The current deplorable state of vortigaunt roleplay

[alessiodoomboy]

Otherwise, the clamour for reform is what's otherwise received from the majority. Whole system needs a refresh, let alone Vortigaunts which haven't gotten much love since... forever?

This, basically. City RP sucks - which means that rebel RP sucks because they can't interact with the city (and by proxy, the Combine) in interesting ways, so they just grind independantly and don't do anything. Vortigaunt RP sucks because they're forced to City RP, which sucks. Etc, Etc, for most factions. You can try and fix rebel economy, vortigaunt RP, or whatever else as much as you like but it's not gonna solve the fact that the city is just not a fun place to be.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

Feel like my shitpost warrants an actual opinion now. I feel like there's a clear indicator that the overall faction seems a rather directionless judging by the periodic shift in faction leadership every few moons. The consensus of the community in regards to Vortigaunt changes like butter is that any warranted change is likely temperamental to the faction and subject to change at the discretion of the next lead, especially in regards to Biotics.

We can all sympathize with Vortigaunt factions, as the monotonous repetitiveness of city-rp is not something wholly unique to the Vortigaunt faction alone; and is a feature shared between it and citizen roleplay. I don't believe Vortigaunts being disproportionally oppressed in comparison to Citizens is necessarily a bad thing, as Vortigaunts should feel indignant about their treatment as that is what is expected of them to cater to break free; but it does exasperate the feeling that Vortigaunt city roleplay is unfun, monotonous, and tiring; in the physical and mental aspects.

The lack of communication between the faction leads and faction members is definitely a contentious point that needs to be addressed in future, but I can partially understand if this were a decision brought on in part by the Overwatch faction pressuring the Vortigaunt leads, as that'd explain why the Mandate felt so rushed without allowing opinions from faction members; but that excuse is only if this a cooperative decision contrived by numerous parties that hampered communicative efforts with its faction base.

A lot of these issues, like the excessive grinding, are issues which affect all city-based factions equally, so I don't particularly feel like they need addressing except on a broader basis in general, that goes beyond just the Vortigaunt faction. This is something that could be done through a Community Meeting, but it'll be tough finding effective change for issues that goes beyond just the Vortigaunt faction.

tl;dr: it sucks, but keep in mind that some of these issues go beyond just the Vortigaunt faction. They're felt and experienced on a broader base and are more problematic of how City-RP & loyalism is structured in general.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

This, basically. City RP sucks - which means that rebel RP sucks because they can't interact with the city (and by proxy, the Combine) in interesting ways, so they just grind independantly and don't do anything. Vortigaunt RP sucks because they're forced to City RP, which sucks. Etc, Etc, for most factions. You can try and fix rebel economy, vortigaunt RP, or whatever else as much as you like but it's not gonna solve the fact that the city is just not a fun place to be.

my point exactly.

it's not just vortigaunt roleplay that sucks (they suck regardless, a bunch of stinking aliens), but instead, it's more emblematic of how faulty city rp is right now. I just see this thread as being the continuation of a long line of, "loyalism/grinding sucks" with some added points in regards to faction mismanagement and 1984 disproportional suffering buzzwords galore.

truthfully, I do not think Biotic roleplay should not be as free as citizen rp. It's hard devising of a system where you can simultaneously find joy in playing biotic, while still keeping faithful to the tonal oppression the faction should receive (on account of them being 2nd class ugly aliens).

Even after all my years of playing HL2rp, it remains to be seen whether or not enjoyment and oppression are mutually exclusive or compatible.

 

[Deleted member 4096]

The monotony of CityRP is derived from its lean towards gameplay systems, subsequently reinforced by the rather punitive ground rules concerning punishment.

If every faction had the ability to commit to something without possibility of total loss, people would be more willing to engage and interact with one another on an antagonistic level. People will adapt to whatever boundaries you set for them. In Willard's case this breeds a level of non-interaction.

