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Implemented TBC changes / development updates and suggestions

captain hoovie

captain hoovie

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2022
Messages
26
to continue the discussion from previous threads, Turn Based Combat currently appears to be rather incomplete and buggy. the main reason why a lot of people want to see it gone outright is because it appears that the developer behind it has ceased all support and there is no chance of seeing it further improved.

however, it turns out to not be the case. I reached out to (not tagging him) Gr4SS, the original developer behind the system, and he said he's willing to make changes and updates to the system if people provide him with a specific list of requested features and changes. only requirement is not to have the proposed changes be complex enough to cause a total re-write of the addon, as there are currently no resources to allocate for that.

after discussing this with Overwatch leads, i was instructed to create this thread to allow community members to pitch in their ideas so that we may further complete the list and reach a consensus among the community at large.

please note to not bother the developer personally, as the finalized list will be sent to him after enough info has been gathered from this thread.

as of right now, the proposed list of changes includes:
  1. - remove collission between players during tbc to prevent stuckage, also no-collide doors because those are buggy as fuck
  2. - forbid climbing up ladders unless during a turn
  3. - forbid using /act during TBC, regardless of if active turn or not
  4. - negate / remove speed stats applying during TBC
  5. - add extra voting functionality, and not just 'switch to s2k or end battle'. possibly add a "players stuck" vote where if enough players vote, 30 seconds of free movement is given to everyone to reposition
  6. - add critical miss chances, make damage RNG more varied. alternatively implement something akin to a cover / blind fire system, but this could potentially cause a lot of dev hurdles so idk
  7. - remove the random initiative boosts, only keep those relevant to character status i.e. health etc
  8. - add extra admin functionality for battle control. allow admins to remove players from a battle at will, as well as to lock combat encounters to prevent more players from joining in (and have those players locked out of joining get a flashing warning on a screen saying that a TIMESCALED battle is in progress) at the players' request
please feel free to discuss these, but do focus on providing anything we've missed.
we'll keep you updated

thank you
 
I believe the player collision boxes are on the thicker side, but I'm not sure if it should be disabled entirely within turn-based combat. Another server that used to exist deigned to make player hitboxes relatively small, instead, allowing people not only to get up close to one-another, but also build relatively small-scale apartments or storefronts without getting stuck in them because of the invisible collision aura around them.

In an environment like Turn-Based Combat, you could still block doorways (a valid strategy, if you ask me) while avoiding the problem of getting stuck on someone else's psyker field.

I think acts can be good ways to flavor your roleplay, even in turn-based combat. I'm not sure if they're abused as it stands now, so I can't speak for that, but skipping a turn by dropping to the floor with a serious injury (by using a related action) seems like an interesting thing to do. I won't campaign for that to stay not only because you could also just crouch, but also because I don't know whether it's prone to being abused by people seeking an advantage.

I have no comments on the other points outlined in this post as I've not experienced the system firsthand as a combatant, but many of them seem like reasonable changes. I've seen players be able to use ladders whilst out of a turn, which can lead to confusion and dirty exploiting.
 
numbers23541 said:
all is good, but if u remove speed stats applying to tbc, what good is the skill?
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This is the one concern I have, but I think the solution here is make it affect how far you can move and how many points it'll cost to actually move around.
captain hoovie said:
add critical miss chances, make damage RNG more varied. alternatively implement something akin to a cover / blind fire system, but this could potentially cause a lot of dev hurdles so idk
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This is the most important change needed for the system, above all. TBC boils down to whoever has the most guys, not who has the advantageous position or the ability to use a gun. Random miss chances + a disadvantage to being out in the open is absolutely critical into breaking the meta of simply outnumbering and rushing at your enemy.
 
slick said:
This is the one concern I have, but I think the solution here is make it affect how far you can move and how many points it'll cost to actually move around.
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I think this is a solid way to approach the speed stat. A cognate to this, I think, is Divinity: Original Sin 2's Movement attribute, which dictates entirely how far you can move per action point. Perhaps in this case, it should dictate how far you can move in a single combat turn.

Maybe, to avoid people running and gunning, sprinting could be disabled in combat and replaced entirely with a slower 'running' speed that is the default instead? That way everyone is on an even playing field, and stats like speed have a purpose that seems more balanced.
 


I'd agree with the skill portion but then when it comes down to it there has to be a measure of why TBC is in place. It's based right now on the character's skills, with things like speed and guns, affecting each action a player chooses to do with their time and action points in a turn. Blindly tossing away the skill's effect in TBC wouldn't be the best idea.

You can use cover in TBC, I remember testing it before the V2 launch (Video just being shits and giggles from that) just needing to stop your move, hitting F3 or allowing the time to run out while you're there. The other characters can use their AP to move or shoot. No clue if it's the same way, currently that's just how I remember it.
 
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I suggest preventing people from looking around unless it's their turn and no radioing/talking unless it's your turn.
Two reasons.

1) It makes ambushes more viable
2) it prevents people from cheesing their enemies by making their hitbox spaz around.

Last night on the TBC test on the dev server I learned that you can quickly move your mouse about to make it so your playermodel spazzes out and your enemy hits your arms instead of chest which deals half damage I think.

Also, critical miss chance is frankly stupid in my opinion. How would it even work? You shoot someone and you're met with a chatlog saying "You missed.", low gun skill already makes your critical hit chance low unless you have the proper skill level, adding miss chance would just be the final nail in the coffin of making TBC worse.
Player stuck vote sounds okay at first but I think people would abuse to get to a better position.
 
personally, i think it should also be made so that reloads take up a whole turn worth of AP, so that players have to take mag capacity into account
 
captain hoovie said:
personally, i think it should also be made so that reloads take up a whole turn worth of AP, so that players have to take mag capacity into account
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by the time you reload your gun you will have basically no time to shoot or traverse a significant distance
 
captain hoovie said:
  1. - remove collission between players during tbc to prevent stuckage, also no-collide doors because those are buggy as fuck
  2. - negate / remove speed stats applying during TBC
Click to expand...
Removing collision isn't a good idea. If you mean stuckage by another player getting in the way of others, then that's an IC issue as spacing and position should be important to consider when in combat.

Removing speed stats is going to make the stat useless, so I'd rather not see that.

Other points I think I can agree with
 
Imo TBC would be vastily improved with a RNG hit chance system in general, influenced by things like gun skill, weapons, enemy cover Etc. Could even have speed influence a sort of dodge chance (Though this would have to be very small) May give it something spicy aside from just stealing turns at random.
It would make firefights more like firefights, and prevent people from being able to peg someones toe from 50 yards away with near assured success. While also allowing you to modify guns beyond just 'does more damage.' The Time to Kill is incredibly low in TBC, and some guns like snipers literally one shot people (afaik) just because the stats of others are so overtuned thats the only option you have to take. This would give more options.

Also gives those caught out of cover a snowballs chance, at least. Since currently, you likely are dead if even one turn is spent within someones direct line of sight - depending on the weapon of course.

In general, however initiative is handled, it needs to be less inconsistent, less aggressive and more predictable. From my experience in TBC, turns swapped incredibly fast at times for no reason (it seemed) If there was any way to inform players of who may be going next, that would be seriously beneficial too. Would allow you to know if breaching a room is going to end in backup, or a hail of bullets.


How possible is anything I just mentioned? No idea. But, they are ideas all the same.
 
ayo said:
Pretty sure they work its just the time it takes for them to charge and release a stream. I doubt they just don't work in TBC.
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Every vort player complains about S2K, it's because mechnically they are not viable on S2K at the moment.
 
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