Raid rules? What raid rules?

[AdamCF]

Alright, so: This is mainly a complaint, but also a refund request. I'd quite like the weapons and crafting supplies I had in there back.

At 10:14pm last night, while I was either on my Civil Protection character or playing Warzone, my Citizen's container was broken into with auths from @Imperator RAD-X

The raider was a Vortigaunt whom my character had never interacted with and, if he had, it certainly wasn't anything meaningful or negative in the slightest.

The container's location was in that gap in between the two floors of the slums housing. Not a secret, though I assumed the raiding rules would help me from bandit groups going around raiding random containers as that's precisely what the rules were designed to prevent. Although it's not entirely important, @Votton should be aware of the fact that I only put the container there as my original hiding spot was glitched in a way that didn't let me access it.

So, when I found my container without a lock and entirely stripped, I had two questions: Who authorised this, and why?
The first question was quite simple. After a few minutes of searching by a helpful staff member, the logs gave me answers: Rad-X had allowed it.


Alright, we've got a Vortigaunt I've never met, a CM approving a raid, a "/me The", and a CM saying "Cabinets are free for your looting". I'm not exactly feeling great about my odds here. But, I go ahead and DM Rad-X on discord. After not too long, I'm given a response.


Let's go through this a little.
CMs can, obviously, authorise raids just as any staff member can, but they shouldn't be authorising people to break the rules.
As I mentioned before, it wasn't hidden. This is a fact, but it's also a fact that you can't randomly raid containers out in the open. This is covered by raiding rule 2, which states you need an IC reason to raid one. This may be subjective, but I'd bet money that almost all of the staff team would agree "They're a bunch of bandits, mate" isn't much of a valid reason to raid a random player's container.
About the area-logs? I'd been in the area in the past 14 days. I placed that container within the past 14 days, so I'd obviously been there.
And back to the hidden stuff. Yeah, wasn't hidden. But again, rule 2.


I'd also like to add a few points made by a friend I'd asked about this, who had a similar situation happen to him:
"If we were to follow the same logic, with this container breach established as precedence for future containers in similar circumstances, in which a container is raidable if situated in a semi-public to public area and is easily discoverable, then by the same logic and precedent set, we should be able to raid:
This container.

That container.

This container.

And that container.

All of these are situated in easily discoverable semi-public to public places and are poorly hidden from any onlookers. Considering how Rule 1. and Rule 2. was rendered null in relation to AdamCF's container, then by the same logic, these containers should be free game for any wannabe bandits, muggers, and raiders.

Considering that even a situation nearly exactly similar to this one, just swapping out CPs for Bandits, was refunded; then by the same ruling & logic for cases like these, this should also be accepted and refunded, as they had even less of a reason than the CPs did for breaching a container."

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

For one, I'm not going to make the decision to accept or refuse your complaint. Someone else can deal with that.

OK. I've already stated this before and I'll have to state it again - you hid your containers in an area that was clearly visible for the sole fact that you didn't commit into the following I mentioned above, because I don't simply ask nor put people out of their way to "break the rules". I'm sorry that you've been raided, but I went back fourteen days worth of logs and did not find one /me involving you to hide them, nor were they behind a group lock or an area that requires information to find out about htem and they were in a public area reachable by physically anybody.

To me, you are asking to have your goods stolen by another person, and the players were part of a very large group that found your caches.

I spoke to Votton and RedHot and they also find you did not roleplay anything in particular to cover your tracks (if there was a /me I wouldn't have authorised it.) You were also online playing Civil Protection at the time.

I take all of these into account. Another CM or staff member will deal with your thread.

 

[AdamCF]

For one, I'm not going to make the decision to accept or refuse your complaint. Someone else can deal with that.

OK. I've already stated this before and I'll have to state it again - you hid your containers in an area that was clearly visible for the sole fact that you didn't commit into the following I mentioned above, because I don't simply ask nor put people out of their way to "break the rules". I'm sorry that you've been raided, but I went back fourteen days worth of logs and did not find one /me involving you to hide them, nor were they behind a group lock or an area that requires information to find out about htem and they were in a public area reachable by physically anybody.

To me, you are asking to have your goods stolen by another person, and the players were part of a very large group that found your caches.

I spoke to Votton and RedHot and they also find you did not roleplay anything in particular to cover your tracks (if there was a /me I wouldn't have authorised it.) You were also online playing Civil Protection at the time.

I take all of these into account. Another CM or staff member will deal with your thread.

Okay. You've established that they weren't hidden, this is correct. I even said this in the thread. I'm not attempting to make you think I hid it.

My point with the thread is this: They had no IC reason specific to my character. Their reason was "I saw this container. I want the scripts inside". That was it. That is not a valid reason to raid a container, and it has never been. I've even had container raids denied on my CP for far, far more.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Agreed. Reasoning was not adequate for the raiding. That alone will nullify the act. Banditry is not a valid raid reason, as if it were there might as well be no rule to begin with regarding intent. Everyone wants scripts after all.

That being said, finding it was justified as you have to /me hiding cabinets. Contact admins to have your items refunded. I will also deal with the removal of those taken by the offending bandits. Will also receive new locks.

Accepted

 

[Ruffian]

Furthermore, the people who robbed the containers also tried to strong-arm me into giving them the containers themselves. It's clear they were out for scripts.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Items have been refunded. Will move to complete once old items have been confiscated