Steels ban appeal

[Steel]

Steam Name: Steel
SteamID: STEAM_0:1:89966702

Name of the Admin you were banned by: @Hiros
How long is the ban for?: 2023-04-10
The reason you were banned?: “Metagame shotcop”
Why do you wish to be unbanned?: For the simple reason that I didn’t do it. One of the larger issues associated with the start of this appeal is that I have no basis of an argument to make due to the fact that @Hiros refused to tell me what the basis of the evidence against me is so that I may formulate an argument about how it’s not true. I’ve effectively been arrested for theft and the arresting officer can’t even tell me what I stole.

Regardless of the fact that I don’t know how or who I’m suspected of being accused of metagaming with [no such logs exist because I didn’t do it] I guess the only thing I can do is walk you guys through the shot cop which seems to be the act of what I’m suspected of metagaming on?

I’ve been at war with that checkpoint for the longest time. Ever since it has been built I’ve attempted to sabotage it and take it down whenever I can. I’m not alone, lots of people do, it’s a very common thing. I mostly like to take out the frontal camera to ensure that no BOL people are tagged leaving the slums from that area. Which is exactly what my mission was for that run. With my shotgun, I made a run for the door nearby that checkpoint. Once I was there, the very audible beepings of a CP was near the door. It was clear that I was in for a fight. In order to keep in tune with the rules of the server, I typed a /me “ ***Yolkov Reznov pulls the shotgun out, aiming down his sights… aiming it at the lone CP pulling the trigger.” and walked through the door to begin the fight. I saw the CP which had his back exposed to me while he was doing a sit animation away from the door. He was very close. I shot at him, thinking that he was the only one at the checkpoint. After they rounded the corner, I saw that they were clearly not alone, a mistake that almost got me killed. In a panic I made a dash for the sewers to hide from what I thought would be the death of my char.

One of the sticklers about this ban is that it wasn’t a shot cop. I just downed the CP and ran for self preservation after I saw the other cops. I didn’t try to grab his scripts, didn’t try any bs power plays, I just ran. After the ordeal, I even spoke with another staff member, @reece, who told me everything was okay and that I was in the clear as he had been watching the ordeal when it went down. This only added to my confusion when I was hit with the ban much later after the ordeal was over.

So to address this whole concept behind metagaming, since I don’t have any actual understanding of the evidence against me, I’m forced to essentially swing at the air and defend myself without knowing what I’m up against. I can say to check logs to ensure my innocence but I know you have already done that. I know you didn’t find any pms or on server evidence that acts as solid evidence to prove such because of the fact such does not exist. This seems to be the byproduct of speculation that has unfortunately gotten two innocent players banned.

I’m anticipating a situational guess or assumption which could imply an act of metagaming despite the fact that the exact evidence is by no means exclusive to any of the two players banned.

No matter what is posted as evidence, I know none of it is going to be:
1.Direct
2.Tangible
3.Documented
4.Exclusive

It will however contain:

1. Conjecture
2. Incomplete or missing information
3. Baseless claims based upon speculation on out of server platforms
4. A rushed verdict which denies those involved the most basic levels of player to staff comradery.

Do you have any picture or video evidence to support your reason?:



Were there any witnesses who can help in this appeal?: N/A

 

[M!NT]

I'm not going to get into specifics on the evidence yet. That will come in a detailed post later by myself or someone else who wasn't directly involved in this. I will say that there is some evidence that supports it and I don't appreciate you prematurely labeling it all as conjecture and baseless.

I will say though that trying to hop around to different admins in DMs never helps. This is why we prefer to do these things on the forums, as to make sure everyone is on the same page when we discuss bans and ban appeals. That is a standard process. This is why Hiros denied to provide evidence in DMs, and I would've done the same in this situation.

 

[Hiros]

Hello, So here is the evidence as promised. Apologies for the late response I'm currently sick

So, The first thing that popped into my eyes is the lack of IC interaction with anyone around you before the attack and after.

