard roll to assess the injury your character will roleplay with the rest of the session, depending on what happened to you, if it was bad, etc.







As it is, it's already unfair. The crit system was intended as a way for people to roleplay their injuries and have a impactful death but with how you can simply get back up it heavily incentives pure S2K which already destroys the RP. It makes everyone insta-PK hungry.

This upon the fact that no third party that knows the characters attributes and their general abilities and are willing or allowed to assess their injuries in a classical DnD fashion means that people will argue and bicker and overall be brought back from the dead or die randomly without suspense. Despite how many years you put into your character.





The system I'm trying to implement with automated rolls is automating basic tasks to make things interesting. Searching items, Crafting a lever to pull this door open, etc. It happens in spesific areas, during events, or post-battle (GM manned).

Generally speaking, it INCENTIVISES RP, RPed out injuries, deaths, situations.





People can still roll on their own, just that for admins, it's a basic tool that'll make workshifts and loot missions and the like a little more fun and for the combat, to be more RP centered post-battle. Leaving the final blow to the rolls, not the staff.

i'm havng a hard time following along with your intended structure of this system and i don't really want to continue this discussion any longer than it's already gone on, so all i can say is that i wish you good luck in implementing it, because the odds seem to be stacked against you

 

[Deleted member 2552]

i'm havng a hard time following along with your intended structure of this system and i don't really want to continue this discussion any longer than it's already gone on, so all i can say is that i wish you good luck in implementing it, because the odds seem to be stacked against you

8 - 1 seems fine with it and if people are for RPed out deaths and their characters to have a chance of surviving the near death encounters most people will be for it.


If you aren't going to listen or provide a sufficent replacement, you aren't helping yourself, me or this community. There aren't any supremely fair systems out there, but if there's one that can be the most entertaining and fun, i'd stick to that more then anything.

 

[coolbloxxie]

8 - 1 seems fine with it and if people are for RPed out deaths and their characters to have a chance of surviving the near death encounters most people will be for it.


If you aren't going to listen or provide a sufficent replacement, you aren't helping yourself, me or this community. There aren't any supremely fair systems out there, but if there's one that can be the most entertaining and fun, i'd stick to that more then anything.

your 8 reactions came before that edit, as far as i know or care to look into. like i said, your above explanation doesn't make enough coherent sense for me to make a counter argument, and my time is better spent elsewhere than on a forum suggestion trying to disagree with you. respect the fact that i don't want to continue repeating what i've said for years and focus on improving your suggestion, there is no need to continue to drag me back.

 

[emmet]

your 8 reactions came before that edit, as far as i know or care to look into. like i said, your above explanation doesn't make enough coherent sense for me to make a counter argument, and my time is better spent elsewhere than on a forum suggestion trying to disagree with you. respect the fact that i don't want to continue repeating what i've said for years and focus on improving your suggestion, there is no need to continue to drag me back.

Tdlr cope and seethe gamer

 

[Atle]

The razor quality of life addition could be done and looked into but the rest I can't justify atm as other development issues come first. Overall I'll have to move this to denied

DENIED

 

[Aspect™]

Considering no one actually gave their opinion on the original suggestion, I'm re-opening this for people to discuss if they wish: Specifically about the following things, as mentioned in the original post:

- Have the user of beard razor affect others similarly to a POS transaction.

- Affective limb based system. Allows effects to be aimed at SPECIFIC parts of the body.

- A craftable Radio Scrambler

- Automated Rolling System

 

[Deleted member 2552]

Considering no one actually gave their opinion on the original suggestion, I'm re-opening this for people to discuss if they wish: Specifically about the following things, as mentioned in the original post:

I'm happy that these suggestions are being reconsidered, but hasn't it been denied by atel? At the end of the day it's up to the CMs right?

 

[Aspect™]

I'm happy that these suggestions are being reconsidered, but hasn't it been denied by atel? At the end of the day it's up to the CMs right?

It was 'denied' on the basis of us not having time for it right now, but that doesn't mean we can't get to it at a later date. Thus, I talked to him and we agreed to move a few suggestions from 'denied' to 'accepted', but noting that it may be a while until we have time to actually look into implementing them in-game, due to us having other development priorities at this time.

 

[verTix]

other development priorities at this time.

can the community get any insight as to what these actually are? if it's more drugs and superfluous garbage i am going to take liquid shit and smear it into the server box