I think it says something when a lot of Civil Protection understand how affected the Vortigaunts are by biotic reform and refuse to enforce a portion of it, recognizing for how much of an issue it is. At its heart: Willard's problems aren't the playerbase it hosts, but rather the problems that plague them which seem to be systematic.

EDIT: Which, to clarify, isn't a reproach towards the administrators, faction leads, or anyone that could be considered 'complicit' in it. To derive malevolence from people's wish for a better server is both diabolical and asinine; pointless along with undeserved. It's primarily about the systems and policies implemented which have resulted in a more negative impact than intended.

 

[Rabid]

You can try and fix rebel economy, vortigaunt RP, or whatever else as much as you like but it's not gonna solve the fact that the city is just not a fun place to be.

The monotony of CityRP is derived from its lean towards gameplay systems, subsequently reinforced by the rather punitive ground rules concerning punishment.

Some of my best times in HL2RP have come from Biotic characters in the city because I was given the freedom to be a slave without being literally forced into a "YOU WILL DO WORKRP CONSTANTLY" box. I've stolen shit for rebels, I've killed loyalists, I've done all sorts of insane shit because the option was there for me at those times.

CityRP can be made interesting. The problem is that it isn't being allowed to be interesting. When the "city" is two streets and the Biotic faction got forced into a dumb reform everyone ignores? Yeah, no wonder its not very fun.

As for punishment; I'll be honest and say that its a difficult as fuck line to walk. It really is. If you barely have any consequence people get equally as tired of that.

 

[Deleted member 4096]

Some of my best times in HL2RP have come from Biotic characters in the city because I was given the freedom to be a slave without being literally forced into a "YOU WILL DO WORKRP CONSTANTLY" box. I've stolen shit for rebels, I've killed loyalists, I've done all sorts of insane shit because the option was there for me at those times.

CityRP can be made interesting. The problem is that it isn't being allowed to be interesting. When the "city" is two streets and the Biotic faction got forced into a dumb reform everyone ignores? Yeah, no wonder its not very fun.

As for punishment; I'll be honest and say that its a difficult as fuck line to walk. It really is. If you barely have any consequence people get equally as tired of that.

I am not advocating the abolishment of consequence. I'm instead saying that all consequences should be utilized to drive forth a narrative, both personal and communal. Expanded: I think it would be better for there to be a gradual escalation to which an individual or group ends up dead due to their own actions instead of how easily it is to default to such nowadays. Or, in the Vortigaunt's case: 'Nullification' which I personally view as a dead-end to a lot of character development, especially with how extremely hard it is to get it reverted.

To everyone: Apologies. I've been accidentally derailing this forum with my own views on things. Some which I never shut up on (ask KG and/or Nyx). I'll refrain from continuing further unless prompted.

 

[Donavin Jones]

Now, I'm a new vortigaunt player so I cant really put my two say other then the Biotic system.
It is a slog, but I found a way to cheat around it and get easy sc, find out ic.

 

[Craw]

DeNuke is about to have a stroke waking up and having to read all through this

 

[HOKI]

I saw a really tiny vortigaunt called robert so the title is true

 

[Pandafish]

[[FILED NAILS] A small Vortigaunt stan...] says "Fuck yeah good one black human, didn't hear you name sorry if that's racist we dont understand that part of humans yet."

[[FILED NAILS] A small Vortigaunt stan...] says "Well... If we had to choose to be called a slang for cock or brown... We'd honestly choose brown man no offense."

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

[[FILED NAILS] A small Vortigaunt stan...] says "Fuck yeah good one black human, didn't hear you name sorry if that's racist we dont understand that part of humans yet."

[[FILED NAILS] A small Vortigaunt stan...] says "Well... If we had to choose to be called a slang for cock or brown... We'd honestly choose brown man no offense."

whatever those three stooges got dewhitelisted for cannot possibly be as bad as this

 

[ShadoWiz4rd]

Vort Uprising when

 

[Ruairidh]

Vortigaunts are three armed, "4th"-dimensional beings, they break the laws of thermodynamics (to human knowledge) or they have ungodly energy conversion rates, they piled into our universe and killed people. Chars who like vortigaunts for literally no reason other than "I not racist" are retarded. this isnt to mention anything in this thread, its just so people will see it and change their ways (hopefully).

