Sagsworth
Radio Bob Approved
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2020
- Messages
- 275
- Thread Author
- #1
Relevant players and characters (there may be more)
1.0 Muho's metagaming (and it's lack of a resolution)
To be clear, the reason I have gone into so much detail for this section is two fold:
First, we are still yet to receive conclusive information in terms of what knowledge is metagamed or not relating to the BCI ‘investigations’, and people claiming with no evidence to have knowledge of the vent. While there are other things this complaint focuses on, this is a part I especially want resolved. If when the BCI fell apart, or at any other time staff had weighed in, listened to both sides and decided whether vent knowledge was IC or not, this could have all been avoided. So even if we resolve the situation regarding the PK, it is essential that this metagame situation is finally put to bed so we can finally continue with what should be happening IC.
1.1 - Setting the Scene
Since day one on the server, we have been having problems with people trying to metagame the secret vent in the Sunrise. A number of staff members have offered support for situations where it's happened, but there were still issues all the same. People would look at the map on single-player, come to the store in-game when the slums were inaccessible, and beg us to let them through the vent. We told them they did not have knowledge of the vent every time, but it happened enough that people would talk about it. We would always put up a /scenetext mentioning that the vent was blocked by a cabinet, but people realizing that they'd have to get knowledge of the vent IC'ly would ignore this. As soon as the vent was visible, they'd scream "WHAT'S IN THAT VENT?" and demand to get IC knowledge from it. This is obviously motivated by OOC knowledge of the vent, as characters are not this insistent about vents or parts of the map that are not actually accessible or secret. But again, it happened enough times and enough people took it ICly that it became a problem for us. Eventually and thankfully @hawke moved our cabinet to block the vent and no-collided it, and since then this issue has been reduced massively - but the metagame continues to have consequences. To be clear, I have a list of people who ICly know about the vent, it is very short, and as far as I'm aware no one has been caught using it, and therefore knows about its existence.
Muho was one of these people. I have stated very cleared to him that if he has a single ounce of evidence that his knowledge of the vent is real, then all is fine. But he doesn’t have anything, as I’ll mention in 1.3.
1.2 - The BCI Problem
My knowledge of the BCI is limited as I am not a member, and my understanding is that information about the faction is kept very ICly and OOCly hidden. However, from what I have gathered its first iteration was a mess, with a lack of senior management, agents failing to follow rules, and metagame accusations running rampant. Fortunately, this has been cleaned up in terms of actual faction members, but in terms of their associates, there are lingering consequences. Muho was an informant for Dark, which I will get into later. As an informant, he was not an official member, and therefore escaped the purge and upcoming changes to the faction. As a result, despite the faction that conducted many investigations against us being removed due to the obvious rule breaks made by various faction members, lack of management, and metagame, the knowledge that was supposedly gained from this lives on through these ex-BCI members.
I don't know the details, but it is clear to me at this time that the BCI were interested in the Sunrise due to these various reports of vents, and that Muho had been sent to spy on his. His public but quiet meetings with prominent and public-facing BCI members, constantly coming and asking questions. And then at one point he tried to catch one of our staff in a honeytrap. Protec's character Maxine Lee was confronted by Muho who (while being a BCI informant), told her that he wanted her to be involved in rebel activities and "knew that sunrise was run by rebels". This put Maxine in a catch-22, where on one hand if she does nothing, she has committed inaction and can be killed by the BCI. On the other hand, if she reports Muho then he can use this as an excuse to kill her. She decided to report this to a senior BCI agent, which resulted in Muho's firing. Muho has IC'ly spoken about this, and therefore this knowledge is pretty clearly known ICly which will be important later for explaining the reasons that our interest in PKing Muho is valid.
1.3 - The Confrontation (OOC)
Eventually, I got tired of this situation and decided to DM Muho directly, as not only did he claim to have knowledge he was spreading this metagame’d information to other people. Unfortunately, I do not have screenshots of this conversation, although I hope that Muho would not claim that I am lying about them. If he does, they can be fished up in logs as they were on the server. I told him to stop metagaming knowledge of the vent, and told him that he did not have it IC’ly. When asking for any evidence of how he got this knowledge, he claimed that:
I specifically mentioned talking to Rad-X and did this, I asked him to speak to the people involved and ask them to stop metagaming this information. I haven’t heard back from him to hear confirmation that this has happened or how it went.
Please note that I did not try and feed him false information, present a false narrative and expect him to simply back me up without speaking to the other party. Rather, I hoped that he could talk to them and come to a sane and reasonable conclusion.
