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Shoot 2 Kill: The worst combat system for HL2RP.

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Sectus said:
Sacrifices have to be made for the greater good of the system. No, S2K isn't legitimate roleplay, but it's a sacrifice we make so that the RP in other areas can be high quality. It prevents pointless, endless arguments.
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These arguments are an actual concern, but thankfully, we now have a system that can allow for S2RP without the arguments.
 
Mateozz said:
you're wrong
it does
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No, it does not.

I've had hundreds of examples of S2RP not working in melee and firearm based combat. Everyone here knows exactly what I'm talking about if they've ever played CP for even a second. Any engagement you get into where a citizen tries to RP attacking you with a pipe or some shit always ends in them arguing in circles about how you're being unfair even when it's whatever situation there can be that out plays them:

- 2-3 CPs vs 1 citizen with a pipe? "I could knock one of you out and break the other's leg before he could react."
- CP is pulling his gun out? "I grabbed your gun so you can't get it out."
- CP already has his gun out? "I knock your gun out of your hand. Drop it or powergame."
- Plus I've literally had a situation where I've already shot a citizen in the leg and they've RP'd having "high bullet resistance".

S2RP in combat situations is always used as an excuse to argue your way around a disadvantageous situation. Any human element to RP in combat will eventually end up this way, regardless of whether it's a cop or a rebel or a bluesuit. It takes way too long and always involved some kind of involvement from a staff member to spend 30 minutes overseeing combat so it's "fair".

The system we have now is fine, and it's the closest we should ever get to S2RP.
 
Sectus said:
-bigpostjuice-
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S2RP with rolling is /slightly/ better for the reasons you said, albeit leaving luck to it can often times leave people angery. I always find it easy to roleplay as a citizen or CP in fights along with being realistic.
And about melee weapons, albeit being a bit of an odd choice, Melee Arts 2 could be used in S2K melee battles if both parties agreed.

It might also be possible to develop an S2K request system of sorts where you are invincible to damage from everybody but the people you select in the fight. Of course it's abusable so it'd need permission from a staff member to do.
 
apple said:
S2RP with rolling is /slightly/ better for the reasons you said, albeit leaving luck to it can often times leave people angery. I always find it easy to roleplay as a citizen or CP in fights along with being realistic.
And about melee weapons, albeit being a bit of an odd choice, Melee Arts 2 could be used in S2K melee battles if both parties agreed.

It might also be possible to develop an S2K request system of sorts where you are invincible to damage from everybody but the people you select in the fight. Of course it's abusable so it'd need permission from a staff member to do.
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has rolled 1 out of 100!
[LOOC] C17:UNION-1.69: Fuck
/me gets fucking obliterated by Rebel, blowing into Pieces

Yeah, I don't like rolling, no thanks. Creates a lot of unfair, luck-based, paranormal stuff that shouldn't be able to happen. i.e. A group of Citizens surrounding you but they all roll lower than you, so they all get destroyed
 
DanteeZe said:
has rolled 1 out of 100!
[LOOC] C17:UNION-1.69: Fuck
/me gets fucking obliterated by Rebel, blowing into Pieces

Yeah, I don't like rolling, no thanks. Creates a lot of unfair, luck-based, paranormal stuff that shouldn't be able to happen. i.e. A group of Citizens surrounding you but they all roll lower than you, so they all get destroyed
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Yeah, while I dislike S2K, I don't think rolling is any better, especially if the odds are not equal. Think about it, you could have the upper hand, a lot of friends backing you up and your character may be strong by nature, but because someone does the dreaded .// ([[, /looc) saying "Roll?" you lose your character, and if you refuse you get blamed for powergame and all types of shit.

Rolling is too random, skill based rolls are ok, even though they can be a bit too RNG as well.

I get it, RNG may be fun, it gives you the ability to actually develop through mistakes and shit, but sometimes rolls just make no sense.
 
The tabletop version is a nice middle ground and I'm sure it'd be nice to have around, even if it does automate your /me's somewhat.
 
Using rolling should only be in situations where it could be plausible where either side can win. P2L can be used if it's a 1v1.
 
apple said:
Using rolling should only be in situations where it could be plausible where either side can win. P2L can be used if it's a 1v1.
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This system is actually at its best when it’s a lower number of combatants. P2L is just S2RP with a masochism mindset. It doesn’t work. Since 1v1 is still a situation where “either side could win,” then tabletop combat should still be used. If one side is likely to lose, the system will reflect that in a way that’s fair and calculated, unlike S2RP which can be abused and made vague and illogical.
 
Equinox said:
This system is actually at its best when it’s a lower number of combatants. P2L is just S2RP with a masochism mindset. It doesn’t work. Since 1v1 is still a situation where “either side could win,” then tabletop combat should still be used. If one side is likely to lose, the system will reflect that in a way that’s fair and calculated, unlike S2RP which can be abused and made vague and illogical.
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I was intending for the P2L situation being something like a unit with a pistol or stunstick/baton vs a citizen with a suitcase or nearby ineffective items to chuck/wield.
 
apple said:
I was intending for the P2L situation being something like a unit with a pistol or stunstick/baton vs a citizen with a suitcase or nearby ineffective items to chuck/wield.
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Right. The Tabletop System can still be used here though. It would accurately reflect a Citizens disadvantage in your scenario since Stunsticks and pistols are better weapons than what the Citizen has.
Like real life though, things are never certain. In most cases the CP would win, but Tabletop means that a Citizen isn’t doomed the moment conflict arises. Perhaps a lucky roll is made? The idea is that no situation has a guaranteed result, but the better trained and equipped are more likely to win.
 
Equinox said:
Right. The Tabletop System can still be used here though. It would accurately reflect a Citizens disadvantage in your scenario since Stunsticks and pistols are better weapons than what the Citizen has.
Like real life though, things are never certain. In most cases the CP would win, but Tabletop means that a Citizen isn’t doomed the moment conflict arises. Perhaps a lucky roll is made? The idea is that no situation has a guaranteed result, but the better trained and equipped are more likely to win.
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All about them skills
 
Equinox said:
God forbid PK's are done through S2K.
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That's it. That's HL2RP in a nutshell.
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I think @Flanders showed a brilliant system. I see it as both a balance of S2RP and S2K, but it can have some improvements.

What about instead of debating between a system of combat, we try and discover or develop a system of taking damage.
After all, that's the whole result of combat (no matter the system we choose or discover in the meantime.

In a similar fashion as the health system in Fallout, depending on where you took damage, and with what weapon, a limb could bleed, become crippled (bone breakage), and a personal touch, an organ could become damaged. Example. Rebel 1 takes a swing at Civ 2, Civ 2 (through a system that isn't S2K, or S2RP, but a different system somewhat like the system Flanders showed us) and Civ would choose to either Block or Fight (in a small timeframe). If Civ 2 attacked, he may end up with a bruised or busted skull. If defended, his arms would take a majority of the hit and may become bruised or crippled.

From there, I believe we can develop a system of combat based on that system of taking damage.
 
@Pyureh

This thread is effectively dead at this point.

The combat system that will be implemented will be a Turn Based System matched to a functional stats system, and its somewhat unlikely to be diverted from that considering the developer that is working on this system has already been paid to create it.
 
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