Implemented Save the Beretta

[rae]

Hello, I've been looking through the pistol selection and noticed something completely off about the Beretta's stats, the short version is in the paragraph below, and the rest of the stats are there for you to view, gathered from the server.

The fire-rate is lower than the USP, 20% lower armor penetration, 2 rounds less than the USP, although it has less recoil as the only saving grace to spending more materials on it than the USP. I think the values of the M9 were forgotten about or there was an error in testing it.

I compared all the pistols, along with some makeshift weapons that I have access to. The comparison will overview the 3 main stats that I've mentioned prior, as the rest can be chalked up to 'preference', like recoil and such.


The M9 Beretta holds 14 damage
40% Armor Penetration (equivalent of a makeshift AKM, mind.)
15 rounds per magazine
360 RPM
Doesn't accept attachments

The USP.45 holds 15 damage
60% Armor Penetration
17 rounds per magazine
450 RPM
Doesn't accept attachments
Making it the best choice by far in every aspect.

The M1911 holds 14 damage
55% Armor Penetration
7 Rounds per magazine
400 RPM
Accepts attachments

These are modern weapons, mind you. Now let's look at the makeshift AKM
The makeshift AKM has 11 damage
40% Armor Penetration (Equivalent of a modern pistol)
30 Rounds per magazine
550 RPM, nearly 200 RPM higher than the M9.
Also accepts attachments.

---

Using a makeshift AKM would be better than using an M9 purely because of fire-rate and magazine capacity if I understand the damage and armor penetration system correctly. Unless you want to account for gun skill, there is no reason to use the M9 instead of the AKM at the moment. It is almost identical to crafting the M9 actually, minus the plastic sheets.

I'm not sure where the M9 is meant to stand along with the rest of it's counterparts, it's more expensive to craft than both the USP and the 1911, and it does worse than its cheaper equivalents. It doesn't quite have it's own niche, the USP overshadows everything in comparison. And the M1911 is the poor man's modern pistol, the M9 is there for stylepoints, really.

I suggest that armor penetration values/fire rate of the M9 are looked at, the argument of calibers cant be made as the difference between the bastard SMG and the makeshift AKM is only 5% in armor penetration, instead of 20%. Any change at this point would be fine to make it at least a flavor weapon rather than a completely handicap to use. It's redundant in it's current state.

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

Weapons are currently being reworked, so this suggestion is useless at the current time.

 

[rae]

Weapons are currently being reworked, so this suggestion is useless at the current time.

Is there an estimate on when this might happen? Because I think the adjustment wouldn't take long to test and adjust, its better having working products now than wait for a fully working product that'll come in a few months.

 

[TheGamingPlumber]

Is there an estimate on when this might happen? Because I think the adjustment wouldn't take long to test and adjust, its better having working products now than wait for a fully working product that'll come in a few months.

There is no estimate from the developers. Seeing the stat change request is for the Gameplay Team to review, there was a suggestion made in the realm of this recently, and it was denied.

There's no point in changing anything unless its an immediate emergency.

 

[Taliazure]

Hello, I've been looking through the pistol selection and noticed something completely off about the Beretta's stats, the short version is in the paragraph below, and the rest of the stats are there for you to view, gathered from the server.

The fire-rate is lower than the USP, 20% lower armor penetration, 2 rounds less than the USP, although it has less recoil as the only saving grace to spending more materials on it than the USP. I think the values of the M9 were forgotten about or there was an error in testing it.

I compared all the pistols, along with some makeshift weapons that I have access to. The comparison will overview the 3 main stats that I've mentioned prior, as the rest can be chalked up to 'preference', like recoil and such.


The M9 Beretta holds 14 damage
40% Armor Penetration (equivalent of a makeshift AKM, mind.)
15 rounds per magazine
360 RPM
Doesn't accept attachments

The USP.45 holds 15 damage
60% Armor Penetration
17 rounds per magazine
450 RPM
Doesn't accept attachments
Making it the best choice by far in every aspect.