1.4 - The Lack of Resolution
Despite numerous complaints to various members of staff about Muho’s behaviour in character and metagaming, and the collapse of the BCI - this has continued. The entire BCI faction was taken apart because of it’s flaws, but it’s ugly corpse is still effecting the server, as in it’s destruction not every stone was turned. In my opinion, seeing as the flaws within the BCI caused it’s deletion and remaking as a faction, any knowledge gained from the BCi which is obviously tainted by metagame and rulebreaks should be dropped. For the most part this did happen as BCI characters don’t seem to exist anymore, but informants were not hit by this wave.
2.0 The PK of Muho (and it's mismanagement)
2.1 Establishing Legitimate Reasons for a PK
As I’ll discuss, Salvador refused to consider our justification for a PK and therefore I’d like to go into detail regarding it here to make it crystal clear that we should have been able to conduct a PK, and preventing us to do this was wrong.
Muho was a BCI informant.
We knew this IC, it was not metagamed - we are not and don’t gain any information from BCI so it is impossible for us to metagame it. We were at first suspicious of his constant attempts to get to the cafe and get information from us. Then when he met and had secret conversations in public with known senior BCI members (Harald), our suspicions became more serious. The moment we decided that this was confirmed was when speaking to a BCI agent that visited the store and asked for information.
Here, combined with everything we had seen previously, a BCI agent investigating us immediately recognized someone from just a description.
We also later found out that despite receiving multiple reports to the BCI and being easily recognizable, he was informed about these reports and knew exactly who made them. This only furthered our belief that he was a BCI agent.
Here we directly interact with Muho, and receive confirmation that he knew about this, survived it and then came to us again. He then assured us that he believed we were up to something, and would get to the bottom of it. This seemed like we had foiled his honeypot trap, but he was going to try and continue to hunt us. Further reason to hunt him down, but we weren’t ready to commit yet.
Muho’s inexplicable crusade against Sunrise
For some reason, Muho has decided to make Sunrise his prime target. In terms of constantly attempting to metagame the vent, in terms of discrediting it’s members and threatening serious action against the organisation. He repeatedly threatened to ‘go to war’ with Sunrise, and that he’d ‘expose’ us and ‘destroy’. These were threats that we took seriously, but were vague enough that we had no idea whether they were serious or not. Once we discovered he was a BCI informant and was using his knowledge to destroy our credibility and manipulate rebels into attacking us, we knew action had to be taken.
To this end, Muho has revealed metagamed information regarding our secret room, our hidden vent, presumably to Civil Protection at this point although this is yet to be confirmed. Definitely to his associates and people allied with him.
Muho was and still is trying to destroy our credibility
This is the straw that broke the camel’s back for us, when we were informed by Vortigaunts that Muho had spread information that suggested we were untrustworthy to vortigaunts and therefore rebels. It was clear he was trying to get us killed or at least in serious trouble.
He has also done this in other ways, for example constantly snitching to Civil Protection and trying to get members of our group killed.
Moe says "I got in trouble with them because of miss Max." (referring to BCI)
Moe says (to you) "I can give more information about this Eric dude." (to civil protection)
Moe says "Yes the Sunrise is not welcome here."
Moe says "Fucking snitches."
He has even suggested (incorrectly) that Sunrise was behind the firebombing of the Duchman bar, despite him being the one who threatened to go to war with us - and not the other way around.
Rob Jobbingtinon’s reasoning:
From Sunrise’s perspective, we had had enough of Muho/Moe’s attempts to discredit us. The truth is we should have taken action as soon as we knew he was a BCI agent, but with him contacting vortigaunts and publicly discrediting us, it was way past time to act. Fortunately for us, we found someone who we could set in motion to execute Moe without it ever leading back to us. Rob Jobbington was banned from the Sunrise because he seemed to be a lunatic and did not respect the rules of the establishment and constantly physically fought with the staff. This meant we had separation. Rob Jobbington also despised Muho/Moe after Muho/Moe reported him to Civil Protection for burning down the Flying Duchman (Which Rob did not do). Since then, Rob had lost his citizenship, was forced to live in the slums and wanted revenge against Muho. Luckily, we found out about this when Rob Jobbington helped one of our group members Maxine Lee escape an antlion infested slums. When he did this, he informed Max of his hatred towards Muho. We then set about arming him and primed him to go after and kill Muho. To be clear, Rob Jobbington had his own reasons to PK Muho related to snitching. But regardless of these, we convinced Rob that he had done worse and therefore he was also operating under our reasons to PK.
2.2 - The PK and unPK
This is where things get weird, because there is a side of the story I don’t know the details of. Sunrise has our reasons for PKing, as does Rob Jobbington and we have decided to act on these reasons. But a few hours after the weapon was provided and the would-be assassin was spun into action, Muho was killed by someone else. I do not know OOCly or ICly who this was, I have been led to believe this was Joku’s character who I had believed to be an associate of Muho. Rob had been getting people together and spreading the word about Muho being a rat so that he could have assistance in killing him, but seemingly acted too late.
