Tackling the 'Complete Encyclopedia' / Sections 1-2

[bill]

HOLY FUCK
HERE WE GO
Revision Suggestion Version 1: September 22, 2020.

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Too long; won't read (overarching problems):

1. There is too much information. Even for a complete encyclopedia, there can be zero expectation that anybody besides the author could tackle, consume and digest all of this information for use in playing on and writing for the server in any other capacity. It's ridiculous.
2. The denial of Half Life Alyx's events makes sense, but in reality has little impact on the server. Why not allow for the Vault to fall and crack open, allowing for intervention on the part of the staff team if deemed necessary, in arbitrary ways?
3. The inclusion of information such as being 'known by very few, if anyone at all' is pointless. This classification of information has zero impact on anyone who would probably read the document, and you would be better off not having it or having an in-lore explanation for it being more well known.
4. It's too god-damned long.

---

SECTION 1: THE TIMELINE AND FOUNDATIONS
This section, for good reason, makes or breaks suspension of disbelief. Let's see what we've got.​

though reliable teleportation to and from Xen is now rendered impossible. The Combine have now discovered the presence of Earth.

You've now stated that immediately upon the Resonance Cascade's occurrence, the Combine are aware of Earth's existence and current residence. What's stopping from them invading immediately? Why wouldn't they? It's not as if they care about a ground-level resistance, seeing as it didn't make any difference from what we're aware of. Seven hours or seven days, the Combine don't care. They see territory, they see planets -- as far as we're to understand, they take it upon its discovery. Revise it to the Combine discovering Earth later, or shorten the time between the RC and the 7HW.

This is a period of famine, uncertainty, and wide scale death at the hands of Xenian entities. Doctor Breen during this time has elevated to a position of power, and is attempting to unify the entirety of Earth into one nation,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Breen explicitly mentioned in game-lore as only becoming a leader/even being considered once the Earth surrenders, and not beforehand? It's very bold of you to suggest that anyone would even try to unify all of the Earth's nations to fold into one.

Any citizens found to have served as a combatant in the Seven Hour War are forced into conscript forces. From this point onward, any citizen who is found to have prior military status is eligible for random conscription, though this is usually only found through self admission.

If you're going to have conscripts that aren't trans-humanized, which is already a controversial take, then it should be open fact. With the amount of active military personnel that serve globally, and through word of mouth, it would not be a secret that these people are dragged off for use by the Combine.

they begin abducting children, starting with the youngest. This continued for over a year, until late 2008 when 17 year olds were finally taken. Any children found afterwards are also taken. These children are sent to "Education Facility: ECHELON", a re-education center

If you attempt to take children from their parents, globally, on a coordinated scale, there would be global rioting. Everywhere. Without fail. It would be a stronger resistance than the one we see in Half-Life 2. This is a ridiculous lore point, and I'm not sure how it survived anyone's scrutiny.

The Global Union Administration (GUA) is established across the globe. The Combine now has an official government established over Earth.
The Union Logistics Committee (ULC) is established across the globe, marking the Combine's true mastery of infrastructure and resource collection on planet Earth.

Firstly, the Combine don't need some lame-ass bureaucracy of government to affirm their rule. They won a war. They run your life.

With concern to logistics, if you're going to have Dispatch be a prevalent factor in the server, which the rest of the lore seems to indicate, then it should be in charge of these things. The Combine don't make use of cubicles and office spaces to coordinate train times. They use an artificial intelligence that does it for them. They're an inter-dimensional, space-faring empire. Not 1997-era USA.

The Union Planetary Research Directive (UPRD) is formed as the Combine relocate Citizens with self-admitted backgrounds in science. The Combine began in-depth research on Earth, including its flora and fauna both terrestrial and extraterrestrial, as well as new technology research and containment of Xenian anomalies.

Judith Mossman's collaboration with the Combine is treated more like an abnormality than a usual occurrence. I find it hard to believe that there's a secret 'Combine Black Mesa' pumping out research for the innovation of Combine tech when, again, they're an inter-dimensional space faring empire.

April 2009: Civil Protection begins employing brutal methods of policing in order to better control the global population.

No shit.

May 2010: Overwatch AI completed after Combine expedition into Aperture Science.

No.

SECTION 1 CONCLUSION: HOLY FUCK.
A lot of this section needs to lay groundwork, and it fucks up pretty catastrophically.​

---

SECTION 2: LIFE INSIDE THE CITIES
Hearts of Iron 4 Rots Your Brain or: How I Learned to Stop Thinking and Love The Union
​

if a Citizen is unable to work because of a disability, they are declared physically or mentally unfit (depending on what keeps them from working) and subsequently executed.​

Why wouldn't the Combine just...let them die? If they can't work, they probably can't feed themselves. Why put in the effort to kill them?

