Report of "sleepjie"

[ActuallyRakaesa]

The situation is fairly simple. My character, wearing a full disguise (including a different nickname, fake accent, etc) came up from the sewers. Took off their disguise with nobody around, proceeded to Cole's shelter and started talking to a friend.

Sleepjie, on their event character Vanna, ran into Cole's shelter and pointed a pistol at my character. It is from an IC perspective entirely impossible for them to have known my character (undisguised) was the same person that had just been in the sewers. They threatened my character about going in the sewers, said 'this is the last time we'll warn you', and began to walk away. I visibly had an M1917 revolver equipped on my hip at the time.

They began walking away before I could even /me and rushing away from the scene. Because I did not have time for an appropriate /me, I took out my firearm to engage in S2K. My character had just been threatened at gunpoint (by the second spore fanatic so far), and she apparently somehow knew of his identity, magically. Both of these reasons were more than ample enough for my character to kill this individual. I opened fire, engaged in turn-based S2K, and killed their character. I explicitly stated that I did not want to ask for a PK, and did not want to ruin the event character or the planned event in any way.

Sleepjie proceeded to remove the corpse and the loot entirely, claim they would not accept this, and this is the full logs of the conversation that ensued:
[LOOC] Vanna: ok i'm not accepting that at all
Player Brennen has joined the game
[LOOC] Vanna: that was bullshit and you know it
[LOOC] Keim Rider: ??? I had a gun on me lol
[LOOC] Vanna: it's common courtesy bro.
[LOOC] Vanna: if i wanted you dead i'd have killed you
[LOOC] Keim Rider: you threatened my character with a gun. you got shot.
Claire Lavoie says (to you) "You alright!?"
[LOOC] Vanna: this is an event character.
[LOOC] Keim Rider: I don't ask for PKs anyway
[LOOC] Vanna: typical rebels shoot first RP later
[LOOC] Keim Rider: it's the 2nd person that's threatened him from down there, he's not hesitating to kill them lol
[LOOC] Vanna: you could, you know, roleplay
[LOOC] Keim Rider: you walked away before I could even /me
[LOOC] Keim Rider: right, and you're gonna despawn the loot, I'm taking this up with other admins
Player Groth_Man11 left the game (Disconnect by user.)
[LOOC] Vanna: go for it my brother in christ
Player Groth_Man11 has joined the game
[LOOC] Keim Rider: which admin are you?
[LOOC] Vanna: sleepjie
[LOOC] Keim Rider: I thought you were cool, why are you getting in such a fuss because someone shot you for pointing a gun at them lol
[LOOC] Vanna: because i'm trying to build up to an event and your first instinct is to S2K me when i was clearly just trying to get away
[LOOC] Vanna: no go ahead put your appeal in
[LOOC] Keim Rider: yes, someone just pointed a gun at my face, threatened me for the second time, and walked away. ofc I'm going to shoot them in the back, that's the logical thing to do
[LOOC] Keim Rider: i'm not asking for a PK or anything, but getting the loot would make sense lol
[LOOC] Vanna: ok put your appeal in then
[LOOC] Vanna: bye bye

[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): also, he wears a *full* disguise in the sewers, it's metagaming to even *know* he was down there
Player Yamaha XYZ 10000R SS has joined the game
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): i'm creating an antagonist that people will talk about, the purpose of this faction is to be defeated, but prematurely shooting people in the slums with no RP isn't going to get you anything
A matching player could not be found!
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): again i'm not asking for a pk, it's not like i'm trying to stop your event
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): but if you're going to threaten someone with a gun ofc you're gonna get shot
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): and it's impossible for her to have even known it was him lol
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): it's impossible for this character to do a lot of things but it's to create a vibe that none of the rebels are safe and you need to band together to fight the cultists. did you not see all the notes in your base?
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): yes I saw the notes, that doesn't mean admins get to break the metagaming rule
Player Maniac has joined the game
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): particularly if you're announcing that meta info to *other people* in the vicinity
Player Silta has joined the game
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): imagine she says that and ruins my disguise to other rebels, suddenly my character is fucked
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): i'm a GM, i'm building a storyline, that requires a bit of meta and a bit of suspension of disbelief
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): i'm not just some random player out to get your shit.
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): sure a little is fine but you're going about it the wrong way and not accepting that players might not react the exact way you hope for them to
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): a good DM adapts to player reactions, not expect them to follow a strict idea
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): getting shot is a very real possibility if you're threatening people
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): yes i will adapt to you shooting me with no roleplay that makes perfect sense
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): especially when you force my char into turn based combat
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): again, you started walking away instead of waiting for a /me, CPs can shoot people for the same reason.
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): because the purpose of that interaction wasn't for violence, it was simply so you'd have something to say to other characters down the line
Player Pixel? has joined the game
You have some items to pick up! Find the marked stash
[PM] »Vanna (sleepjie): no matter what *your* purpose was for the interaction, if you're threatening someone with a weapon, in all likelihood, *you will get shot*
[PM] Vanna (sleepjie): it doesn't matter, it's over, you're not getting the pistol, take it up with other admins and see what they say.