At 22:34 (BST) Mr Hang Man run the command to PK Muho Falkenberg. And it seemed like the whole thing had ended rather anticlimactically, with someone else getting to Moe first. Then everything went quiet for a while, and we all carried on with our lives.
Unfortunately, less than an hour later at 23:32 Mr Hang Man run the command to unPK Muho Falkenberg.
I’ll get to why this is so annoying later, but within an hour, with no appeal whether private or public, without approval from senior members of staff (and at this moment, neither myself, Steyr nor any other admin I’ve talked to has been able to say why) the PK was revoked. There is a very clear process for how to hash this out, and it allows all sides to have their side and then a conclusion to be drawn to. Instead, within an hour with no oversight and no opportunity for counter argument the PK appears to have been overturned.
Once Moe was unPK’ed, and had knowledge that people were targeting he changed IC. He became much more aggressive, chastised the groups that had caused him problems, and contributed to his death. By this point, Rob had not acquired the assistance of other people who wanted Moe dead, and a group of armed, deadly and committed players were plotting to kill him before more damage could be done. And here enters Salvador.
2.3 - Salvador’s Reaction:
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: Void this now, No more plotting against someone with no reasons.
[LOOC] Zhaklina Pogrebnyakov: -=-
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: nah, he ratted on me.
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: you've had this voided once already.
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: why was it voided once
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: Its been voided.
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: why
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: now i have bol
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: Stop now.
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: because he ratted on me
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: could you say linda
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: he made Rob BOL
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: Bruh, Rob has a reason though
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: which ruined his life
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: Fr
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: i cannot go into the city
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: because moe ratted
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: on me, which is my reason.
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: linda are you even in anymore
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: staff moment
(Salvador left before hearing any other side)
Later
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: i've told you once already, stop now or I will warn you for metagame.
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: How is that metagame
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: you've planned multiple times oocly.
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: What
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: I'm not discussing it further.
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: how
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: Bro, don't spit shit at us
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: next time is a warning
(Salvador again left without hearing the other side, explicitly refusing to hear them out)
I then tried to appeal to him directly:
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): Take it to the forums
[PM] »Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): you take things to the forums to appeal after the fact. you don't block roleplay in the game when you have zero information on what's going on. this is the purpose of pk appeals
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): I've literally seen the dms, I know full well what is happening right now.
[PM] »Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): you've only seen one side
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): Take it to the forums
[PM] »Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): ok it's not gonna go well, you literally have only one half of this and are taking a hardcore side and protecting a player who has valid auths on them
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): Okay.
I don’t know why Mr Hang Man run the unPK command, I have not seen him involved so it could be the case that he was acting on behalf of Salvador or some other staff member but I do not have the details.
I also don’t know who Jessika Brixton (I believe this is Joku’s character), Michele Malvagio or anyone else who was present. I believe Jessika Brixton is the person who PK’ed Muho the first time around.
Salvador seems to believe some kind of metagame is involved, and if this is the case - then the unPK is probably warranted. However there is a process for this, and it does not involve listening to one party, ignoring the other party and unPKing the person less than an hour after they’re killed. Salvador was completely disinterested in hearing the other side to this, and has firmly taken Muho’s side. Some people I have spoken to have theorized that Salvador might have a relationship with Muho, and that Muho has appealed to them directly to get this resolved. I have zero information on what is happening behind the scenes, other than the fact that the normal process was not followed.
So despite having legitimate reasons for PK which have been established previously, Linda has threatened administrative action against those who are plotting against Muho and is outright refusing to hear any other side of the story.
2.4 - Consequences
Due to this abrupt and premature unPK, several things have happened on the server. Muho has been able to act with impunity, we have been forced to take no action against Muho for no reason at all. Meanwhile, Muho continues reporting Sunrise assets, locations and members to Civil Protection (confirmed), as well as continuing to discredit those who were involved in his death. He has effectively gained the information that he would’ve gained from his death, and then continued as normal - and now that he knows he is being hunted is doing everything he can to stay alive. This includes contacting senior figures underground for support, discrediting those involved to these people. This has made the entire situation a mess, and due to the lack of a PK appeal, and Salvador’s inability to listen to the other side, there is no recourse for anyone involved.
Salvador was absolutely correct in his PM when he mentioned this should be happening on the forums. It should be happening on Muho Falkenberg’s PK appeal so everything can be made public. Instead what happened is without any input from the relevant parties, and no explanation so a counter argument can be raised - Salvador has taken the initiative and forced this to be raised as a complaint rather than a PK appeal. If it is the case that this other group was metagaming to kill Muho then it sounds like an unPK is warranted, but this does not make him exempt from any attempt by the same group, or by our group in the future. And preventing this from being plotted has given Muho immunity to the consequences of his actions.