The M1911 holds 14 damage
55% Armor Penetration
7 Rounds per magazine
400 RPM
Accepts attachments

These are modern weapons, mind you. Now let's look at the makeshift AKM
The makeshift AKM has 11 damage
40% Armor Penetration (Equivalent of a modern pistol)
30 Rounds per magazine
550 RPM, nearly 200 RPM higher than the M9.
Also accepts attachments.

---

Using a makeshift AKM would be better than using an M9 purely because of fire-rate and magazine capacity if I understand the damage and armor penetration system correctly. Unless you want to account for gun skill, there is no reason to use the M9 instead of the AKM at the moment. It is almost identical to crafting the M9 actually, minus the plastic sheets.

I'm not sure where the M9 is meant to stand along with the rest of it's counterparts, it's more expensive to craft than both the USP and the 1911, and it does worse than its cheaper equivalents. It doesn't quite have it's own niche, the USP overshadows everything in comparison. And the M1911 is the poor man's modern pistol, the M9 is there for stylepoints, really.

I suggest that armor penetration values/fire rate of the M9 are looked at, the argument of calibers cant be made as the difference between the bastard SMG and the makeshift AKM is only 5% in armor penetration, instead of 20%. Any change at this point would be fine to make it at least a flavor weapon rather than a completely handicap to use. It's redundant in it's current state.

Weapons, in their current state, just don't make much sense to me. I find it confusing and frustrating that two guns chambered in the same caliber can have vastly different penetration values or damage outputs. I've made suggestions about this before, but they were largely ignored or dismissed by the dev team, which honestly makes it feel pointless to even bring it up again.

That said, I still want to voice this: the weapon balance right now still feels off. A while back, the majority of the playerbase voted in favor of a more hardcore setting, but somehow I still find myself needing to shoot an unarmored civilian eight times in the torso just to take them down, as if they’re running around with plot armor like 50 Cent, darting around corners at insane speeds.


The most common counter-argument I’ve heard to suggestions about more realistic gunplay is, “No one wants to die in five seconds during a gunfight.” But to me, that misses the point. If players don’t want high stakes, maybe they shouldn’t be involved in combat-heavy roles. That’s the risk you take when entering a firefight and that risk should matter. If you're a pussy don't show up.


Just yesterday, I used a .357 revolver and hit someone center-mass from three feet away, only to do 7 damage. That’s not just underwhelming, it’s immersion-breaking. I really hope the upcoming weapon updates will finally make firearms feel powerful and authentic and just as importantly, introduce meaningful recoil to prevent people from lasering others across the map with pinpoint precision liek certain rebel admins were able to do so yesterday and that's considering they were mostly Shooting to miss, if they weren't we'd all been dead...
guns = clownage rn

 

[MrMindBlow]

Hello, I've been looking through the pistol selection and noticed something completely off about the Beretta's stats, the short version is in the paragraph below, and the rest of the stats are there for you to view, gathered from the server.

The fire-rate is lower than the USP, 20% lower armor penetration, 2 rounds less than the USP, although it has less recoil as the only saving grace to spending more materials on it than the USP. I think the values of the M9 were forgotten about or there was an error in testing it.

I compared all the pistols, along with some makeshift weapons that I have access to. The comparison will overview the 3 main stats that I've mentioned prior, as the rest can be chalked up to 'preference', like recoil and such.


The M9 Beretta holds 14 damage
40% Armor Penetration (equivalent of a makeshift AKM, mind.)
15 rounds per magazine
360 RPM
Doesn't accept attachments

The USP.45 holds 15 damage
60% Armor Penetration
17 rounds per magazine
450 RPM
Doesn't accept attachments
Making it the best choice by far in every aspect.

The M1911 holds 14 damage
55% Armor Penetration
7 Rounds per magazine
400 RPM
Accepts attachments

These are modern weapons, mind you. Now let's look at the makeshift AKM
The makeshift AKM has 11 damage
40% Armor Penetration (Equivalent of a modern pistol)
30 Rounds per magazine
550 RPM, nearly 200 RPM higher than the M9.
Also accepts attachments.