The Combine is a totalitarian empire at its core.

The Combine structure themselves as a Nationalist Republic however.

NO.

The Union doesn't prescribe itself as 'nationalist', or what-have-you. They're a space-faring inter-dimensional empire. Their whole shtick is that you are supposed to ascend above to the stars, to some sort of ethereal high-plane. The hidden aspect is that entails becoming a cog in the Union's machine, be it a trans-humanized soldier, or a stalker, or whatever-the-fuck. This is positively retarded.

The Combine presents themselves as a "Universal Union". This form of government isn't truly elaborated on to Citizens.

This phrasing is correct, but you somehow confuse it in the two previous lines. They describe themselves as a Universal Union. It's not a government you participate in. It is a ruling authority that runs your life.

The Combine are atheistic in religion, but are not exactly secular. While the Combine do not speak of gods, the Combine enforce a belief in the "Benefactors", which are essentially the Combine "species" beyond humanity that exists above humanity.

The Benefactors, commonly referred to as "Our Benefactors", are heavily revered amongst the loyal citizens of Earth, and often seen as similar to how one would see a god.

If they're enforcing this belief in Half-Life 2, they're doing a pretty shit job, given that everyone's just depressed and surviving day-to-day. It's more than likely just reserved for something that loyalists exert all of their energy on. Additionally, referring to them as "Our Benefactors" is more than likely just a rhetorical flourish, not a dogmatic title for them.

See my own thread and theories on this here: https://forum.terranova-rp.com/index.php?threads/hahn-and-the-transhumanist-cult-of-the-combine.1109/

City Economy and Supply

The Global Union Administration

The Collaborator's Party

These whole sections are frustrating from a lore perspective but necessary from a gameplay/player-retention aspect, so I'll make a separate thread on them. But they have their own issues we'll likely see in time.

Biotic Workforce

I've never been a fan of, or participated in, Vortigaunt RP. No comment.

The Civil Protection are part of "Overwatch", which is a term referring to all Combine military and paramilitary on Earth. Essentially another word for "military".

I think you'll find, as we did at TERRANOVA, that having the Civil Protection be under a Ministry provides for much more interesting interactions between the branches of 'civilized' Combine society, as opposed to having a military arm crush down on it all.

Civil Protection are referred to by the government as "peacekeepers", and "guardians of society against those who want to destroy it."

The double-think is in the name. I don't think it needs any more layers.

SECTION 2 CONCLUSION: FINE, MOSTLY.
A lot of this section seems to just put ideas forward without justifying them. I have a lot to say about the Bureaucracy / 'CAB' / Loyalists, but that will be separate.​

---

SECTION 3: THE WORLD OUTSIDE OF THE CITIES
A Lesson in Worldbuilding and Hiding Secrets

TBD. Probably gonna do a new thread? IDK.​

 

[Lorax]

yeah why the fuck is this shit a mess. I don't wanna spend 4 years of my life reading useless lore that makes ZERO sense. I don't mean to be mean but I was absolutely furious reading the lore. Its like you guys took nothing from half life alyx. GRRRR OTA ROBOTS GRRRR

 

[TheDeNuke]

Let me address literally everything on this page before Equinox gets back.

Section 1:

1. Correct. That needs to be changed ASAP since its a idiotic statement by its very nature. The Combine should only discover Earth weeks before the SHW.

2. Breen should logically be barely considered a political figure before the Seven Hour War as per the other Lore Document (RAD-X's one). He is effectively appointed to some out of the way position in the UN regarding cleaning up the mess that his facility made. Equinox had jumped the gun in saying that he was actually in a true position of power but in reality he was not controlling the strings at all. At least until his influence built up to a point where upon the day of the Seven Hour War he was able to negotiate a surrender by effectively marching into the UN with his very limited supporter base and taking over.

3. Conscripts have been slowly transitioned out and replaced by OTA over the years. Conscripts were effectively the initial "security force" until mass-trans-humanization could occur and by the events of HL2 they are basically non-existent. The existence of the conscripts should be a open fact, but the fact that they are being slowly replaced is not.

4. ECHELON is a annoying point of lore but we are quite literally trapped into the "no kids in cities" logic presented in the half-life series. This was the only valid resolution outside of just killing all of them which would have been far worse then kidnapping.

5. All governments have bureaucracy and we are not going to literally meme bureaucracy out of existence. Even the most hyper-totalitarian societies in some of the most horrifying timelines ever created in the history of fiction have some form of bureaucracy. They run your life, but running a life means that you need something somewhere to run your life with. Deal with it.

The logistics committee on the other hand is just a name. Its mostly automated with a very small number of humans in the organization to pull the correct levers. In-fact, the very flaw of the logistics committee is just how automated and efficient it is and how the collapse of this organization would effectively send the entire world into shit.