Personally I think Muho should be PKed again until he can appeal and everything is resolved, and then when we know what is authorized and what was metagamed, and heard counterarguments and had input from senior staff who should have been able to comment on this, a conclusion can be reached.
3.0 Double Standards and Bias
3.1 - Muho and Dark
I have to admit this is an area where I am not very well informed, my understanding is that Dark had been targeting my character on his Civil Protection unit and his BCI character which seemed like a conflict of interest, and has been accused of OOCly targeting me because of interactions we have had OOC. I have been informed that there is a thread up related to this and have been given a link while talking with Steyr, but I do not have access so can’t see the details - but more information and evidence regarding this bias is here:
https://willard.network/forums/threads/dark-bci-cpf-metagame-and-ooc-bias.2313/
The reason this becomes relevant here is Muho’s relation to Dark and the implication that this might be OOCly motivated. So far I have not gone into Muho’s motivation much in terms of targeting Sunrise and our characters, and that is because there does not seem to be any. He has been spying and trying to get information on our group specifically (and seemingly almost no one else) since the start of the server. This eventually resulted in the BCI report after his attempted honeypot trap, however he had been targeting us long before this ploy.
The notable thing is that when Muho was an informant, I was informed that his handler was Dark. The thing about this is that Dark’s character was not allowed as per the rules to have an informant, however, Muho was hired anyway and was used to spy on Sunrise. So not only was Muho a BCI informant, he was an informant who was hired through a rulebreak and violation (which is one of the reasons the faction was broken apart). This in addition to the fact that Dark was accused of this OOC bias and then removed from the faction creates further concerns. My understanding is that the only reason no further action was taken against Dark was because the rules were not clearly specified and that he would be removed from faction anyway when it was purged.
This entire section is speculation, as I cannot speak with any degree of certainty to any OOC bias held by Muho or Dark. But it seems to be the case that there is more going on here than Muho simply roleplaying a character, and to be honest it questions Muho’s existence as a character considering the obvious BCI related rulebreaks and loopholes.
3.2 - The Double Standard (why am I here making this thread, and not the person who was PKed?)
This is in my opinion the most important immediate takeaway. While myself and others have been trying to get this resolved for weeks, and while I have been forced to make this forum complaint to get this resolved, Muho was able to (presumably) DM staff members, kick up a fuss without anyone else’s input and get his character unPK’ed.
The process was not followed, and one side was completely ignored while the other side was immediately responded to and received an unPK within an hour with zero context or explanation. I am very interested to hear the explanation, but whether or not it is valid - the fact still remains that there is an unPK procedure which involves a public thread where each side is heard and everything put on the table, input from administrators and relevant faction authorities, and Gr4ss who seems to be the ultimate arbiter in this manner. And for some reason, this was all ignored. The Hang Man and Salvador are the staff members that appear to be involved, although The Hang Man appears to have only run the commands. I do not know if other staff members were involved behind the scenes, or what knowledge exists. But that’s the problem. No one knows. Not the people who attacked Muho, not the people who continue to plot to kill Muho, not even the members of staff I’ve talked to in trying to get a resolution. Why is this being handled in private and in secret instead of on the forums, what exactly is happening here?
note: i'm still waiting for confirmation on some stuff before making edits, but since Muho/Moe is acting right now, in game, unPKed against MC and other characters - I figured it's best to post as quickly as possible.
| Sagsworth (Me) | Betty Arbuckle | My character and the leader of Sunrise. Anytime Sunrise is mentioned, generally Betty’s word is final. |
| Protec | Maxine Lee | A member of Sunrise and a source of information |
| Kappatalist | Eric Bayer | A member of Sunrise currently working in the CMU |
| Araskes | Rob Jobbington | The angry old man we manipulated into killing Muho |
| Muho | Muho ‘Moe’ Falkenburg | The BCI informant we wanted dead, who was PKed and unPKed within an hour |
| BruceMahGoose | Harald Lindgren | The BCI Member who had obvious meetings withMuho, giving us indication that he was arat. |
| ??? | David Schneider | The BCI agent who (inadvertently) helped us confirm Muho’s status |
| Dark | ??? | Muho’s handler in the BCI and a cop who has tried to extort Betty Arbuckle |
| Fatty | Zai’tor | The vortigaunt who informed Sunrise of Moe’s Vortessence messages |
| Joku | Jessika Brixton | An accomplice of Muho and Witness and supporter of the PK, helped motivate group and organise people |
| ??? | ??? | The group of people who PK’ed Muho the first time |
| Salvador | The Staff Member who seems to be protecting Muho from the PK | |
| Mr Hang Man | - | The staff member that ran the PK/unPK command |
| Steyr | - | The staff member I spoke to regarding a resolution last night |
| Rad-x | - | The staff member we contacted regarding Muho’s metagame |
| Yoshitaka Mine | The shooter in the original PK | |
| 'Tigre' | Accomplice in killing Muzungu | |
| Miroslav Zoborsky | Accessory to shooting in original PK |
1.0 Muho's metagaming (and it's lack of a resolution)
To be clear, the reason I have gone into so much detail for this section is two fold:
First, we are still yet to receive conclusive information in terms of what knowledge is metagamed or not relating to the BCI ‘investigations’, and people claiming with no evidence to have knowledge of the vent. While there are other things this complaint focuses on, this is a part I especially want resolved. If when the BCI fell apart, or at any other time staff had weighed in, listened to both sides and decided whether vent knowledge was IC or not, this could have all been avoided. So even if we resolve the situation regarding the PK, it is essential that this metagame situation is finally put to bed so we can finally continue with what should be happening IC.