---

Using a makeshift AKM would be better than using an M9 purely because of fire-rate and magazine capacity if I understand the damage and armor penetration system correctly. Unless you want to account for gun skill, there is no reason to use the M9 instead of the AKM at the moment. It is almost identical to crafting the M9 actually, minus the plastic sheets.

I'm not sure where the M9 is meant to stand along with the rest of it's counterparts, it's more expensive to craft than both the USP and the 1911, and it does worse than its cheaper equivalents. It doesn't quite have it's own niche, the USP overshadows everything in comparison. And the M1911 is the poor man's modern pistol, the M9 is there for stylepoints, really.

I suggest that armor penetration values/fire rate of the M9 are looked at, the argument of calibers cant be made as the difference between the bastard SMG and the makeshift AKM is only 5% in armor penetration, instead of 20%. Any change at this point would be fine to make it at least a flavor weapon rather than a completely handicap to use. It's redundant in it's current state.

Weapons, in their current state, just don't make much sense to me. I find it confusing and frustrating that two guns chambered in the same caliber can have vastly different penetration values or damage outputs. I've made suggestions about this before, but they were largely ignored or dismissed by the dev team, which honestly makes it feel pointless to even bring it up again.

That said, I still want to voice this: the weapon balance right now still feels off. A while back, the majority of the playerbase voted in favor of a more hardcore setting, but somehow I still find myself needing to shoot an unarmored civilian eight times in the torso just to take them down, as if they’re running around with plot armor like 50 Cent, darting around corners at insane speeds.


The most common counter-argument I’ve heard to suggestions about more realistic gunplay is, “No one wants to die in five seconds during a gunfight.” But to me, that misses the point. If players don’t want high stakes, maybe they shouldn’t be involved in combat-heavy roles. That’s the risk you take when entering a firefight and that risk should matter. If you're a pussy don't show up.


Just yesterday, I used a .357 revolver and hit someone center-mass from three feet away, only to do 7 damage. That’s not just underwhelming, it’s immersion-breaking. I really hope the upcoming weapon updates will finally make firearms feel powerful and authentic and just as importantly, introduce meaningful recoil to prevent people from lasering others across the map with pinpoint precision liek certain rebel admins were able to do so yesterday and that's considering they were mostly Shooting to miss, if they weren't we'd all been dead...
guns = clownage rn

While we acknowledge the faulty weapons, past suggestions were handled in accordance to future development plans on altering or moving away from the current weapon base that serves hundreds of Willard players daily.

For now, I would like to direct you and any further player to this THREAD:

Suggestion Thread '[DISCUSSION] Willard Weapon Base'

Apr 27, 2025

This isn't as much a suggestion as it is an open-ended discussion. Some of you know that this week I have begun the work on the process of developing a weapon base (mostly) from scratch for Willard to use. ArcCW and TFA's many flaws are well known to us all. However, they are completely opaque systems with little flexibility. As such, it is finally time we make our own base and leave them both behind.

Spoiler: Q&A + Demos

Why do this?

It must be FAST and it must have better hit registration. Without going into too much detail, I have realized why ArcCW's hit registration feels so...

• M!NT
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Denied / cancelled

• 
• 

In which the new weapon solution is being worked on.

As for the current situation, the topic of weapon balance can once again been brought forward to the Gameplay Team and the Developers whom can and should figure out a fair solution to make every weapon not only fair to use but worth to acquire each with noticeable advantages and drawbacks to their usage.

 

[Bounter]

The fact USP does more damage and has better armour-pen than M1911 is baffling too.

If it's gonna have only 7 shots, it should be more rewarding for when you DO hit them.

 

[MrMindBlow]

The weapon received a buff to match other pistols and its magazine has been increased, giving it more oomf per bullet or whatever the damage stat term is.

Accepted and implemented.