6. The Combine are not gods and needs local research on a dimension by dimension basis due to different physical laws in each universe. Nor are they a "space fairing" empire in the common sense. @Equinox can explain further.

7. No shit indeed.

8. Eh. I'm not a fan of that either since I'm of the opinion that Aperture Science should remain sealed.

Section 2:

1. That seems to be a reference to our CP system and how individuals such as that are treated rather then a point of lore. This could be changed but that's mostly up to @Spine.

2. You are correct there. Why the hell would the Combine be considered a nationalist republic? Where the hell is the nationalism?

3. I don't like the word "Universal Union" even being used anywhere. I believe Laidlaw at one point said he regretted that it was even in Breen's Speech.

4. /me nods

5. I can't wait for your feedback regarding our Gameplay Systems.

6. Some people like Vortigaunts. Some don't. Eh.

7. Fun fact. The Overseer is actually the "Minister of Civil Protection" and effectively acts as the head of that "Ministry". If someone wants to talk to the "Minister of Civil Protection" they usually get pointed in the direction of this guy. The Overseer can also take orders from the Civil Adminstration most of the time unless they are contrary to the directives of Dispatch or in emergency situations (in which the Overwatch AI has full control).

That should be it for now. It seems Equinox has finally got someone willing to go full barrels against him.

Lets see where this goes...

 

[Deleted user]

1. That seems to be a reference to our CP system and how individuals such as that are treated rather then a point of lore. This could be changed but that's mostly up to @@Spine.

We're just going to kill them / bully the poor boys until they die eitherway. Dont see a reason to wait and have them occupy space while they try their best to roll around in a wheelchair.

3. I don't like the word "Universal Union" even being used anywhere. I believe Laidlaw at one point said he regretted that it was even in Breen's Speech.

I did specify that at the start, it sounds kinda bad.

Don't forget. At the end of the day, to think about the gameplay and how ppl usually act in gmod when changing the lore. If you wish to change anything

 

[KingOfCowards]

Tact (Noun) -
adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues.

Your points are being drowned out by a need to be needlessly confrontational rather than providing constructive criticism. I suggest you refer to the above word.

Anyways:

1. There is too much information. Even for a complete encyclopedia, there can be zero expectation that anybody besides the author could tackle, consume and digest all of this information for use in playing on and writing for the server in any other capacity. It's ridiculous.
2. The denial of Half Life Alyx's events makes sense, but in reality has little impact on the server. Why not allow for the Vault to fall and crack open, allowing for intervention on the part of the staff team if deemed necessary, in arbitrary ways?
3. The inclusion of information such as being 'known by very few, if anyone at all' is pointless. This classification of information has zero impact on anyone who would probably read the document, and you would be better off not having it or having an in-lore explanation for it being more well known.
4. It's too god-damned long.

Point one, three, and four work against one-another. Furthermore, point 1 and 4 restate the same exact concept. Now, this leaves point three - despite the information not being known it sets a clear precedent for the style of this server and theme. Putting more information out there actually leads to more player unity rather than everyone RPing there own flavor of HL2RP. Besides, the lore being "too long" seemingly should not matter if much of the lore would not be known IC. No-one is forcing you to understand anything but the basics (which is why specific things are highlighted as such). After-all, this is an encyclopedia for a reason - it's a comprehensive history of this rendition of HL2RP.

What are you expecting? 5 paragraphs for each faction explaining information everyone already understands?

I think your main complaint in your following points can be summed up by two things:

1.) You were not involved in the creative process.

2.) You are needlessly trying to bend things to your perceived standard.

You've now stated that immediately upon the Resonance Cascade's occurrence, the Combine are aware of Earth's existence and current residence. What's stopping from them invading immediately? Why wouldn't they? It's not as if they care about a ground-level resistance, seeing as it didn't make any difference from what we're aware of. Seven hours or seven days, the Combine don't care. They see territory, they see planets -- as far as we're to understand, they take it upon its discovery. Revise it to the Combine discovering Earth later, or shorten the time between the RC and the 7HW.

In general, the affairs of the combine and their exact reasoning for doing X Y or Z is generally up in the air. There can be numerous reasons why they held back on an invasion. Maybe Earth was a lower priority and they were already invading 500 other places? Maybe it takes time for them to physically travel to Earth? You are making the bold assumption that "awareness" constitutes an immediate invasion. I do not see how this is a point of bother or contention.