1.1 - Setting the Scene
Since day one on the server, we have been having problems with people trying to metagame the secret vent in the Sunrise. A number of staff members have offered support for situations where it's happened, but there were still issues all the same. People would look at the map on single-player, come to the store in-game when the slums were inaccessible, and beg us to let them through the vent. We told them they did not have knowledge of the vent every time, but it happened enough that people would talk about it. We would always put up a /scenetext mentioning that the vent was blocked by a cabinet, but people realizing that they'd have to get knowledge of the vent IC'ly would ignore this. As soon as the vent was visible, they'd scream "WHAT'S IN THAT VENT?" and demand to get IC knowledge from it. This is obviously motivated by OOC knowledge of the vent, as characters are not this insistent about vents or parts of the map that are not actually accessible or secret. But again, it happened enough times and enough people took it ICly that it became a problem for us. Eventually and thankfully @hawke moved our cabinet to block the vent and no-collided it, and since then this issue has been reduced massively - but the metagame continues to have consequences. To be clear, I have a list of people who ICly know about the vent, it is very short, and as far as I'm aware no one has been caught using it, and therefore knows about its existence.
Muho was one of these people. I have stated very cleared to him that if he has a single ounce of evidence that his knowledge of the vent is real, then all is fine. But he doesn’t have anything, as I’ll mention in 1.3.
1.2 - The BCI Problem
My knowledge of the BCI is limited as I am not a member, and my understanding is that information about the faction is kept very ICly and OOCly hidden. However, from what I have gathered its first iteration was a mess, with a lack of senior management, agents failing to follow rules, and metagame accusations running rampant. Fortunately, this has been cleaned up in terms of actual faction members, but in terms of their associates, there are lingering consequences. Muho was an informant for Dark, which I will get into later. As an informant, he was not an official member, and therefore escaped the purge and upcoming changes to the faction. As a result, despite the faction that conducted many investigations against us being removed due to the obvious rule breaks made by various faction members, lack of management, and metagame, the knowledge that was supposedly gained from this lives on through these ex-BCI members.
I don't know the details, but it is clear to me at this time that the BCI were interested in the Sunrise due to these various reports of vents, and that Muho had been sent to spy on his. His public but quiet meetings with prominent and public-facing BCI members, constantly coming and asking questions. And then at one point he tried to catch one of our staff in a honeytrap. Protec's character Maxine Lee was confronted by Muho who (while being a BCI informant), told her that he wanted her to be involved in rebel activities and "knew that sunrise was run by rebels". This put Maxine in a catch-22, where on one hand if she does nothing, she has committed inaction and can be killed by the BCI. On the other hand, if she reports Muho then he can use this as an excuse to kill her. She decided to report this to a senior BCI agent, which resulted in Muho's firing. Muho has IC'ly spoken about this, and therefore this knowledge is pretty clearly known ICly which will be important later for explaining the reasons that our interest in PKing Muho is valid.
1.3 - The Confrontation (OOC)
Eventually, I got tired of this situation and decided to DM Muho directly, as not only did he claim to have knowledge he was spreading this metagame’d information to other people. Unfortunately, I do not have screenshots of this conversation, although I hope that Muho would not claim that I am lying about them. If he does, they can be fished up in logs as they were on the server. I told him to stop metagaming knowledge of the vent, and told him that he did not have it IC’ly. When asking for any evidence of how he got this knowledge, he claimed that:
- While an informant for the BCI he saw a vent in slums, immediately assumed it was actively used and decided that it must be connected to the closest shop. This is in my opinion, obvious metagame, because Muho OOCly knows that the vent exists and is in use, he is grasping for an excuse to get access to it. It reminds me of on i17 when a person does “/me flushes the toilet” in the grotto as an excuse to access the grotto base. Obviously bullshit.