Attaching pictures below

Before the attack



After the attack

---

Here are the time stamps that indicate that there is minimal to no chance to hear the beeps of CPs






At this point the shotcop did happen.

---

From the video evidence provided by @reece we can clearly see some of the hints at meta-game again



The timestamps of the video:
0:00 - Noori Buzid a.k.a @Iqut is seen running towards Yolkov Reznov a.k.a @Steel. Steel is looking at iqut. Keep in mind
0:03 - Shotcop is about to happen and let me quote something from your statement

Once I was there, the very audible beepings of a CP was near the door.

From the video we cannot hear any Vo-coders, and the time-stamps show a minimal chance of you hearing them and vocoders don't travel that
far

0:15 - The CP is downed and again let me quote something from your appeal

I didn’t try to grab his scripts, didn’t try any bs power plays, I just ran.

This is false as we can see you at 0:17 of the video trying to walk in but due to your BOL status you cannot walkthrough

0:18 is when you run away and @Iqut is following you. However from the appeal of @Iqut

I don't understand the reason why I was banned when I'm not concerned in any way in the scene, I was just running around the slums looking for resources for some projects and the only thing that concerned me in the scene was that when I was passing from the slums to HB-3 in order to retrieve and deposit some resources in my apartment, a player started to shoot a PC, leading to his death. the only thing that I did at that moment was to yell to flee the area, thank you for reading.

Iqut claims that he tried to head to HB-3, however, there is an alternative entrance from the area you came. There are claims he did yell for people to run but on the video, we cannot see such action. @Iqut stays behind and doesn't say anything

---

If that's not enough there is an interesting fact that you two were in the sewers at the elevator at 04:09 AM. You two didn't even speak Icly to each other and you only sent one message and that was "Check Under" as seen in time-stamps.

However, the most interesting part is that @Iqut asks some questions, he doesn't receive IC response from you and yet responds with "Oky"

If this doesn't imply that you two were in VC I don't know what else.

Attaching a picture below.

---

 

[Steel]

Going to address each of these claims one at a time.

To begin with, this notion that I was required to speak to someone else before commiting the crime. The reason that I did not speak to the citizen in question or anyone else for that matter was because they were not involved. I didn’t tell anyone “I’m going to go shoot a camera” because I didn’t need to. Also, you completely looked at the wrong place where I was claiming to hear the beeps. I heard the beeps when I entered the corridor to enter the street just moments before the shooting. I never claimed to hear the beeps from the sewers so I’m not sure why you are claiming that. As I said, this wasn’t a shot cop, this was an attempt to take out a camera while dealing with CPs that were on location. Shotcops are often the attempt to murder a CP for the sake of supplies. I did not kill nor take any supplies. I failed to commit property damage which you label as an attempted shotcop.

As for the other innocent person you banned, your assumption that this person is somehow connected with me because of a proximity relation is by no means exclusive just as I predicted. At the time of the shooting, there were two other citizens at the location of the shooting (As seen in the video). Couldn’t either of them also have been in a VC and said “I’m at the checkpoint right now getting searched, come fuck shit up”? You can apply that logic to anybody without having concrete evidence, it’s flawed witch hunting type behavior that has resulted in innocent people receiving false punishments. This is just as I predicted, you are making a baseless claim that still fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I was in a VC with that person in and they in particular were the one who told me of the CPs present on location.

Circumstantial evidence should not be enough to ban someone for two whole weeks for something that clearly has more emotional roots than practical. Reece was kind enough to talk me through the ongoing situation and tell me that I was okay to continue playing after the shooting was over only to be hit with a ban shortly after. Why the other staff that banned me could not have pulled me aside and talked with me like reece did to work this situation out beforehand is very unfortunate.

I was not in a VC with IQUT.
I did not metagame with him.
I have no relation to IQUT.
All evidence present is situational and not at all concrete.