Furthermore, the combines method of travel/invasion is spotty. At the end of HL2 EP2 the super-portal is the main method of calling reinforcements and it gets thwarted. I believe you are vastly overestimating the combine speed and ignoring the concrete precedent set in the game. It is reasonable to assume there method of travel is not like flying a plane to another country - otherwise they would have had reinforcements to thwart the uprising displayed in HL2 rather quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Breen explicitly mentioned in game-lore as only becoming a leader/even being considered once the Earth surrenders, and not beforehand? It's very bold of you to suggest that anyone would even try to unify all of the Earth's nations to fold into one.

Ever hear of globalism? Additionally, you are ignoring the statement made at the beginning of the lore that certain liberties are taken. I think this sets up the setting in a manner that makes Dr. Breen a target of interest and justifies his ascension.

If you're going to have conscripts that aren't trans-humanized, which is already a controversial take, then it should be open fact. With the amount of active military personnel that serve globally, and through word of mouth, it would not be a secret that these people are dragged off for use by the Combine.

I can agree that this lore-point is a bit confusing. I believe the end of yellow-coded information does state: "These points are usually easier to find however if the circumstances are right."

I believe what this lore-point is attempting to get across is that the combine does not openly speak about conscription for whatever reason. I think this needs to be expanded on a bit.

If you attempt to take children from their parents, globally, on a coordinated scale, there would be global rioting. Everywhere. Without fail. It would be a stronger resistance than the one we see in Half-Life 2. This is a ridiculous lore point, and I'm not sure how it survived anyone's scrutiny.

Oh, what happens eventually in Half-Life lore? I don't know... an uprising on a mass-scale? I think the removal of children from their parents on a mass-scale would be a major point of hatred almost everyone would harbor inside them. You go on to negate this point about "global rioting" when you state that the combine won the war so they can do whatever they want. I agree - they are so powerful initially that they can do whatever they want, set demands, and so on.

Including taking all of Earth's children and suppressing the population. After-all, it only took seven hours to cause the surrender of Earth's major military forces.

Firstly, the Combine don't need some lame-ass bureaucracy of government to affirm their rule. They won a war. They run your life.

With concern to logistics, if you're going to have Dispatch be a prevalent factor in the server, which the rest of the lore seems to indicate, then it should be in charge of these things. The Combine don't make use of cubicles and office spaces to coordinate train times. They use an artificial intelligence that does it for them. They're an inter-dimensional, space-faring empire. Not 1997-era USA.

Correction: they might be an inter-dimensional space faring empire, but you must understand that their core-force leaves Earth behind as an occupied territory. The best thing to govern humans, is well, humans. They set-up the framework, rules, systems, and so on that humanity is to be governed by then left.

Furthermore, dispatch seems to be only concerned with civil-protection and overwatch. You also assume that the logistics group presented in this lore does not involve dispatch.

I think what is presented here is logical. It makes much more sense to still have frameworks that make up our human systems that we have been governed by for thousands of years rather than going like "super-ai runs everything." If there interdimensional empireness was really a primary reason why we would not have logistical systems, then why are humans still alive? Couldn't they just use their super-ai and technology to take resources from Earth without occupation?

Judith Mossman's collaboration with the Combine is treated more like an abnormality than a usual occurrence. I find it hard to believe that there's a secret 'Combine Black Mesa' pumping out research for the innovation of Combine tech when, again, they're an inter-dimensional space faring empire.

Oh, so why did they need to capitalize on Earth's mistake to get to us if they have no more technology to develop?

It has been confirmed that the "interdimensional empire" you are harping on have never been able to penetrate Apeture Science because of one human made AI. This proves that humanity still has much to develop.

Why is an interdimensional super awesome empire arming their forces with human weapons? Why do they even need us? Why not use robots to control us?

You are vastly blowing the combine out of proportion to a level not thematically in-line with what is actually going on. Yes, they absolutely dominated Earth, but it was one weary and battered already.

Why wouldn't the Combine just...let them die? If they can't work, they probably can't feed themselves. Why put in the effort to kill them?

Agreed.

NO.

The Union doesn't prescribe itself as 'nationalist', or what-have-you. They're a space-faring inter-dimensional empire. Their whole shtick is that you are supposed to ascend above to the stars, to some sort of ethereal high-plane. The hidden aspect is that entails becoming a cog in the Union's machine, be it a trans-humanized soldier, or a stalker, or whatever-the-fuck. This is positively retarded.

Considering you want to call this retarded - then I will call your interpretation of this lore-bit retarted.

What was actually being said is the "Combine government on Earth is structured as a Nationalistic Republic." The ideas about transhumanism, ascension, and so on are purely conjecture and player-reasoning for combine motives. We only know that much of the combine technology is focused on the transhumanization of various entities.

Effectively, what this lore was actually saying is the government that humans are immediately concerned with, the civil administration and such, is structured in such a manner.