- He was told by other people but conveniently doesn’t have any names and didn’t ask for any evidence they have IC knowledge. I imagine this is related to 1.1, where I established that in the early days of the server people tried to metagame it.
- He had seen MC go into the backroom with people to discuss things, and therefore there was a rebel conspiracy that he had to look into. This is obviously just looking for an excuse, every single business in the game speaks to their employees privately, it’s simply responsible.
I specifically mentioned talking to Rad-X and did this, I asked him to speak to the people involved and ask them to stop metagaming this information. I haven’t heard back from him to hear confirmation that this has happened or how it went.
Please note that I did not try and feed him false information, present a false narrative and expect him to simply back me up without speaking to the other party. Rather, I hoped that he could talk to them and come to a sane and reasonable conclusion.
1.4 - The Lack of Resolution
Despite numerous complaints to various members of staff about Muho’s behaviour in character and metagaming, and the collapse of the BCI - this has continued. The entire BCI faction was taken apart because of it’s flaws, but it’s ugly corpse is still effecting the server, as in it’s destruction not every stone was turned. In my opinion, seeing as the flaws within the BCI caused it’s deletion and remaking as a faction, any knowledge gained from the BCi which is obviously tainted by metagame and rulebreaks should be dropped. For the most part this did happen as BCI characters don’t seem to exist anymore, but informants were not hit by this wave.
2.0 The PK of Muho (and it's mismanagement)
2.1 Establishing Legitimate Reasons for a PK
As I’ll discuss, Salvador refused to consider our justification for a PK and therefore I’d like to go into detail regarding it here to make it crystal clear that we should have been able to conduct a PK, and preventing us to do this was wrong.
Muho was a BCI informant.
We knew this IC, it was not metagamed - we are not and don’t gain any information from BCI so it is impossible for us to metagame it. We were at first suspicious of his constant attempts to get to the cafe and get information from us. Then when he met and had secret conversations in public with known senior BCI members (Harald), our suspicions became more serious. The moment we decided that this was confirmed was when speaking to a BCI agent that visited the store and asked for information.
Here, combined with everything we had seen previously, a BCI agent investigating us immediately recognized someone from just a description.
We also later found out that despite receiving multiple reports to the BCI and being easily recognizable, he was informed about these reports and knew exactly who made them. This only furthered our belief that he was a BCI agent.
Here we directly interact with Muho, and receive confirmation that he knew about this, survived it and then came to us again. He then assured us that he believed we were up to something, and would get to the bottom of it. This seemed like we had foiled his honeypot trap, but he was going to try and continue to hunt us. Further reason to hunt him down, but we weren’t ready to commit yet.
Muho’s inexplicable crusade against Sunrise
For some reason, Muho has decided to make Sunrise his prime target. In terms of constantly attempting to metagame the vent, in terms of discrediting it’s members and threatening serious action against the organisation. He repeatedly threatened to ‘go to war’ with Sunrise, and that he’d ‘expose’ us and ‘destroy’. These were threats that we took seriously, but were vague enough that we had no idea whether they were serious or not. Once we discovered he was a BCI informant and was using his knowledge to destroy our credibility and manipulate rebels into attacking us, we knew action had to be taken.
To this end, Muho has revealed metagamed information regarding our secret room, our hidden vent, presumably to Civil Protection at this point although this is yet to be confirmed. Definitely to his associates and people allied with him.
Muho was and still is trying to destroy our credibility
This is the straw that broke the camel’s back for us, when we were informed by Vortigaunts that Muho had spread information that suggested we were untrustworthy to vortigaunts and therefore rebels. It was clear he was trying to get us killed or at least in serious trouble.
He has also done this in other ways, for example constantly snitching to Civil Protection and trying to get members of our group killed.
Moe says "I got in trouble with them because of miss Max." (referring to BCI)
Moe says (to you) "I can give more information about this Eric dude." (to civil protection)
Moe says "Yes the Sunrise is not welcome here."
Moe says "Fucking snitches."
He has even suggested (incorrectly) that Sunrise was behind the firebombing of the Duchman bar, despite him being the one who threatened to go to war with us - and not the other way around.
