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Suggestions for Improving CvR Engagements

Janek

Janek

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Messages
67
Following recent events, undoubtedly the September 19th raid on The Front's base, I'd like to propose solutions to address some noteworthy issues in the Combine vs Rebels (CvR) engagements seen. The goal is to promote fairness, have rules clarified, and improve the player experience for both factions. These suggestions aim to tackle problems like wave timer disputes, inconsistent permakill (PK)/New Life Rule (NLR) rulings, raid justifications and missed roleplay (RP) opportunities.

Suggestions

1. Clarify and Enforce Wave Timer Rules (Ref: Guidelines Section 6, Rule 3.2 General Scale Crimes):
Rule 3.2 mandates a 10-minute cooldown between waves for "general scale" crimes, but the recent raid saw an Overwatch Transhuman Arm (OTA) wave deployed 5-8 minutes after a Civil Protection (CivPro) response sweep's defeat, disrupting roleplay like hostage negotiations. Confusion arose over whether the initial sweep was "generic" or a "response" to a crime, as it was claimed to be generic, while a dispatch player called it a response sweep.

Proposals:
  • Define Sweep Types: Update Rule 3.2 to explicitly define "generic" (e.g. routine patrols with no specific IC trigger) vs "response" sweeps (e.g. triggered by reported crimes, defeated waves, or specific IC events like spotting rebels). Specify or clarify whether response sweeps always trigger a 10-minute cooldown.
  • Admin Oversight: Require a staff member to monitor high-stakes CvR engagements (e.g. base raids) to enforce the 10-minute timer, using in-game logs or timers to verify.
2. Standardize PK/NLR Rulings (Ref: PK Policy Section Sweep* PK's & NLR):
The PK Policy outlines specific PK scenarios and NLR conditions, but the raid saw inconsistent rulings; responding rebels were PKed, while base defenders and Combine players received NLR, some without refunds. This contradicts the PK Policy's "Not an involved party, but engaged in combat = NLR (no refund)" rule.

Proposals:
  • Define an example in the "Example Scenario" column for "Not an involved party, but engaged in combat = NLR".
  • Pre-Approval for PKs: Require a large staff-wide pre-approval for PKs in major raids, especially for responders, to align with the PK Policy's emphasis on fair and warranted PKs.
3. Promote Situational Roleplay Over Combat:
The rapid OTA deployment disrupted roleplay opportunities (e.g. hostage negotiations, evacuation planning and MedRP).

Proposals:
  • Hostage Protocols: Add a guideline requiring Combine forces to attempt negotiations for High IC Value Characters before escalating, unless IC circumstances justify immediate action.
  • Leader Training: Provide training for faction leaders (e.g. OTA lead(s)) on balancing combat and RP, with mentorship from senior staff and the like.
4. Mitigate Dual-Role Conflicts (Ref: Guidelines Section 2, Metagaming):
Players holding both rebel and Combine roles risk metagaming, as speculated in several instances, when many rebels were offline (The Front Raid as a notable example).

Proposals:
  • Role Restrictions: Amend Section 2 to prohibit players from holding leadership roles in opposing factions (e.g. Rebel Group and CivPro commander) to minimize metagaming risks and conflicts of interest.
  • Activity Monitoring: Require players to declare active factions during major events, with admins tracking logoffs/switches for potential metagaming or changes due to conflicts of interest (e.g. switching off Combine when certain rebels are active).
5. Enhance Staff-Player Transparency :
Some players feel uninformed about staff decisions (e.g. raid approvals, PK rulings), leading to mistrust.

Proposals:
  • Event Debriefs: After events such as sweeps and/or raids, post brief admin summaries on the Willard Networks (WN) Discord or forums (e.g. "Raid approved per IC scout report; PKs issued per PK Policy...) to clarify decisions without necessarily naming players.
  • Private Feedback Channel: Create a ticket system for the WN's Discord server for players to submit rule and decision concerns directly.

Please share your thoughts to refine these suggestions. Thank you for reading.
 
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I think the general S2K mindset is detrimental to server health but that's just me.
 
The staff and development teams have shown time and time again that they are unable or unwilling to add consistent and sustainable alternatives to the current "grind, fight, die" loop that has prevailed for the last several years on Willard. At least 60% of the gameplay systems revolve around either S2K gameplay or the acquisition of resources and materiel for S2K gameplay.

Whether it's the result of laziness, apathy, or a fear of definitive change in the status quo, it's ultimately the fault of admins and player leaders that the system is the way that it is. It is also their responsibility to gather feedback and implement actual meaningful changes that provide alternatives that funnel players into other aspects of roleplay. Right now, they seem to be content with the CvR dynamic, as (again) practically every gameplay-oriented, sustainable system is explicitly combat-oriented.