If they're enforcing this belief in Half-Life 2, they're doing a pretty shit job, given that everyone's just depressed and surviving day-to-day. It's more than likely just reserved for something that loyalists exert all of their energy on. Additionally, referring to them as "Our Benefactors" is more than likely just a rhetorical flourish, not a dogmatic title for them.

Refer to the start of the lore. You can disagree that this is not the best idea, but it was stated that liberties are taken for their own rendition of HL2.

I think you'll find, as we did at TERRANOVA, that having the Civil Protection be under a Ministry provides for much more interesting interactions between the branches of 'civilized' Combine society, as opposed to having a military arm crush down on it all.

Oh, so where did your idea of absolute dispatch control space faring empire that doesn't need human bureaucratic systems go?

I too think this is a good idea, but we need to give these guys room to write their own lore and systems. A merge might be happening, but no one is forcing you to stay here.

Equinox (and I assume others) put much effort into writing this. You can poke holes in just about anything if you want to. Like how I poked holes in your arguments. Respect his effort and formulate your ideas in a more constructive manner.

 

[Deleted user]

Equinox (and I assume others) put much effort into writing this. You can poke holes in just about anything if you want to. Like how I poked holes in your arguments. Respect his effort and formulate your ideas in a more constructive manner.

Damn, jesus. Alright. My respect.

 

[AbeBatJes]

What's stopping from them invading immediately? Why wouldn't they?

It's not that they aren't invading immediately, it's more so of trying to make a connection from their world to our world. In reality we personally don't know how teleportation or interdimensional travel fully works. However in assumption, think of it as using a metal detector (a bad one at that) on the beach. Your thing starts beeping, meaning you found something. Now after taking that time of trying to find where to dig, you now have to dig endlessly until you find whatever object you were looking for.

So in this case, the combine were able to 'detect' Earth, however trying to make a connection from their world to ours would take some time. However because of this, their forces were gathering and at the ready. Another point to give is that it allows players to make backstories of seeing the world slowly collapse before the invasion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Breen explicitly mentioned in game-lore as only becoming a leader/even being considered once the Earth surrenders, and not beforehand?

It would be more logical that he would've climbed the chain to become head/leader of Earth, rather than him all of a sudden just being like, "Hey aliens, I'm the leader.".. because in that case, technically anyone would've made that claim. So in this scenario, Breen took the time to try and unify Earth during this crisis.

If you're going to have conscripts that aren't trans-humanized, which is already a controversial take, then it should be open fact. With the amount of active military personnel that serve globally, and through word of mouth, it would not be a secret that these people are dragged off for use by the Combine.

It was indicated during the time that the world's forces were weakened because of the Xenian wildlife and 'invasions' across the globe. Now say if that wasn't the issue and even say that the UU invaded within days...remember that Earth surrendered in 7 hours.. so it could be implied that a V A S T majority of the populace/military were decimated in the attack.

In regards to the conscripts, the reason why they aren't transhumanized off the bat was because it was still at its infancy. You aren't gonna slap some parts onto a person and call them Robocop and function properly... you'd have to engineer w/e you're doing to said person to where it becomes compatible.

If you attempt to take children from their parents, globally, on a coordinated scale, there would be global rioting. Everywhere. Without fail. It would be a stronger resistance than the one we see in Half-Life 2. This is a ridiculous lore point, and I'm not sure how it survived anyone's scrutiny.

There would definitely be much heartbreak, and people would be angry. However remember that again, Earth got ROCKED in 7 hours. You may protest, and sure some of their folks would put up a fight and die.. however not everyone is going to follow suite. Sometimes the human will to survive is stronger than what is in their heart. It's a sad thing really, as people do sometimes leave their children behind to survive in really bad situations.

Firstly, the Combine don't need some lame-ass bureaucracy of government to affirm their rule. They won a war. They run your life.

It's to establish a false sense of 'order'. They do run everything, however it's in a way that makes it look like as if the people have a form of control, which they most certainly DO NOT.
Also to connect towards the next bit, if we really wanted to play pick up the can and put it in the vending machine 24/7, and not have any working shops and be mechanical until Gordon Freeman shows up... well then there wouldn't really be much to roleplay on besides MAYBE Combine Vs Rebels. This just helps add more roleplay for everyone around.

Judith Mossman's collaboration with the Combine is treated more like an abnormality than a usual occurrence. I find it hard to believe that there's a secret 'Combine Black Mesa' pumping out research for the innovation of Combine tech when, again, they're an inter-dimensional space faring empire.

DeNuke makes a valid point in this category. This is new territory for them. If say we go off of the Black Mesa game, we had both studies in our homeworld, and the Xen borderworld. Some of which I'm sure the scientists were making sense of, however they still need to make a better understanding.

No shit.

Indeed!

No. [May 2010: Overwatch AI completed after Combine expedition into Aperture Science.]