Rob Jobbingtinon’s reasoning:
From Sunrise’s perspective, we had had enough of Muho/Moe’s attempts to discredit us. The truth is we should have taken action as soon as we knew he was a BCI agent, but with him contacting vortigaunts and publicly discrediting us, it was way past time to act. Fortunately for us, we found someone who we could set in motion to execute Moe without it ever leading back to us. Rob Jobbington was banned from the Sunrise because he seemed to be a lunatic and did not respect the rules of the establishment and constantly physically fought with the staff. This meant we had separation. Rob Jobbington also despised Muho/Moe after Muho/Moe reported him to Civil Protection for burning down the Flying Duchman (Which Rob did not do). Since then, Rob had lost his citizenship, was forced to live in the slums and wanted revenge against Muho. Luckily, we found out about this when Rob Jobbington helped one of our group members Maxine Lee escape an antlion infested slums. When he did this, he informed Max of his hatred towards Muho. We then set about arming him and primed him to go after and kill Muho. To be clear, Rob Jobbington had his own reasons to PK Muho related to snitching. But regardless of these, we convinced Rob that he had done worse and therefore he was also operating under our reasons to PK.
2.2 - The PK and unPK
This is where things get weird, because there is a side of the story I don’t know the details of. Sunrise has our reasons for PKing, as does Rob Jobbington and we have decided to act on these reasons. But a few hours after the weapon was provided and the would-be assassin was spun into action, Muho was killed by someone else. I do not know OOCly or ICly who this was, I have been led to believe this was Joku’s character who I had believed to be an associate of Muho. Rob had been getting people together and spreading the word about Muho being a rat so that he could have assistance in killing him, but seemingly acted too late.
At 22:34 (BST) Mr Hang Man run the command to PK Muho Falkenberg. And it seemed like the whole thing had ended rather anticlimactically, with someone else getting to Moe first. Then everything went quiet for a while, and we all carried on with our lives.
Unfortunately, less than an hour later at 23:32 Mr Hang Man run the command to unPK Muho Falkenberg.
I’ll get to why this is so annoying later, but within an hour, with no appeal whether private or public, without approval from senior members of staff (and at this moment, neither myself, Steyr nor any other admin I’ve talked to has been able to say why) the PK was revoked. There is a very clear process for how to hash this out, and it allows all sides to have their side and then a conclusion to be drawn to. Instead, within an hour with no oversight and no opportunity for counter argument the PK appears to have been overturned.
Once Moe was unPK’ed, and had knowledge that people were targeting he changed IC. He became much more aggressive, chastised the groups that had caused him problems, and contributed to his death. By this point, Rob had not acquired the assistance of other people who wanted Moe dead, and a group of armed, deadly and committed players were plotting to kill him before more damage could be done. And here enters Salvador.
2.3 - Salvador’s Reaction:
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: Void this now, No more plotting against someone with no reasons.
[LOOC] Zhaklina Pogrebnyakov: -=-
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: nah, he ratted on me.
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: you've had this voided once already.
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: why was it voided once
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: Its been voided.
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: why
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: now i have bol
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: Stop now.
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: because he ratted on me
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: could you say linda
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: he made Rob BOL
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: Bruh, Rob has a reason though
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: which ruined his life
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: Fr
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: i cannot go into the city
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: because moe ratted
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: on me, which is my reason.
[LOOC] Jessika Brixton: linda are you even in anymore
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: staff moment
(Salvador left before hearing any other side)
Later
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: i've told you once already, stop now or I will warn you for metagame.
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: How is that metagame
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: you've planned multiple times oocly.
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: What
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: I'm not discussing it further.
[LOOC] Rob Jobbington: how
[LOOC] Michele Malvagio: Bro, don't spit shit at us
[LOOC] Linda Lundstrum: next time is a warning
(Salvador again left without hearing the other side, explicitly refusing to hear them out)
I then tried to appeal to him directly:
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): Take it to the forums
[PM] »Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): you take things to the forums to appeal after the fact. you don't block roleplay in the game when you have zero information on what's going on. this is the purpose of pk appeals
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): I've literally seen the dms, I know full well what is happening right now.
[PM] »Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): you've only seen one side
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): Take it to the forums
[PM] »Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): ok it's not gonna go well, you literally have only one half of this and are taking a hardcore side and protecting a player who has valid auths on them
[PM] Linda Lundstrum (🗲🗲 Salvador 🗲🗲): Okay.
I don’t know why Mr Hang Man run the unPK command, I have not seen him involved so it could be the case that he was acting on behalf of Salvador or some other staff member but I do not have the details.
I also don’t know who Jessika Brixton (I believe this is Joku’s character), Michele Malvagio or anyone else who was present. I believe Jessika Brixton is the person who PK’ed Muho the first time around.
Salvador seems to believe some kind of metagame is involved, and if this is the case - then the unPK is probably warranted. However there is a process for this, and it does not involve listening to one party, ignoring the other party and unPKing the person less than an hour after they’re killed. Salvador was completely disinterested in hearing the other side to this, and has firmly taken Muho’s side. Some people I have spoken to have theorized that Salvador might have a relationship with Muho, and that Muho has appealed to them directly to get this resolved. I have zero information on what is happening behind the scenes, other than the fact that the normal process was not followed.
