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SUBWAY OVERHAUL

swagile said:
As for this, I believe that Vorts are the only people who deserve a secret base right now, due to this fact.

You literally cannot not be BOL as a Free Vortigaunt, so having a place to fall back to if you get reported is essential.
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I like the idea of a base that's more or less vort-exclusive. Somebody said something about us having to use telekinesis to move a wall or something, and I think that would be a sweet hidden-base that keeps it vort-only.
 
Raptorian said:
We also need safe places for vortigaunts to hide. We get BOL'd for existing. I think the temporary filtering system is alright, as long as we can renew it over time so we have a little RP-Hub in the sewers that doesn't get out of hand and turn into "rebel-town".
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swagile said:
As for this, I believe that Vorts are the only people who deserve a secret base right now, due to this fact.

You literally cannot not be BOL as a Free Vortigaunt, so having a place to fall back to if you get reported is essential.
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I dont know why free vorts dont just use the fake collars and shackles that are in the game specifically to allow them on the surface. They were made so that vorts didnt have to camp in the sewers.
 
Equinox said:
I dont know why free vorts dont just use the fake collars and shackles that are in the game specifically to allow them on the surface. They were made so that vorts didnt have to camp in the sewers.
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A lot of vorts don't wanna risk it. We also just.. Don't wanna be in the city anyways, since we're so restricted. Its not like we can blend in as biotics to get jobs like humans can.
 
I'm going to have to add my input for the whole sewer base thing. I already think the resistance is too circle jerky now, give them a cool secret safe zone in an inhospitable area will just further this disconnect between those of the resistance and the average person, which should be the exact opposite end of what we want. However, past this I do think that scavenging and the spore system itself may need a further look into. I offer no suggestions as to what needs to be worked on, just that it could be much further expanded/improved.
 
lemon said:
stop asking for rebel bases and just infiltrate into the CCA, become a corrupt cp, make a gang and start a gang war, burn down businesses, kidnap and beat collaborators in hidden apartments (yes there's places), turn your business into a secret rebel funding organization, bribe union functionaries (CWU, CP, any) in exchange for favours

its literally so easy to get accepted in any of the in-game factions unlike ny other hl2rp server. stop using the old and boring conventional way of doing rebelrp

if you're angry because you got caught then cope and plan your acts beforehand next time
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You want to know the problem with this mentality though?

You are encouraged to get gear and equipment - it is literally more fun and more inherently rewarding to get a gun and gear and look like a big cool rebel man. That is why most people play a rebel to begin with. You are also encouraged (by the map!) to hide out well away from random patrols and the possibility of snitches or worse.

On top of that, actually using the equipment you work for is suicidal on the main server - you make a response that gets you or others killed anyway.

Pleading like this doesn't change the fact most rebels are BOL'd and have no interest in coming to the city and the bulk of RebelRP is in the sewers/slums.
 
Like I said earlier, I’ll be expanding upon my idea of air pockets in the sewers in another thread. Let’s leave the discussion to the changes in the spore system, scavenging and the breakdowns.
 
Just want to give an update, this is not entirely related, though getting an item from a trash spawn now is buffed by a lot.
 
Raptorian said:
How is it a circlejerk? We openly let people through our base allowing some RP in the sewers.
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Can attest. The vorts are much more open for RP in general than rebels from what I've personally experienced. My little spore bar almost reached max just RPing with the vorts in the sewers.
The only RP I've been able to do with rebels is either them shooting me for wandering into the wrong area.

But I do agree with having more to scavange in the sewers 100% if not at very least increasing the spawn time of the trash a bit more.
 
Ive always found it counterintuitive that we push a long, no roleplay approach like running around in sewers to Crouch + E in order to get the items you need to rebel, when no other faction has this issue; they are either outright given the tools they need to do their job for free, or they roleplay to get said items (CWU have the basics to do their job but if you want to do more you go leadership which gives you a cool redshirt, combine datapad, access to containers, etc. as an example).

Like you are 100% never going to RP with anyone while your Crouch + Eing a trash bag, even if you run into somebody, even if we ignore the whole spore bar, simply because if you stop to RP you lose the chance to get 1 of the limited trash bags, which means you aren't able to do anything rebel-like such as get radios for your crew to communicate, get armor to survive a sweep, etc.

The system should be incredibly fast; like im talking "search trashbag and you find guns, ammo, etc. based on a random percentage level and trash is almost everywhere" level of fast, ala Rust style, so that people who grind all day instead of RP are incentivized to focus on RP.

IDK, something similar because I feel like the systems we have in place were made to be complimentary; secondary to roleplay so as to give Rebels a organic progression system but in return its become completely the dominant system with little to no alternatives (unless you get rogue auths on CP / CWU, theres no other way to get items) so your stuck in this shitty gameplay loop that incentivizes bad players who do not interact with anyone and just cheat the shit out of the system to get ahead while good roleplayers that can bring something to the table and actually roleplay are shut out.

We've tried the best we can with events but im burnt out from trying to patch the burning fire that is RebelRP by simply spraying the fires around it; the system itself is not conductive to good roleplay creation and all we've done is just mask those symptoms.
 
RedHotGinger said:
Vort circlejerks are as bad as any other imo.
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Our circlejerk isn't nearly as bad as rebel circlejerks though, since our main 'base' isn't hidden. Anyone can come inside and interact when we're not running around hunting for antlions. They can even use our crafting bench/mixer if they want. Plus, of course vorts are gonna be sitting in the sewers all day when going to the surface = instant sweep (Yes, even with fake shackles, they'll still come in once dispatch is like "nah fam aint no shackled biotics in the condemned zone!" after some loyalist rats us out)

though of course, human rebels cant sit in the sewers for too long before dying to spores so passiveRP is just a tad limited when it comes to being a free vort.
 