You make the claim that all of this is the most visible and best of evidence that one could muster in a situation like this. It’s not.

The only time such would be deemed acceptable is if you were to have a case like the large uprising event that occurred last year, where you had several community members in another discord talking in VC where screenshots and recordings of them in the VC were present because of someone on the inside and such evidence was given to staff.

That’s how you handle a metagaming situation that is done using third party sources, not “He was close to you in game and you guys didn’t talk!”

You don’t have that in this case because it didn’t happen.

My point still stands.

I’d like to extend an offer to join you all in a VC chat where we can talk in detail about the events of this incident in detail. Preferable with those that were present/on duty at the time of the ordeal if this defense isn’t enough.

I also want to throw in one more thing, for the record, what if I told you that this ordeal with me attempting to render harm onto the checkpoint going wrong and getting into a fight with CPs wasn’t the first?

A deep enough dive into my records with showcase that a few weeks prior to this ordeal, I attempted to molotov the checkpoint from the high-rise of the catwalks nearby. This in turn resulted in a shoot-out with CPs as the attack failed in a similar fashion


I say this to reinforce the fact that this was not a shot cop. I need to stress this because of the fact that people have given me ooc flack for this which I can only openly speculate has been the cause of some of this backlash. People oocly started after the shooting how I should be banned not for the act of “metagaming” but just for the act of the attack alone.

I’ve had worse as far as injustices are concerned across the gamemode of HL2RP. But the aspect of this situation that really upsets me is the fact that another player which I don’t even know has gotten caught in the crossfire of this situation. Someone that I don’t even know is suffering because of this and that makes me feel (to some degree) responsible for fighting to correct this grave mistake that staff have made.

Hello, So here is the evidence as promised. Apologies for the late response I'm currently sick

So, The first thing that popped into my eyes is the lack of IC interaction with anyone around you before the attack and after.

Attaching pictures below

Before the attack
View attachment 20849
View attachment 20851

After the attack
View attachment 20850

---

Here are the time stamps that indicate that there is minimal to no chance to hear the beeps of CPs

View attachment 20853
View attachment 20854
View attachment 20855
View attachment 20856

At this point the shotcop did happen.

---

From the video evidence provided by @reece we can clearly see some of the hints at meta-game again



The timestamps of the video:
0:00 - Noori Buzid a.k.a @Iqut is seen running towards Yolkov Reznov a.k.a @Steel. Steel is looking at iqut. Keep in mind
0:03 - Shotcop is about to happen and let me quote something from your statement


From the video we cannot hear any Vo-coders, and the time-stamps show a minimal chance of you hearing them and vocoders don't travel that
far

0:15 - The CP is downed and again let me quote something from your appeal

This is false as we can see you at 0:17 of the video trying to walk in but due to your BOL status you cannot walkthrough

0:18 is when you run away and @Iqut is following you. However from the appeal of @Iqut



Iqut claims that he tried to head to HB-3, however, there is an alternative entrance from the area you came. There are claims he did yell for people to run but on the video, we cannot see such action. @Iqut stays behind and doesn't say anything

---

If that's not enough there is an interesting fact that you two were in the sewers at the elevator at 04:09 AM. You two didn't even speak Icly to each other and you only sent one message and that was "Check Under" as seen in time-stamps.

However, the most interesting part is that @Iqut asks some questions, he doesn't receive IC response from you and yet responds with "Oky"

If this doesn't imply that you two were in VC I don't know what else.

Attaching a picture below.

View attachment 20857

---

 

[Hiros]

Going to address each of these claims one at a time.

To begin with, this notion that I was required to speak to someone else before commiting the crime. The reason that I did not speak to the citizen in question or anyone else for that matter was because they were not involved. I didn’t tell anyone “I’m going to go shoot a camera” because I didn’t need to. Also, you completely looked at the wrong place where I was claiming to hear the beeps. I heard the beeps when I entered the corridor to enter the street just moments before the shooting. I never claimed to hear the beeps from the sewers so I’m not sure why you are claiming that. As I said, this wasn’t a shot cop, this was an attempt to take out a camera while dealing with CPs that were on location. Shotcops are often the attempt to murder a CP for the sake of supplies. I did not kill nor take any supplies. I failed to commit property damage which you label as an attempted shotcop.