 

[TheDeNuke]

whatever those three stooges got dewhitelisted for cannot possibly be as bad as this

They were dewhitelisted for doing major bannable actions (which had stuck and had been maintained after appeal) on the Vortigaunt Whitelist according to what RogueSynapse wanted prior to him departing as lead. I was reluctant to dewhitelist them, but the truth is that we cannot just allow people to break several major server rules on whitelisted characters and get away with it.

I'll respond to the main post in a bit.

 

[TheDeNuke]

I've had some discussion with players, and I feel as though I need to let some things off my chest about certain grievances I've had about vortigaunt (biotic) roleplay.

First off, the current social credits ration credit thresholds. This change has made biotic roleplay an abhorrent slog. What it feels to me is that apparently, it was decided that the grind was not enough, and it was bogged down even more. I get that there should be consequences for getting on the combine's shitlist, but the current mandate makes the grind to get something like employment or the ability to even wear clothes harder than it needs to be. Now, with the credits being nuked, you get 10 credits per 3 or so hours, and your credits are capped at 80. This wouldn't be so bad if this was done with consideration to the current state of the stores, and the CWU. I've noticed that at some days, barely any workshifts happen at all, and your reward for each is one point. This essentially forces you to choose - do you go and seek roleplay but potentially miss out on workshifts? Or do you stand near the warehouse like a jackass and forgo any and all potential RP to be had for the sake of the grind? (I have experience with this, while trying to get my vortigaunt to 60 cohesion points. Let me tell you, I was lucky I even had a job, this grind wouldn't have even mattered if I didn't have it.)

Second, the de-whitelisting of @BurgerWithOnion, and others of the tribe had essentially killed it. Only me, Chaa'Tii and It'Er are the remaining active tribe members, along with one other I don't particularly remember of. I think that this completely rushed and inconsiderate decision had pretty much killed one of the only remaining in-server groups of vortigaunts for them to pursue goals or quests amongst themselves, now relying on the ever-so-unreliable assistance of rebels whom, the recent generation of at least, appears to all exist with sticks permanently lodged in their asses. This isn't an appeal thread, so I'm not going to ask for their whitelists to be returned, but I just want to make it very apparent that what was done was a completely rushed and ignorant decision that essentially had killed a lot of what already been there.

Thirdly, and I don't want to sound insulting to the people who organize the faction, but I feel like it's screaming at a wall sometimes. We get no option to provide feedback on the changes made, like the mandate change which drastically changed the grind, but literally affected fuck-all about how biotics are treated. The mandate was implemented without a chance for us to voice our thoughts about it and was essentially forced on us. Most CPs gave a shit for the first week or two, now, I've talked to one of my fellow vort players of inadequate cohesion points with plenty of CPs in view, and they didn't once give a shit. I've talked to some fellow vort players about why they didn't care, and it's obvious. Below the very first tier, you are literally not permitted to leave the housing unless you go to get work, and you're supposed to work, work and work. Nobody enforces it. Why? Because it's, to be blunt, ABSOLUTE FUCKING HORSESHIT. Preventing RP in the RP server for the sake of some pathetic sense of oppression is NOT a good compromise. It never was. THAT'S why CPs don't care about harassing low-tiered vortigaunts about their tier anymore. Either they forgot, because the mandate change was that meaningless, or because they feel bad for how shit the environment to RP for us is. We don't even get a chance to play much amongst ourselves because the tribe was essentially killed, and three vortigaunt players got de-whitelisted on the same day.