I don't think this was an appropriate response from an admin at all. It was entirely logical for their character to be shot, I wasn't requesting a PK whatsoever, and had no intention of stopping their event. My character was threatened, his identity almost exposed, and he took appropriate measures. The admin has, from my shoes, broken metagaming rules and abused their power substantially.

EDIT: I'll also add, come to think of it, that they did not /me approaching me, taking their weapon out, or aiming it at me, so this seems exceptionally hypocritical.

 

[Larenis]

I am not sure if I am meant or allowed to post anything or not. But I am Claire Lavoie and I was a witness of the whole scenario playing out. So I can confirm the narrative presented above regarding how the shooting happened when Vanna took flight after aiming a gun at Keim to intimidated him.

 

[sleepjie]

Here's my side of the story.

I was on an event character, Vanna, who is a cultist, claiming to be touched by Nihilanth, and somehow connected to the Vortessence. @HadeZord can attest that in a previous RP engagement with this character, she appeared to have some otherworldly knowledge of certain things, including Xen. The spore cult is an idea I've been trying to build up for a few days now, to engage the players with a new antagonist; a villain faction that everyone can band together and fight back against. Yesterday, I left lovely notes all around various areas of the City, including places which are impossible to breach without the help of noclip, including rebel bases. Is this against the rules? No, because, as everyone hopefully understands, this is how suspension is built. The whole point of these cultists is that they can be anywhere, any time, and they (seem) to know a lot of rather uncomfortable details about people. This obviously requires metagaming for the purpose of unnerving players and making them question just how safe they are from the sewers.

In what now seems like a misguided effort, I witnessed Keim leave the sewers from observer mode, and thought it would be a good idea if Vanna, who shares a connection with the spores and is essentially their puppet, were to threaten Keim to stay out of the sewers. How she acquired the information didn't really seem like much of an issue to me - explainable through many means, the spores, the fact Keim is down there frequently or the fact that she already knows about most of the other Resistance members - it didn't matter. The idea I had for this interaction was that Vanna would enter the shelter, make a threat, and walk away. There was an implication of danger, but it remained just that; an implication. During this encounter, Keim showed a blatant disregard for FearRP, despite being a 'sociopath', but the message was delivered, and I decided to walk away, without simply noclipping out of bounds for the sakes of spookiness. 10 seconds later, I am forced into an S2K situation. No PM, no @, no /me. This is as far as the roleplay between our two characters goes.



During the S2K, I shot at you for one of the rounds, since I was assuming we would do some RP within the engagement to make up for the lack of any opening /mes. You didn't say a single thing during the entire TBC, nor did you seem to catch on to the fact that I was trying to simply get away during the rounds where I could have opened up on you but chose not to.

I was understandably quite annoyed at your total lack of decorum and chose not to let you loot the 9MM from the corpse because, quite frankly, you did nothing deserving of a reward. You can perform whatever mental gymnastics you want to do about how my character was metagaming (even though it's in service of storybuilding) but in the end, there were a few different ways you could have asked me to come back and engage with you properly, and I would have obliged, but instead, you chose the easiest, fastest way to get to what you assumed would be a script, and the only reason I think you're even posting this report is because you were denied a weapon.
([LOOC] Keim Rider: right, and you're gonna despawn the loot, I'm taking this up with other admins)

Your health was set back to 100 immediately after the engagement and I flew off, willing to just let that be the end of it.

I'm willing to accept whatever comes my way for this, but as far as I'm concerned, the threat Vanna delivered was simply to move the conversation around the cultists forward, and wasn't intended to ruin Keim's disguise or hamper his roleplay. I admit I could have handled the situation in a more mature manner, and for that I apologise, but I don't appreciate it when my efforts to build a narrative are halted prematurely by people who I think are just out for scripts, which is what I'm thinking now.

 

[ActuallyRakaesa]

Here's my side of the story.

I was on an event character, Vanna, who is a cultist, claiming to be touched by Nihilanth, and somehow connected to the Vortessence. @HadeZord can attest that in a previous RP engagement with this character, she appeared to have some otherworldly knowledge of certain things, including Xen. The spore cult is an idea I've been trying to build up for a few days now, to engage the players with a new antagonist; a villain faction that everyone can band together and fight back against. Yesterday, I left lovely notes all around various areas of the City, including places which are impossible to breach without the help of noclip, including rebel bases. Is this against the rules? No, because, as everyone hopefully understands, this is how suspension is built. The whole point of these cultists is that they can be anywhere, any time, and they (seem) to know a lot of rather uncomfortable details about people. This obviously requires metagaming for the purpose of unnerving players and making them question just how safe they are from the sewers.