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The Milkman said:
Our circlejerk isn't nearly as bad as rebel circlejerks though, since our main 'base' isn't hidden. Anyone can come inside and interact when we're not running around hunting for antlions. They can even use our crafting bench/mixer if they want. Plus, of course vorts are gonna be sitting in the sewers all day when going to the surface = instant sweep (Yes, even with fake shackles, they'll still come in once dispatch is like "nah fam aint no shackled biotics in the condemned zone!" after some loyalist rats us out)

though of course, human rebels cant sit in the sewers for too long before dying to spores so passiveRP is just a tad limited when it comes to being a free vort.
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The eternal free vort problem.

Can't go up to surface cause of snitches / random sweeps, can't stay in sewers cause you get called a circle jerker even though thats the only way you can get roleplay.

We really cannot blame vort players for the way they have formed when we, as staff, have given no clear solutions to the issues that prevail the faction.

Thats my take, at least.
 
swagile said:
Ive always found it counterintuitive that we push a long, no roleplay approach like running around in sewers to Crouch + E in order to get the items you need to rebel, when no other faction has this issue; they are either outright given the tools they need to do their job for free, or they roleplay to get said items (CWU have the basics to do their job but if you want to do more you go leadership which gives you a cool redshirt, combine datapad, access to containers, etc. as an example).
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I mean now that I think about it, no other faction's goal is entirely "disruptive" to the main bulk of the server - even Cops spend more time walking around enforcing things and doing passive than they do sweeping, they have a role that sort of involved 90% of the rest of the server.

But The Resistance is designed around making conflict by nature - conflict that is inherently inherently 200% more interesting than CityRP as a whole and if you make it super easy access via easy guns? You've seen the outcome yourself more than once as more and more people flock to it and suddenly shooting cops becomes a daily pastime for fun.

Armed RebelRP is that weird stepchild where you're shooting yourself in the foot to give them everything they need at once but by stretching it out you're crippling it.
 
Rabid said:
I mean now that I think about it, no other faction's goal is entirely "disruptive" to the main bulk of the server - even Cops spend more time walking around enforcing things and doing passive than they do sweeping, they have a role that sort of involved 90% of the rest of the server.

But The Resistance is designed around making conflict by nature - conflict that is inherently inherently 200% more interesting than CityRP as a whole and if you make it super easy access via easy guns? You've seen the outcome yourself more than once as more and more people flock to it and suddenly shooting cops becomes a daily pastime for fun.

Armed RebelRP is that weird stepchild where you're shooting yourself in the foot to give them everything they need at once but by stretching it out you're crippling it.
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OK well id rather that with heavy consequences by CP's for doing this than a boring 24/7 passive RP experience.

We might as well fully replace rebels with admin rebels only if thats your take on things. (that dies faster than what we have right now as admins burn out)
 
swagile said:
OK well id rather that with heavy consequences by CP's for doing this than a boring 24/7 passive RP experience.

We might as well fully replace rebels with admin rebels only if thats your take on things. (that dies faster than what we have right now as admins burn out)
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I'm not saying you aren't right, I'm just saying that this is really not an easy issue to solve whatever way you slice it. I don't envy the position you guys are in on trying to solve it.

You'll probably get more people doing things if gear is super easy to get but then again you very well may just get a worse hoarding problem or a situation where RebelRP becomes a traditional black hole where everyone realises guns are super easy to get and its inherently a thousand times more fun than sitting doing passive and so the city suffers more.

WN's systems were clearly built around the idea that people would have a reason to stay in the slums, that becoming an armed sewer rebel would be so discouraged it wasn't worth it and they'd have the drive to let their characters die. Sadly none of those have come to pass but all three of these things are so ingrained I'm struggling to see an alternative.
 
soneil3 said:
I'm going to have to add my input for the whole sewer base thing. I already think the resistance is too circle jerky now, give them a cool secret safe zone in an inhospitable area will just further this disconnect between those of the resistance and the average person, which should be the exact opposite end of what we want. However, past this I do think that scavenging and the spore system itself may need a further look into. I offer no suggestions as to what needs to be worked on, just that it could be much further expanded/improved.
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partally correct, however those of us that don't want to be circlejerky, get fucked in the ass because we try to include citizens in rp then immediately "OH HEY I GET GOOD BOY POINTS FOR REPORTING THEM" Then those of us that are caught rping with us during a sweep, get pk'd or shot the fuck up. Thats not fair. So yeah. Its circle jerky or seems that way because people who dont do that get fucked by assholes who just wander into the slums for the sole purpose of reporting rebels. So in the big picture there, you're not gonna openly rp with the average civ because units can be real fucking assholes, you dont want to lose months of progress when a unit can just be given a SMG, body armor, armor repair kits and grenades to raid us.

All in all, there's literally no reason to rp with civs on the surface in a meaningful way. Because in the end you just get fucked in the ass and risk your character.
 
The first needs a closer look by a dev since I am not sure simple value changes can do what this suggestion wants with justice.

The second I can look into with Votton.

We have limited developer focus and their interests lie elsewhere at this time, so thats the most we can reliably do from my understanding.
 
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one point has been done

now we must wait for our deliverance
 
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