All in all, the state is quite honestly abhorent. And I wish for what changes could be made to be discussed in this thread, because these changes are NEEDED. Vortigaunt players have NO INCENTIVE to play on their vortigaunts anymore because the city experience, which the staff are consistently pushing people to play in, is gimped to the highest degree for us. It's not fun. At all.

EDIT : Don't get me wrong, I'm not speaking from the perspective of 'waaah, grind hard, I want easy thing', no. I've played through the grind. I didn't say so much as a word about it and I worked hard to get it. A month. A month of time to get to this point. Interspersed with roleplay, which I had to do in sacrifice to lack of progression within the city, which is the environment we are all funneled to one way or another.

Firstly, I did these changes due to a continued and large protest from the combine side of our playerbase who felt that the Vortigaunts as they had previously stood were too easy and given far too many rights. If I had continued down that path as it had stood previously I would have eventually taken major flak from the Combine Side of this Community. Yeah, I gave into their demands basically. I can do adjustments but I basically have to be careful to avoid repeating the continued bitching about Vortigaunts being effectively treated as Citizen 2.0

Secondly, these individuals had broken major server rules (overt LTARP with full acknowledgement of what was going on) while on their Vortigaunt Characters (which was appealed and upheld mind you) which had resulted in a month long ban. This was one of the last things that RogueSynapse did before standing down as Vortigaunt Lead and I unfortunately somewhat agree with the fact that they had astronomically f**ked up. If they want to join the faction again then they will have to reapply.

Thirdly, I apologize that I did not permit you to give feedback on these changes, but these changes were done urgently with the understanding that if they were not done then things would have likely been far worse for this faction had the continued grievances with this faction continued.

The truth is: I do not work for you. I work for the entire community, and if the characteristics of this faction do not presently appease you then understand that I do not change things exclusively for the benefit of this faction. I change things based on critique from the entire community.

If in future I do a further rework (if not immediately after this thread) then I will open that thread for feedback. However, I will not be one to allow this faction to become yet another avenue for polarization at this community and will open that thread for critique from combine elements of this community as well as the Vortigaunt Faction.

On a a more personal note I prefer a Biotic Faction with less oppression and far less grind, but currently that is nearly impossible with our current stock of combine players which do not prefer this faction to be a easy ride in any regard.

Also as @Imperator RAD-X loves to state: City RP sucks currently and the reason why I've had to cripple my own faction is because the current direction of City RP makes it impossible to act at its most optimum without annoying too many individuals.

 

[Kaffee]

ease oppression, have combine mains complain at you.

raise oppression, have vortigaunt mains complain at you.

 

[M3ntal]

ease oppression, have combine mains complain at you.

raise oppression, have vortigaunt mains complain at you.

Personally I dont mind the oppression, but the way these mechanics were built in the first place are what I don't like.

I've seen a rise in players openly disliking vortigaunts with their characters and that's what I like to see.

Ultimately this means the change has to originate from the players and not the staff, but the issues I've brought up just underline the main factors to what contributes to the annoyance to play.

However, as mentioned in this thread the entire issue can be boiled down to city rp sucking actual ass. And we've discussed in prior meetings what we can do to fix it. Honestly, I'll just be happy if the issues are made as a point of discussion again.

I would like to maybe discuss how the made changes could perhaps be improved rather than reversed. For example the social credits threshold for getting normal credit amounts and having credit limits, because it just retroactively screws with vorts. The mandate could stay but there is no need to make the grind even grindier.

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

They were dewhitelisted for doing major bannable actions (which had stuck and had been maintained after appeal) on the Vortigaunt Whitelist according to what RogueSynapse wanted prior to him departing as lead. I was reluctant to dewhitelist them, but the truth is that we cannot just allow people to break several major server rules on whitelisted characters and get away with it.