When I say "staff and devs," I am not referring to every individual specifically. I'm sure there are several staff members who agree with what I'm saying and want to see a change. At some point up the chain, however, every idea or push for change is stopped dead in its tracks or inadvertently forgotten. I think this is the result of a generally disparate, oversized staff team where the members are rarely on the same page and can never implement changes because of that.
 
i'd go even a step further and say that the constant emphasis on s2k prevailing over roleplay, both in cvr but also in the overall server narrative, is what causes this constant cycle of "s2k > giant shitshow that leaves no one happy > mass pk appeal accepted > back to status quo > repeat". the server has yet to see any lasting effort to change the general formula of cvr because the s2k nature of the server allows for the staff and event teams to be pretty hands off, which reinforces this dull cycle.

aside from a few specific cases, there is little opportunity and reason for cops / loyalists and rebels to interact with each other outside of s2k. from a rebel perspective, what is the point of infiltrating into combine society if you won't be able to do any serious damage because of some made up excuses a la server stability? you can do something much less risky and more destructive by just participating in s2k slop. this goes the same way for cops too, the avenues for meaningful roleplay in cvr are so limited that they might as well not even exist for 99% of the server.

it's time to admit, i think, that continuing to base the server's story on s2k is a horrible idea that only drives people away and reinforces factional toxicity. there's no point in changing timer details, adding conflict of interest rules, bettering staff transparency, etc when it still all remains in the framework of a really shitty combat system. no matter how you cut it, it still loops back to both ends of the spectrum becoming tribalists that only want to ruin the other person's day, completely disregarding both narrative and character development. as for citizen (so the majority of the server) participation in the narrative, it's so nonexistant that the main story of the server might as well be background noise.
 
Ginger said:
Make all gunfights be S2RP, no one will want to do them.
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S2K is fun (and better than S2RP) but it’s not supposed to be the selling point for the server. Engagements between players should be rare and meaningful and if you want a no stakes S2K fix ask for an admin to spawn a couple fast zombies or poison headcrabs in the sewers.
 
verTix said:
S2K is fun (and better than S2RP) but it’s not supposed to be the selling point for the server. Engagements between players should be rare and meaningful and if you want a no stakes S2K fix ask for an admin to spawn a couple fast zombies or poison headcrabs in the sewers.
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Entities are too resource intensive. Spawn 30 antlions nearly at once and watch latency spike from 100 to 300. xd
 
S2RP is more fun because you can do things and RP things out. In S2K it is as if I was just on another FPS game. Why would I want that if I specifically play this server for RP and being able to do your own thing? And half the time, even in the videos of the rebels fighting combine, we see people do failRP by jumping around, running after being shot, going side to side constantly.
 
If we are going to play into S2K make it a bitch to do, make it so that no one wants to fight unless it is forced or has a good chance of working (ambushes). Most of the time it sucks to get shot and you will only be able to do so much after so many hits.
 
Maybe just make it so that if you have been shot in a certain recent time and your health is below a number then you get slowed and your screen has an effect, stop allowing people to act as if this is a FPS game, it is not.
 
ford-michigan said:
If we are going to play into S2K make it a bitch to do, make it so that no one wants to fight unless it is forced or has a good chance of working (ambushes). Most of the time it sucks to get shot and you will only be able to do so much after so many hits.
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I like this idea.
 
S2RP is hard to control with more than 6 players, let alone when it comes to two opposing parties. I've done S2RP in many StalkerRP servers and they do well with 6 players, but when you do it with more than 8 players, you'll lose track easily of who's doing what and where. And I'm sure it's one hell of a pain in the ass for GMs to manage this. Unless the turn-based combat system comes back into play and modified for the S2RP aspects.
 
I mean S2K can work for large fights if we just make it a real pain to do character wise. Just make people get slowed down the more they get shot and have their vison and aim be bad. Then for S2RP you just RP it all and it works out anyway. I am not saying just S2K or just S2RP, have a bit of both. S2K is good for sudden attacks if it is one person or if there is a large scale battle. S2RP is good for everything else, S2K used to not be the default at least for more in city stuff, I don't know why it has become the default. It is also quite annoying to see PK appeals and the like and then in logs and recordings right after CPs and combine get downed they are dragged away and "stripped for parts". Like why are y'all taking loot from them? I get if you are just starting out and you find one dead on the ground or if you need equipment, but most of the time it is a fully kitted out rebel just swimming in loot just to shotcop again, then complain when they die because they were greedy? I get the recent one with the base defense but still, with the combine it should not and is not a hold your ground situation. It is a "holy shit we are going to die, run" situation, even people on the radio and in game were telling people to run but instead they dragged more people to die defending a one entrance base.
 
Deek29 said:
The children yearn for TBC



im the children
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This tbh

I've been a big advocate for the return of TBC - even if it's ENTIRELY redone from the ground up. It was THE selling point for combat in the server and what attracted (in my opinion) a good amount of people to the server.

But now I look and just see the same cycle repeated in a 2 week cycle. Rebels get gear, shotcop/peek too far, get swept, get PK'd, mass PK appeals, and repeat. It makes me tired seeing these despite not even playing RebelRP. It makes me even afraid to start doing RebelRP because if I get caught in that same cycle, it's the only thing I'm gonna be doing.

Break the cycle, please.
 
verTix said:
The staff and development teams have shown time and time again that they are unable or unwilling to add consistent and sustainable alternatives to the current "grind, fight, die" loop that has prevailed for the last several years on Willard.
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Because, unfortunately, it works - people keep playing to grind, fight and die no matter how many complaints happen, whereas changing the formula too much risks people not playing and hurting Willard's metaphorical bottom line. Willard isn't unique in doing this; most of the remaining CityRP servers work much the same way.

The other problem? Guns are just inherently more rewarding than almost anything else. I could do a complex campaign of propaganda to try and sway people who don't want to OOCly be swayed, or I could grind up for some rebel gear, be one of the cool guys and shoot cops. There was a period of time where Willard made the passive side more appealing but that was gradually squashed and strangled in favor of attracting a broader lot of semi-serious Impulse players who would be more inticed to stay around because of the "RPG" elements were front-and-center.

And while this change worked (in raw playercount the numbers are generally as good as ever) quite a lot of the people responsible for helping things initially take shape left a long time ago over the direction they saw the community going.
 
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