The Return of IC Communication (for rebels)

[Fedora]

As I started maining Rebel recently, I've come to a roadblock in regards to planning for things that I wish for our group to do IC. I understand that some IC communication in discord was removed due to wanting to have more IC communication in-game and fears of meta around it. Unfortuantely, I don't believe this has worked out in the favour for rebels, (I cannot say for other factions, and if you don't main rebel and are in another faction and think you can benefit from IC communication, please reply to the thread) I know that Civ Pro have things such as Command Updates, Status Updates and Sweep Reports.


So here is what I propose, the return of IC comms to rebel factions where it will be moderated as this:

What you are allowed to do with IC comms:
-For Resistance, we already have an intranet where Rebel Leaders can communicate orders for their group and meet ups
-So I suggest we allow the same for rebel groups but inbetween them. So a rebel may be able to ask of their group "Ok so I require x item, please place an order or someone give it to me" and someone is able to respond.
- I also think that if you are planning to go onto an expo or doing an event, you are able to ask in the IC comms of getting a count of resources, who is coming (which is still done in an OOC way anyways), ask people to get on for a specific event or say that you've done something within the base (or waiting in base)

What you can't do:
- You aren't able to radio in about ongoing sweeps.
- Not being able to meta sensitive info into IC comms such as people's real names,.
- If someone has gotten captured (and it's currently ongoing)


These bullet points are just suggestions, I'm open to changes to the bullet points but my biggest gripe without having IC comms is not being able to communicate to my group for things such as a count for gear, and I'm not able to talk to certain people due to timezone differeneces and I feel just returning IC comms would be beneficial (and if it is moderated to avoid too much meta)

 

[ItsLiam]

I want to add onto this.

Robert, the gameplay manager, also said that Rebels didn't abuse the IC comms in any way. We were basically just fucked over due to a change happening to all other factions which I think is kind of unfair since we did nothing wrong and the IC comms added a lot of use for the rebel 'faction' as a whole.

I also think that the staff that pushed for this forgot something. Rebels aren't a unified faction, Rebels aren't a whitelist faction and no amount of OOC restrictions or OOC changes will make all rebels be a unified, whitelisted faction. Think of a singular group as a whitelisted faction, not the entire rebellion as a faction. The Rebel Groups in between them are factions due to them needing IC applications or invitations to join.

Also, the Civil Protection has IC comms, the CWU has IC comms and whatever else faction also has them, why don't rebels have them? It's really unfair that only 'rebel leaders' are allowed to have a IC radio, since it's near impossible to relay the information to ur entire group.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

I advocate for excessive use of in-game communications

Just group up together into the same group and use the computer terminal... or if not that, share a computer terminal together as leaders that's hidden in a marked place in the infested zone.



Scripts are king
Discord is f***

Make computers, radios and paper more accessible if you want to replace the free price tag of 3rd party platforms.

 

[Fedora]

I advocate for excessive use of in-game communications

Just group up together into the same group and use the computer terminal... or if not that, share a computer terminal together as leaders that's hidden in a marked place in the infested zone.

View attachment 31255

Scripts are king
Discord is f***

Make computers, radios and paper more accessible if you want to replace the free price tag of 3rd party platforms.

I understand what you are trying to say and want to implement but it doesn't work out practically. Discord is easier to access, many members can open up the mobile app or just look at a ping on their desktop rather then having to go in game (some who have to connect for like 10 mins to join). Also, I imagine many rebel groups will only use one computer terminal, and at that point, the whole IC comms becomes null as you can just talk in-game. If a person is offline, sure you could put something in the computer, but you can't guarantee that the person will look at the computer when they get on and if you ping them to get on to look, might aswell use discord.

also counter argument, edicts.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

I understand what you are trying to say and want to implement but it doesn't work out practically. Discord is easier to access, many members can open up the mobile app or just look at a ping on their desktop rather then having to go in game (some who have to connect for like 10 mins to join). Also, I imagine many rebel groups will only use one computer terminal, and at that point, the whole IC comms becomes null as you can just talk in-game. If a person is offline, sure you could put something in the computer, but you can't guarantee that the person will look at the computer when they get on and if you ping them to get on to look, might aswell use discord.

also counter argument, edicts.

Counter counter-argument

I understand that having discord reduces pain points by making it far more convenient and secure when communicating, since discord offers free and secure accessibility to comms.

It is far easier to communicate OOC:ly when it is readily accessible, such as when you mentioned being able to have it through an app on the phone. The platform also has several control features when designing the chat server, roles and having access to features such as forwarding images, videos and more. I can't stress enough that it is convenient for any form of organizing digital groups.

However, If rebels require having discord, it sets a precedent on the server that you are required to have discord in order to be able to access roleplay as a rebel since all of that happens outside of the game. It also serves as a tool to rope people to activity through OOC means, since you would be using a platform that has high traffic, in which is easy to capture attention and is difficult to excuse oneself from.

You mention that being left unread is an issue with terminals, but, the framework i hastily drew proposes to use the letter system in checking up on activity. The reason why i would emphasize on using more ingame comms is because it encourages more roleplay compared to having it on a 3rd platform. You can see how complex it can get, though through the complexity of ingame communications, comes opportunities to invite players to experience small yet significant roles of forwarding messages while also being somewhat vulnerable to spying.