I'll respond to the main post in a bit.

it was just some hyperbole to convey my disgust at the style of vort speech being permitted in the logs. while the vagueness on their ban reasons isnt convincing, im not doubting that something went wrong at the core (hence my referral to them as 'stooges')

still, it falls into the pile of examples from this community where people were removed from their positions too hastily without consideration to what it will do to the IC environment

Firstly, I did these changes due to a continued and large protest from the combine side of our playerbase who felt that the Vortigaunts as they had previously stood were too easy and given far too many rights. If I had continued down that path as it had stood previously I would have eventually taken major flak from the Combine Side of this Community. Yeah, I gave into their demands basically. I can do adjustments but I basically have to be careful to avoid repeating the continued bitching about Vortigaunts being effectively treated as Citizen 2.0

On a a more personal note I prefer a Biotic Faction with less oppression and far less grind, but currently that is nearly impossible with our current stock of combine players which do not prefer this faction to be a easy ride in any regard.[/ISPOILER]


Also as @Imperator RAD-X loves to state: City RP sucks currently and the reason why I've had to cripple my own faction is because the current direction of City RP makes it impossible to act at its most optimum without annoying too many individuals

The truth is: I do not work for you. I work for the entire community, and if the characteristics of this faction do not presently appease you then understand that I do not change things exclusively for the benefit of this faction. I change things based on critique from the entire community.

"i change things based on feedback from the entire community"


"i caved into the demands of one portion of the playerbase"

these two things are mutually exclusive chief. you haven't listened to the playerbase as a whole, you just gave in because the 'combine' players demanded you make things more 'oppressive'.

maybe its time their opinions were taken with a grain of salt. most people who play on the combine side and demand more 'oppression' do not play enough citizen characters to understand how mind numbingly infuriating it can be to actually be the person on the receiving end of the stick when this oppression of yours is taken too far and lacks an inherent empathy for the player who's roleplaying their own character's persecution.

the truth is that half the time, a CP player calling for more """oppression""" does so out of selfish reasons. they fetishize their own ability to create a dreary atmosphere, and want their ability to do so expanded, all the while losing perspective for how it's going to affect the players they interact with.

but even so, what do you make of the fact that the changes you made are no longer being enforced by CPs? clearly the consensus from the combine side isn't as simple as you nor i make it out to be; despite the idea that they're all complaining for things to be harsher, it turns out that a great many CP players understand when it's gone ridiculously far. maybe there was a consensus on the combine side about these reforms being the right direction at the time you implemented them, but it's clear now that this is no longer the case from combine players, let alone the playerbase as a whole. you were asked for changes, you made the changes, the changes turned out to suck. now it's time to move on.

The truth is: I do not work for you. I work for the entire community, and if the characteristics of this faction do not presently appease you then understand that I do not change things exclusively for the benefit of this faction. I change things based on critique from the entire community.

also this "i wont change things for your personal tastes!!" clapback doesnt work here when this thread's gotten a lot of backing from players both in and out of the faction

ease oppression, have combine mains complain at you.

raise oppression, have vortigaunt mains complain at you.

overgeneralize your playerbase, get cynical and stop listening whenever you feel like it

grow up, dude. if you can't handle the responsibility, don't take on it

 

[Rabid]

If you (meaning WN) listened to what the average Combine/Citizen player wants regarding oppression you'd literally kill the server within a month.

As is evidenced by the sharp drop in people actually playing their Vortigaunt at all, handicapping your own faction for the sake of people who's only interaction is to make people do WorkRP (and who don't even do THAT half of the time anymore lol) is an incredibly poor move to make as a faction lead.

You are faction lead and staff. If your changes are actively killing your faction - and they are - for the sake of a portion of the playerbase who doesn't care enough to uphold the changes they apparently asked for, then revert them. Nobody is twisting your arm behind your back.

 

[Maroon]

On a a more personal note I prefer a Biotic Faction with less oppression and far less grind, but currently that is nearly impossible with our current stock of combine players which do not prefer this faction to be a easy ride in any regard.

I don't know where this came from, not from cop leads' end, I don't think. I've always said the thing to focus on for Biotics especially is to make a more fun-oriented faction considering they always get the lower end of the stick in HL2RP.