Well, the back and forth of iterating points begins.
Please note that I am considering all points from a teamfight aspect, rather than a solo engagement. It is my personal conviction almost all engagements should be considered as such- we all know the cops and rebels prefer to have numbers in fights.
I'll pluck out the main things I want to bring to light, starting with....
That's just being needlessly rude and isn't constructive to anything. Wanted to address that first, since it irked me from a discussion stand point.
Now, onto addresses of importance:
This is not true and you contradict yourself. Fights can start and end quick or slow, in any TTK- such as when neither side wants to aggress, or both sides are holding defensively, or when one side knows they have the numbers to go for it regardless. The latter would occur anyways- perhaps with a note of hesitation.
Plus..... didn't you say initially that...
You stated very negatively against drawn out combat entirely, and given the lack of full details in the second one I'm inclined to believe you had minimal armour, or none at all. Please correct this, if I am guessing wrongly.
You also state that fights are only drawn out. From what I can tell, this isn't true, based on your prior comment regarding the shotgun, and I do feel that does seem a bit unfair if it was one officer magdumping you, but I am operating on the idea that you were engaged with several.
Pulling from an example of my own for a longer fight and a shorter one, we were engaged with bandits in a house and had to advance. Using tactical reasoning, suppressing fire, and communication, we were able to advance within the building with zero losses on our side, and once within we dispatched of all the bandits extremely quickly- due to concentrated fire from two or more members of our squad.
In another bandit assault mission, we entered the building, and cleared out the forces inside rather quickly- due to concentrated fire from two or more members of our team, such as when a bandit was holding the stairwell with an SMG and peeked out momentarily.
I feel these examples also show that people do play reasonably, and smart, already- to go over something else you said you wanted to encourage people to do.
It is my honest opinion that people won't play smarter, they'll just play dumber- something you should full well be aware of as well. There's a reason the P90 rush is a common tactic for newer players in CS- because it's a lot of bullets, very fast, that do a lot of damage, very fast.
Fights will be heavily dependent on gear regardless. Hipfiring an MP7 point blank is just gonna become better. This point is null, and if you meant something different, it isn't able to be drawn from this comment.
And the meta would stay the same. Again- faster TTK would just mean the faster gun is better. I don't disagree that the consequence of good positioning would be felt more, but it isn't able to balance out the fact that it would also reward 'bumrushing' with high DPS weapons, if your opponent can't dish out the same damage- or has fewer numbers(for example 5 Aggressors vs. 2 Defenders). In that case- well, the same would happen even in lower TTK to be fair. All forms of TTK have an eb and flow to them, and a lot of it has to do with how much fire you can get on one target in a given time.
To choose an example that might happen on any given day, a CP at 100/50 with an MP7 engages two rebels at 100/25 with USPs. They have semi-effective cover and are all at an equal skill level, fighting in a small closed environment like an apartment.
Higher TTK: The two rebels plug the cop with holes as there are two of them, taking out his armour and bringing him to 52/0. One of them got tagged badly, being brought to 72/0, the other getting scratched and taken to 98/12. Both parties re-engage, and the CP knocks out the lower HP rebel, being dropped himself just after. The remaining rebel is at 22/0, having barely won against the odds- with more cops soon to follow.
Lower TTK: The two rebels plug the cop, but alas, the MP7 spits rounds faster than any pistol, and takes down one of the rebels immediately. The CP at 68/0, the other rebel at 92/0 as he had taken cover. The CP rushes the remaining rebel, strafing around him and killing him.
Granted- the second scenario is something that could happen, and likely would happen in scenario one as well. See what I mean?
It's the same outcome. Sure, the fight will go quicker- but it doesn't encourage anything in terms of smart play or practical combat skill. People should be considering that already anyways, to be honest- but I digress. This has been a minimally helpful rant.
You didn't really convey such with the tone in your initial comment, given its rather 'absolute' nature.
I will state again- people already risk dying fast by entering combat. That's how combat functions. If someone peeks carelessly, or runs around exposed and they get lit up- they already are on the backfoot. If you peek and take a shotgun shell to the face, you're already on a lower footing, and will probably die faster. On the other hand- if you peek quick and get behind cover in time, they might not even hit you at all. One of the more 'what-if' examples, but I don't mind it.
In any case- being stupid will get you punished more often than not already. If you're charging a Spikewall with a rusty club, I don't think a lower or higher TTK will affect the outcome.
To be fair, it's minimal RP. We're not talking like, '/me applies a bandage to the cauterised area of skin, bringing the IV down and inserting it into the arm'. It's more like '/r CPs pushing left hall.' or '/me takes a moment from the fighting, slotting out damaged kevlar inserts and replacing them with fresh ones' and '/me takes a moment from the fighting, yelling "Packing mags!" as they start loading rounds.'. Stuff like that. In events we get more time to do stuff, depending- but when you're on a time limit you don't really do as much as you would like. Medics pop off though, freeloaders...