In what now seems like a misguided effort, I witnessed Keim leave the sewers from observer mode, and thought it would be a good idea if Vanna, who shares a connection with the spores and is essentially their puppet, were to threaten Keim to stay out of the sewers. How she acquired the information didn't really seem like much of an issue to me - explainable through many means, the spores, the fact Keim is down there frequently or the fact that she already knows about most of the other Resistance members - it didn't matter. The idea I had for this interaction was that Vanna would enter the shelter, make a threat, and walk away. There was an implication of danger, but it remained just that; an implication. During this encounter, Keim showed a blatant disregard for FearRP, despite being a 'sociopath', but the message was delivered, and I decided to walk away, without simply noclipping out of bounds for the sakes of spookiness. 10 seconds later, I am forced into an S2K situation. No PM, no @, no /me. This is as far as the roleplay between our two characters goes.

View attachment 10588

During the S2K, I shot at you for one of the rounds, since I was assuming we would do some RP within the engagement to make up for the lack of any opening /mes. You didn't say a single thing during the entire TBC, nor did you seem to catch on to the fact that I was trying to simply get away during the rounds where I could have opened up on you but chose not to.

I was understandably quite annoyed at your total lack of decorum and chose not to let you loot the 9MM from the corpse because, quite frankly, you did nothing deserving of a reward. You can perform whatever mental gymnastics you want to do about how my character was metagaming (even though it's in service of storybuilding) but in the end, there were a few different ways you could have asked me to come back and engage with you properly, and I would have obliged, but instead, you chose the easiest, fastest way to get to what you assumed would be a script, and the only reason I think you're even posting this report is because you were denied a weapon.
([LOOC] Keim Rider: right, and you're gonna despawn the loot, I'm taking this up with other admins)

Your health was set back to 100 immediately after the engagement and I flew off, willing to just let that be the end of it.

I'm willing to accept whatever comes my way for this, but as far as I'm concerned, the threat Vanna delivered was simply to move the conversation around the cultists forward, and wasn't intended to ruin Keim's disguise or hamper his roleplay. I admit I could have handled the situation in a more mature manner, and for that I apologise, but I don't appreciate it when my efforts to build a narrative are halted prematurely by people who I think are just out for scripts, which is what I'm thinking now.

Metagaming in service of storybuilding isn't a valid excuse. This is not at all how good DMing is done. You gave absolutely no emotes towards me, you walked in, raised your weapon, and spoke a few lines of dialogue, before promptly walking away. There's no mental gymnastics required here. You need to be held accountable for your abuse of powers as an admin, and improper handling of storybuilding as a DM.

 

[sleepjie]

Metagaming in service of storybuilding isn't a valid excuse. This is not at all how good DMing is done.

That's your opinion, but this is a fictional video game and some suspension of disbelief is required sometimes. You are also correct, that is exactly how the interaction went, right before you, also with no emotes towards me, gunned me down. If you're going to overlook the fact you also broke the rules, then I'll repeatedly remind you that you also mishandled that situation grossly.

 

[ActuallyRakaesa]

That's your opinion, but this is a fictional video game and some suspension of disbelief is required sometimes. You are also correct, that is exactly how the interaction went, right before you, also with no emotes towards me, gunned me down. If you're going to overlook the fact you also broke the rules, then I'll repeatedly remind you that you also mishandled that situation grossly.

Engaging in S2K breaks no rules. What I'm saying is that I gave the same amount of effort that you began by giving me. Your character was some of the poorest roleplay I've ever experienced on HL2RP.

 

[Robert]

I am going to give my take and say both of you are in the wrong here.

Keeping it short:
Sleepjie for the LOOC comments made and how it could be handled better

ActuallyRakaesa for the fact that all combat regardless of either TBC or S2K requires a /me BEFORE opening fire. This is stated in our ruleset. Even if you don't have time, a quick "/me opens fire" works just as well.

Apart from that, everything else said by both sides is valid. All I would need to say myself on the matter.

 

[ActuallyRakaesa]

After seeing the other report about this same admin breaking into the CMU with no CPs online, I'm formally requesting that Vanna be PK'd from my encounter from her and that I be entirely excluded from the rest of this event chain if it continues, and have my interactions with this admin limited as much as physically possible. I usually despise requesting PKs and I expect the same courtesy from others, but this is above and beyond absurd.

 

[sleepjie]

You don’t need to worry, you were going to be excluded anyway.

 

[ActuallyRakaesa]

You don’t need to worry, you were going to be excluded anyway.

You're really digging yourself a hole and not doing yourself any favors here.

 

[sleepjie]

Not really, I’m perfectly within my rights to choose who I roleplay with.

 

[ActuallyRakaesa]

Not really, I’m perfectly within my rights to choose who I roleplay with.

You remind me of me when I was 14-16. Absolutely no comprehension of how to behave appropriately with other people or contain your emotions, continuously digging yourself into a deeper hole with your behavior. I don't know how you made it on the staff team.

 

[Deleted member 418]

Salvadore is handling this, no further need to reply.

 

[NEYO]

Yo,

So having read this over, I have to agree with Robert. It looks like both sides are in the wrong here althought as an Admin Sleepjie should have known better and set a better example. I will void this interaction and advise you to avoid shooting at people without a /me, if they are walking away ask them to stop and give you a chance to roleplay properly, if they don't you can call for an Admin. Also fearRP applies to sociopaths but whatever I don't want to drag this out anymore.