So despite having legitimate reasons for PK which have been established previously, Linda has threatened administrative action against those who are plotting against Muho and is outright refusing to hear any other side of the story.
2.4 - Consequences
Due to this abrupt and premature unPK, several things have happened on the server. Muho has been able to act with impunity, we have been forced to take no action against Muho for no reason at all. Meanwhile, Muho continues reporting Sunrise assets, locations and members to Civil Protection (confirmed), as well as continuing to discredit those who were involved in his death. He has effectively gained the information that he would’ve gained from his death, and then continued as normal - and now that he knows he is being hunted is doing everything he can to stay alive. This includes contacting senior figures underground for support, discrediting those involved to these people. This has made the entire situation a mess, and due to the lack of a PK appeal, and Salvador’s inability to listen to the other side, there is no recourse for anyone involved.
Salvador was absolutely correct in his PM when he mentioned this should be happening on the forums. It should be happening on Muho Falkenberg’s PK appeal so everything can be made public. Instead what happened is without any input from the relevant parties, and no explanation so a counter argument can be raised - Salvador has taken the initiative and forced this to be raised as a complaint rather than a PK appeal. If it is the case that this other group was metagaming to kill Muho then it sounds like an unPK is warranted, but this does not make him exempt from any attempt by the same group, or by our group in the future. And preventing this from being plotted has given Muho immunity to the consequences of his actions.
Personally I think Muho should be PKed again until he can appeal and everything is resolved, and then when we know what is authorized and what was metagamed, and heard counterarguments and had input from senior staff who should have been able to comment on this, a conclusion can be reached.
3.0 Double Standards and Bias
3.1 - Muho and Dark
I have to admit this is an area where I am not very well informed, my understanding is that Dark had been targeting my character on his Civil Protection unit and his BCI character which seemed like a conflict of interest, and has been accused of OOCly targeting me because of interactions we have had OOC. I have been informed that there is a thread up related to this and have been given a link while talking with Steyr, but I do not have access so can’t see the details - but more information and evidence regarding this bias is here:
https://willard.network/forums/threads/dark-bci-cpf-metagame-and-ooc-bias.2313/
The reason this becomes relevant here is Muho’s relation to Dark and the implication that this might be OOCly motivated. So far I have not gone into Muho’s motivation much in terms of targeting Sunrise and our characters, and that is because there does not seem to be any. He has been spying and trying to get information on our group specifically (and seemingly almost no one else) since the start of the server. This eventually resulted in the BCI report after his attempted honeypot trap, however he had been targeting us long before this ploy.
The notable thing is that when Muho was an informant, I was informed that his handler was Dark. The thing about this is that Dark’s character was not allowed as per the rules to have an informant, however, Muho was hired anyway and was used to spy on Sunrise. So not only was Muho a BCI informant, he was an informant who was hired through a rulebreak and violation (which is one of the reasons the faction was broken apart). This in addition to the fact that Dark was accused of this OOC bias and then removed from the faction creates further concerns. My understanding is that the only reason no further action was taken against Dark was because the rules were not clearly specified and that he would be removed from faction anyway when it was purged.
This entire section is speculation, as I cannot speak with any degree of certainty to any OOC bias held by Muho or Dark. But it seems to be the case that there is more going on here than Muho simply roleplaying a character, and to be honest it questions Muho’s existence as a character considering the obvious BCI related rulebreaks and loopholes.
3.2 - The Double Standard (why am I here making this thread, and not the person who was PKed?)
This is in my opinion the most important immediate takeaway. While myself and others have been trying to get this resolved for weeks, and while I have been forced to make this forum complaint to get this resolved, Muho was able to (presumably) DM staff members, kick up a fuss without anyone else’s input and get his character unPK’ed.
The process was not followed, and one side was completely ignored while the other side was immediately responded to and received an unPK within an hour with zero context or explanation. I am very interested to hear the explanation, but whether or not it is valid - the fact still remains that there is an unPK procedure which involves a public thread where each side is heard and everything put on the table, input from administrators and relevant faction authorities, and Gr4ss who seems to be the ultimate arbiter in this manner. And for some reason, this was all ignored. The Hang Man and Salvador are the staff members that appear to be involved, although The Hang Man appears to have only run the commands. I do not know if other staff members were involved behind the scenes, or what knowledge exists. But that’s the problem. No one knows. Not the people who attacked Muho, not the people who continue to plot to kill Muho, not even the members of staff I’ve talked to in trying to get a resolution. Why is this being handled in private and in secret instead of on the forums, what exactly is happening here?
note: i'm still waiting for confirmation on some stuff before making edits, but since Muho/Moe is acting right now, in game, unPKed against MC and other characters - I figured it's best to post as quickly as possible.
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