This I personally agree. I mean sure yeah it's 'kinda neat' in a way but like...personally there would be NO WAY they'd be able to officially 'get in'...least in my eyes. I mean the outer areas would be noticed, however I'd assume it'd almost be like Black Mesa where all you see is an outer facility, but trying to get in is another step. I wouldn't be upset at all to see this changed or even removed entirely.

[Section 1 Done. ONTO SECTION 2]

Why wouldn't the Combine just...let them die? If they can't work, they probably can't feed themselves. Why put in the effort to kill them?

Eh.. I'd think of it more so as just tossing them into an incinerator and being done with it really. I think this is a way of filling in the gap of how everyone was physically okay ingame, however I'm sure that's just part of the engine and obviously could handle so much code and what not. Like how DeNuke said, it'd be up to Spine if whether or not this gets changed.

The Combine is a totalitarian empire at its core.

The Combine structure themselves as a Nationalist Republic however.

NO

On the same boat with you and DeNuke.

This phrasing is correct, but you somehow confuse it in the two previous lines. They describe themselves as a Universal Union. It's not a government you participate in. It is a ruling authority that runs your life.

I mean, basically really.

If they're enforcing this belief in Half-Life 2, they're doing a pretty shit job, given that everyone's just depressed and surviving day-to-day. It's more than likely just reserved for something that loyalists exert all of their energy on. Additionally, referring to them as "Our Benefactors" is more than likely just a rhetorical flourish, not a dogmatic title for them.

I never really thought of "Our Benefactors" as a 'God Like' Term... more so of like, 'Our Leaders' or w/e. But yeah.

These whole sections are frustrating from a lore perspective but necessary from a gameplay/player-retention aspect, so I'll make a separate thread on them. But they have their own issues we'll likely see in time.

Eh, I never really put much thought into it.. but I agree that it's needed for the gameplay/roleplay.

I've never been a fan of, or participated in, Vortigaunt RP. No comment.

Well I mean, we've seen Vorts cleaning and what not so, makes sense there would be a 'biotic workforce'.

I think you'll find, as we did at TERRANOVA, that having the Civil Protection be under a Ministry provides for much more interesting interactions between the branches of 'civilized' Combine society, as opposed to having a military arm crush down on it all.

DeNuke said it the best.

The double-think is in the name. I don't think it needs any more layers.

But...Civil Protection Units have layers in them...so...why not have more!?

 

[verTix]

Tact (Noun) -
adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues.

Your points are being drowned out by a need to be needlessly confrontational rather than providing constructive criticism. I suggest you refer to the above word.

 

[WillowBot]

Tact (Noun) -
adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues.

Your points are being drowned out by a need to be needlessly confrontational rather than providing constructive criticism. I suggest you refer to the above word.

Anyways:



Point one, three, and four work against one-another. Furthermore, point 1 and 4 restate the same exact concept. Now, this leaves point three - despite the information not being known it sets a clear precedent for the style of this server and theme. Putting more information out there actually leads to more player unity rather than everyone RPing there own flavor of HL2RP. Besides, the lore being "too long" seemingly should not matter if much of the lore would not be known IC. No-one is forcing you to understand anything but the basics (which is why specific things are highlighted as such). After-all, this is an encyclopedia for a reason - it's a comprehensive history of this rendition of HL2RP.

What are you expecting? 5 paragraphs for each faction explaining information everyone already understands?

I think your main complaint in your following points can be summed up by two things:

1.) You were not involved in the creative process.

2.) You are needlessly trying to bend things to your perceived standard.



In general, the affairs of the combine and their exact reasoning for doing X Y or Z is generally up in the air. There can be numerous reasons why they held back on an invasion. Maybe Earth was a lower priority and they were already invading 500 other places? Maybe it takes time for them to physically travel to Earth? You are making the bold assumption that "awareness" constitutes an immediate invasion. I do not see how this is a point of bother or contention.

Furthermore, the combines method of travel/invasion is spotty. At the end of HL2 EP2 the super-portal is the main method of calling reinforcements and it gets thwarted. I believe you are vastly overestimating the combine speed and ignoring the concrete precedent set in the game. It is reasonable to assume there method of travel is not like flying a plane to another country - otherwise they would have had reinforcements to thwart the uprising displayed in HL2 rather quickly.



Ever hear of globalism? Additionally, you are ignoring the statement made at the beginning of the lore that certain liberties are taken. I think this sets up the setting in a manner that makes Dr. Breen a target of interest and justifies his ascension.



I can agree that this lore-point is a bit confusing. I believe the end of yellow-coded information does state: "These points are usually easier to find however if the circumstances are right."