Forgive my crass wording, but I must-
THE PLAYER IS GONNA GET SMOKED TALIA. HE'S DEAD! FOUR COPS RUSHED IN AND WHAMMIED HIM.
Now, to iterate with some level of... not that.
It will anyways. I see where you're coming from, but it will anyways.
To be fair, if all 7 stacked in at once I think at least one would have made it and gotten to you. MP5s were ridiculous, but there's still a limit on how many bullets kill so many people.
I will say that the MP5 is just a... not awesome gun on WN, though. The pen and low value for damage makes it on par with like, a Handmade AK. I'll come back to this in a later point.
Also wanted to say to this you'd die anyway unless you're hitting headshots like it's high noon. The netcode probably would nullify at least four of them but you get the idea.
I agree. I know I was yapping on it earlier, but I do want you to know that I do agree. Same goes for rebels, of course. I don't think a faster TTK would solve the issue, but it could assist it. Then again- if you're holding a doorway with another lad and there's something in the way, you can probably even the odds.
To be fair- and call me insane for it- I think it discourages shotcops. I think that's good for both parties.
As for meaningful engagements, I know I'm not gonna go in the street to shoot John Cop. I'd rather do that in an expo because I know that's more meaningful.
Now- as for the amount of bullets to take down a cop, it can be ludicrous, but I'm pretty sure bullet counts are made to mimic Half-Life 2's damage, at least partially. After playing through it on Hard again, that's how it seems to me.
I personally jive with it, but that's my preference
I fail to understand your point. What do you mean here? Forgive me- but this is more evocative of games like Rust or Escape from Tarkov, not WN. If I'm going into a fight, I'm bringing the best I can muster because it may very well be my last. Gear fear doesn't exist when you're on one life- it's use it or lose it, as one could say.
Except when OOC exceptions apply, then it's a matter of OOC exceptions.
People keeping stuff they earned is fine if it's being used, rather than if they are just hoarding it. Besides, as stated prior, people like seeing numbers go up. The issue won't fix with a faster TTK. I feel that this may be a matter of personal perspective on how gear is used, though, so forgive me.
I feel this can go either way, as some people will send it all in, and others won't. It isn't a catch-all effect, surprisingly. This is something that could only be gleaned with testing.
To be fair, it's like one event with a bunch of Zombies or Antlions to reach 30 in Guns, and I think that encourages good RP through going on 'training' excursions- at least, when people ask to do so. This is something that should be encouraged more in my opinion, but I don't really have a strong opinion either way.
I was actually unaware of this, given my perception of the MP7. I've only been using the MP5 thus far, and greatly prefer it. I used the MP7 in a combat mock-up, and preferred the MP5 to it, myself- but if what you say is true, then the MP7 should have higher spread the further the target is away.
Speaking on the MP5, it should be boosted somewhat damage-wise to compare with the MP7 in some amount. I feel that we should have a look at weapons that are deemed ineffective and give them a once-over, rather than a faster TTK catch-all for everything.
Don't have anything to say on the grenades. They behave oddly and cost too much in general for anyone reasonable to consider. I'd rather just make an Incen.
I don't even know what to say to that guy. Or the people who whacked him. He wasn't even shooting half the time- wagering that if he actually started shooting as soon as he saw them it would have gone differently.
The damage is insane though, that much can be said. This isn't a normal combat scenario, one must also note.
In other words- what feels like a cherry-picked scenario to get the point across, still shows damage is busted for melee. Failed upwards, one could say.
Now.... to get to the root of the points I've made- I think we just prefer different gameplay.
I like to get into firefights, but I also like their length of time. I also like that I'm not gonna get iced instantly, but I'm not gonna rush down an enemy position like I'm a P90 Silver 1. You seem to prefer quicker skirmishes with fast hammer-downs, and also don't want to rush down an enemy position like a fool.
I prefer coordinated efforts with my allies- we're not Gordon Freeman, after all. You seem to prefer lone players with an exceptional knack for S2K lining them up and knocking them down. I don't think that's particularly helpful to a healthy server environment, but being the guy everyone wants on their squad could be cool.
It's just a matter of perspective, and from my perspective- where I have mostly been considering engagements that I would personally partake in- a higher TTK seems preferable. Most of my considerations have been for expos, events, or maps that aren't City 24.... so, hopefully that should elaborate my points better.
But- enough yapping from me. I think the majority of issues listed will remain present regardless of TTK. It's just how players play. And- regardless- I think a higher TTK is better for the server overall. Despite being John Rebel with my big bad guns, I'm simply not all in on the whole lower TTK. Playing slow is more fun to me.
That's all. If I've mis-iterated any points on my end I am not reviewing because I cannot be bothered. Please forgive this.