As for the other innocent person you banned, your assumption that this person is somehow connected with me because of a proximity relation is by no means exclusive just as I predicted. At the time of the shooting, there were two other citizens at the location of the shooting (As seen in the video). Couldn’t either of them also have been in a VC and said “I’m at the checkpoint right now getting searched, come fuck shit up”? You can apply that logic to anybody without having concrete evidence, it’s flawed witch hunting type behavior that has resulted in innocent people receiving false punishments. This is just as I predicted, you are making a baseless claim that still fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I was in a VC with that person in and they in particular were the one who told me of the CPs present on location.

Circumstantial evidence should not be enough to ban someone for two whole weeks for something that clearly has more emotional roots than practical. Reece was kind enough to talk me through the ongoing situation and tell me that I was okay to continue playing after the shooting was over only to be hit with a ban shortly after. Why the other staff that banned me could not have pulled me aside and talked with me like reece did to work this situation out beforehand is very unfortunate.

I was not in a VC with IQUT.
I did not metagame with him.
I have no relation to IQUT.
All evidence present is situational and not at all concrete.

You make the claim that all of this is the most visible and best of evidence that one could muster in a situation like this. It’s not.

The only time such would be deemed acceptable is if you were to have a case like the large uprising event that occurred last year, where you had several community members in another discord talking in VC where screenshots and recordings of them in the VC were present because of someone on the inside and such evidence was given to staff.

That’s how you handle a metagaming situation that is done using third party sources, not “He was close to you in game and you guys didn’t talk!”

You don’t have that in this case because it didn’t happen.

My point still stands.

I’d like to extend an offer to join you all in a VC chat where we can talk in detail about the events of this incident in detail. Preferable with those that were present/on duty at the time of the ordeal if this defense isn’t enough.

I also want to throw in one more thing, for the record, what if I told you that this ordeal with me attempting to render harm onto the checkpoint going wrong and getting into a fight with CPs wasn’t the first?

A deep enough dive into my records with showcase that a few weeks prior to this ordeal, I attempted to molotov the checkpoint from the high-rise of the catwalks nearby. This in turn resulted in a shoot-out with CPs as the attack failed in a similar fashion


I say this to reinforce the fact that this was not a shot cop. I need to stress this because of the fact that people have given me ooc flack for this which I can only openly speculate has been the cause of some of this backlash. People oocly started after the shooting how I should be banned not for the act of “metagaming” but just for the act of the attack alone.

I’ve had worse as far as injustices are concerned across the gamemode of HL2RP. But the aspect of this situation that really upsets me is the fact that another player which I don’t even know has gotten caught in the crossfire of this situation. Someone that I don’t even know is suffering because of this and that makes me feel (to some degree) responsible for fighting to correct this grave mistake that staff have made.

Well, as i explained in the DMs a third neutral side will take a look at this and decide whether I've been wrong or not.

If the third neutral side sees this as invalid you will get unbanned.

If it comes to that I'm wrong and misjudged this i do apologize in advance but im not able to decide on the outcome of this.

 

[Steel]

Well, as i explained in the DMs a third neutral side will take a look at this and decide whether I've been wrong or not.

If the third neutral side sees this as invalid you will get unbanned.

If it comes to that I'm wrong and misjudged this i do apologize in advance but im not able to decide on the outcome of this.

Thank you very much for the update. I will say that if it seems as if I'm standoff-ish please know that it comes from a place of genuine intention with a hint of frustration as I attempt to prove my innocence in this manner.

 

[Mc-Crabs]

Hi there @Steel!

We have decided to overlook this punishment and therefore have come to an agreement to lift your ban!