I believe what this lore-point is attempting to get across is that the combine does not openly speak about conscription for whatever reason. I think this needs to be expanded on a bit.



Oh, what happens eventually in Half-Life lore? I don't know... an uprising on a mass-scale? I think the removal of children from their parents on a mass-scale would be a major point of hatred almost everyone would harbor inside them. You go on to negate this point about "global rioting" when you state that the combine won the war so they can do whatever they want. I agree - they are so powerful initially that they can do whatever they want, set demands, and so on.

Including taking all of Earth's children and suppressing the population. After-all, it only took seven hours to cause the surrender of Earth's major military forces.



Correction: they might be an inter-dimensional space faring empire, but you must understand that their core-force leaves Earth behind as an occupied territory. The best thing to govern humans, is well, humans. They set-up the framework, rules, systems, and so on that humanity is to be governed by then left.

Furthermore, dispatch seems to be only concerned with civil-protection and overwatch. You also assume that the logistics group presented in this lore does not involve dispatch.

I think what is presented here is logical. It makes much more sense to still have frameworks that make up our human systems that we have been governed by for thousands of years rather than going like "super-ai runs everything." If there interdimensional empireness was really a primary reason why we would not have logistical systems, then why are humans still alive? Couldn't they just use their super-ai and technology to take resources from Earth without occupation?



Oh, so why did they need to capitalize on Earth's mistake to get to us if they have no more technology to develop?

It has been confirmed that the "interdimensional empire" you are harping on have never been able to penetrate Apeture Science because of one human made AI. This proves that humanity still has much to develop.

Why is an interdimensional super awesome empire arming their forces with human weapons? Why do they even need us? Why not use robots to control us?

You are vastly blowing the combine out of proportion to a level not thematically in-line with what is actually going on. Yes, they absolutely dominated Earth, but it was one weary and battered already.



Agreed.



Considering you want to call this retarded - then I will call your interpretation of this lore-bit retarted.

What was actually being said is the "Combine government on Earth is structured as a Nationalistic Republic." The ideas about transhumanism, ascension, and so on are purely conjecture and player-reasoning for combine motives. We only know that much of the combine technology is focused on the transhumanization of various entities.

Effectively, what this lore was actually saying is the government that humans are immediately concerned with, the civil administration and such, is structured in such a manner.



Refer to the start of the lore. You can disagree that this is not the best idea, but it was stated that liberties are taken for their own rendition of HL2.



Oh, so where did your idea of absolute dispatch control space faring empire that doesn't need human bureaucratic systems go?

I too think this is a good idea, but we need to give these guys room to write their own lore and systems. A merge might be happening, but no one is forcing you to stay here.

Equinox (and I assume others) put much effort into writing this. You can poke holes in just about anything if you want to. Like how I poked holes in your arguments. Respect his effort and formulate your ideas in a more constructive manner.

Haven't you gotten banned from most HL2RP servers for being a bit of a cunt?

 

[WillowBot]

Tact (Noun) -
adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues.

Your points are being drowned out by a need to be needlessly confrontational rather than providing constructive criticism. I suggest you refer to the above word.

 

[Deleted user]

Haven't you gotten banned from most HL2RP servers for being a bit of a cunt?

How is that relevant? Keep the discussion going

 

[bill]

Point one, three, and four work against one-another. Furthermore, point 1 and 4 restate the same exact concept. Now, this leaves point three - despite the information not being known it sets a clear precedent for the style of this server and theme. Putting more information out there actually leads to more player unity rather than everyone RPing there own flavor of HL2RP. Besides, the lore being "too long" seemingly should not matter if much of the lore would not be known IC. No-one is forcing you to understand anything but the basics (which is why specific things are highlighted as such). After-all, this is an encyclopedia for a reason - it's a comprehensive history of this rendition of HL2RP.

No. You write lore with expectation that it can be used for decision making and writing. If it takes me an hour to read it, start to finish, it's too much. It's not useful for writing, it's having to crack open a novel for every detail. The best fiction is drip-fed lore and context through storytelling -- i.e., A Song Of Ice and Fire. GRRM did not write an entire Encylopedia to release before his entire series, you learned the world through the first few books and then learned more in detail.

1.) You were not involved in the creative process.

2.) You are needlessly trying to bend things to your perceived standard.

Those are the premises of any critique. If that's a problem, you clearly can't accept criticism. A trait you displayed on TN.

What are you expecting? 5 paragraphs for each faction explaining information everyone already understands?

No. I'm expecting there to be information about Willard's individual systems that differentiate. I don't need a million pages of secret sections of secret sections of Union administration that people do or don't know about.

In general, the affairs of the combine and their exact reasoning for doing X Y or Z is generally up in the air. There can be numerous reasons why they held back on an invasion. Maybe Earth was a lower priority and they were already invading 500 other places? Maybe it takes time for them to physically travel to Earth? You are making the bold assumption that "awareness" constitutes an immediate invasion. I do not see how this is a point of bother or contention.

Furthermore, the combines method of travel/invasion is spotty. At the end of HL2 EP2 the super-portal is the main method of calling reinforcements and it gets thwarted. I believe you are vastly overestimating the combine speed and ignoring the concrete precedent set in the game. It is reasonable to assume there method of travel is not like flying a plane to another country - otherwise they would have had reinforcements to thwart the uprising displayed in HL2 rather quickly.

The specific point made in the games is short-distance, same dimensional teleportation. Emphasizing the fact that Breen was threatening to send two random people to an entirely different dimension on a random whim as a threat. You're wrong.

Oh, what happens eventually in Half-Life lore? I don't know... an uprising on a mass-scale? I think the removal of children from their parents on a mass-scale would be a major point of hatred almost everyone would harbor inside them. You go on to negate this point about "global rioting" when you state that the combine won the war so they can do whatever they want. I agree - they are so powerful initially that they can do whatever they want, set demands, and so on.

The point being that the Union wouldn't jeopradize family cohesion, oft emphasized, for...what? To tell them that the Union gives them food by shipping them off to fucking Ireland? Again, you've misread me.

Furthermore, dispatch seems to be only concerned with civil-protection and overwatch. You also assume that the logistics group presented in this lore does not involve dispatch.

Evidently Dispatch is also concerned with the infrastructure surrounding Nova Prospekt, and the minutia of the processing of prisoners on the inside. It would not be a stretch to assume it, at a minimum, manages and automates the transport of resources.

What was actually being said is the "Combine government on Earth is structured as a Nationalistic Republic." The ideas about transhumanism, ascension, and so on are purely conjecture and player-reasoning for combine motives. We only know that much of the combine technology is focused on the transhumanization of various entities.

Effectively, what this lore was actually saying is the government that humans are immediately concerned with, the civil administration and such, is structured in such a manner.

It's not a Nationalistic Republic. It's just an endless bureaucracy, if anything, which is what this document seems to imply. There's no 'nationalism' because that would imply some sort of rival to the Combine. There is none. This is what Paradox games do to your brain.

Refer to the start of the lore. You can disagree that this is not the best idea, but it was stated that liberties are taken for their own rendition of HL2.

Refer to DeNuke's response. It's literally an emphasis on a rhetorical flourish that HL2RP brained schizos took too far. It's bad writing.

Oh, so where did your idea of absolute dispatch control space faring empire that doesn't need human bureaucratic systems go?

Nice job deflecting. My point was about inter-city, inter-sector transport. Things that would be above the level of Civil / Sector Administration.

Congratulations on not reading my post.

 

[bill]

How is that relevant? Keep the discussion going

KoC lacks tact; it's rich coming from him. His attitude exists to lash out at people who he perceives as having 'wronged' him, of which I am one. I don't take his criticism seriously, but I'll entertain at a minimum to respond to the larger point.

https://forum.terranova-rp.com/index.php?threads/hl2rp-and-the-demonizing-of-the-female-body.667/

 

[Deleted user]

KoC lacks tact; it's rich coming from him. His attitude exists to lash out at people who he perceives as having 'wronged' him, of which I am one. I don't take his criticism seriously, but I'll entertain at a minimum to respond to the larger point.

https://forum.terranova-rp.com/index.php?threads/hl2rp-and-the-demonizing-of-the-female-body.667/

Oh great, so personal fued. Welp. Try your best, all of you, to just not come too strong on eachother.

 

[WillowBot]

KoC lacks tact; it's rich coming from him. His attitude exists to lash out at people who he perceives as having 'wronged' him, of which I am one. I don't take his criticism seriously, but I'll entertain at a minimum to respond to the larger point.

https://forum.terranova-rp.com/index.php?threads/hl2rp-and-the-demonizing-of-the-female-body.667/

Amen

 

[WillowBot]

Oh great, so personal fued. Welp. Try your best, all of you, to just not come too strong on eachother.

This isn't personally, he's banned from most servers for a reason, Spine.

 

[TheDeNuke]

Anyway.

Carry on with the discussion then and don't turn this thread into a "attack KoC" thread. We are here to discuss the elements of the lore as presented by @bill and thus we shall do so.

 

[registry: brush him]

THIS
TIMELINE
IS
A
FUCKING
MESS

PLEASE stop ignoring it.

 

[Deleted user]

THIS
TIMELINE
IS
A
FUCKING
MESS

PLEASE stop ignoring it.

Ty brush, very constructive

 

[WillowBot]

Ty brush, very constructive

It was, tbh. Sometimes the most simple response is the most needed.