On the matter of practicality, i disagree. It all comes down to the design of communication which is key. I have already proven that in practice by utilizing only in-game group info system with two computers to enable players without the ability to spawn items in selling items through this practical guide (How to run your DOB certified store like Amazon). Hopefully rebels can find inspiration from it.

The use of OOC discords for IC purposes is blurred, as anything that is used on there - cannot exactly be used for in-game purposes. For instance, how would a supposedly snitch operate in the discord. Do they document text messages as screenshots which they send to the CCA dms? It's a bit ridiculous, and that is what makes it somewhat overpowered since it gets informal metaprotection. It is free communication without consequences and i believe that removes a lot of roleplay opportunity, by being essentially the rebel groups super encrypted Facebook group. Furthermore, it is also accessible for characters post-mortum which may complicate IC with OOC further.

 

[ItsLiam]

Counter counter-argument

I understand that having discord reduces pain points by making it far more convenient and secure when communicating, since discord offers free and secure accessibility to comms.

It is far easier to communicate OOC:ly when it is readily accessible, such as when you mentioned being able to have it through an app on the phone. The platform also has several control features when designing the chat server, roles and having access to features such as forwarding images, videos and more. I can't stress enough that it is convenient for any form of organizing digital groups.

However, If rebels require having discord, it sets a precedent on the server that you are required to have discord in order to be able to access roleplay as a rebel since all of that happens outside of the game. It also serves as a tool to rope people to activity through OOC means, since you would be using a platform that has high traffic, in which is easy to capture attention and is difficult to excuse oneself from.

You mention that being left unread is an issue with terminals, but, the framework i hastily drew proposes to use the letter system in checking up on activity. The reason why i would emphasize on using more ingame comms is because it encourages more roleplay compared to having it on a 3rd platform. You can see how complex it can get, though through the complexity of ingame communications, comes opportunities to invite players to experience small yet significant roles of forwarding messages while also being somewhat vulnerable to spying.

On the matter of practicality, i disagree. It all comes down to the design of communication which is key. I have already proven that in practice by utilizing only in-game group info system with two computers to enable players without the ability to spawn items in selling items through this practical guide (How to run your DOB certified store like Amazon). Hopefully rebels can find inspiration from it.

The use of OOC discords for IC purposes is blurred, as anything that is used on there - cannot exactly be used for in-game purposes. For instance, how would a supposedly snitch operate in the discord. Do they document text messages as screenshots which they send to the CCA dms? It's a bit ridiculous, and that is what makes it somewhat overpowered since it gets informal metaprotection. It is free communication without consequences and i believe that removes a lot of roleplay opportunity, by being essentially the rebel groups super encrypted Facebook group. Furthermore, it is also accessible for characters post-mortum which may complicate IC with OOC further.

While all of this is fine, you're forgetting something. You're not allowed to use the IC comms for basic communication. Only for announcements, meeting time and locations, what people need to grab, when an expo is, etc. You're not allowed to use meta info over the IC communications.

It does NOT get meta protection, since you're given access to it via an in game something. Meaning, you can hand over the information to the CCA character ICly, and give them the information via dms. It's not ridiculous in any way since it's the same thing we use the forums for with all the notes leading to a forum link.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

what people need to grab, when an expo is

Expo's are announced on the forums and people are required to apply to them. In the description of the expo when filing for it can have a description of what form of equipment would be needed by it's participants, only reason for the use of discord around this would be doing OOC checkups of what people currently have, however...

You're not allowed to use meta info over the IC communications.

Therefore, there is no real need for discords other than it being more convenient.


Meanwhile, if the discord is...

Only for announcements, meeting time and locations

These uses can simply be achieved through utilizing the in-game touchpoints that were illustrated in the framework. For replying attendance can be achieved through the computer chat within the group. If there are external groups involved, the leader of that group is responsible for summoning their part, which can be achieved through a shared computer or by using letters through frontmen.

 

[HOKI]

Also, the Civil Protection has IC comms, the CWU has IC comms and whatever else faction also has them, why don't rebels have them? It's really unfair that only 'rebel leaders' are allowed to have a IC radio, since it's near impossible to relay the information to ur entire group.

Civil Protection does not have IC comms on Discord.
Civil Protection uses three channels for specific kinds of broad, in-character announcements; #command-updates for updates from Civil Protection command, #status-updates for major socio-status changes (it hasn't been used since October), #sweep-reports and #all-points-bulletin for wanted individuals. Civil Protection also has threads for Dispatch notes as it's supposed to be one AI and not ~10 people, a few threads command logs for promotions/demotions, rewards/punishments.

There is no pager or form of in-character communication for Civil Protection members to use over Discord. The only pager that exists is the MCP pager -- but like the #status-updates channel, it hasn't been used since October -- so it's essentially null.

The above mentioned channels are necessary channels for relaying information pertinent and sometimes critical to faction operations.
Update (command, status & apb) channels are needed because Civil Protection would receive them via PDA.
Logging channels (command logs, dispatch logs, etc) are required for out-of-character organization, keeping track.

Don't lie, please!!!

 

[albertossic]

On the matter of practicality, i disagree. It all comes down to the design of communication which is key. I have already proven that in practice by utilizing only in-game group info system with two computers to enable players without the ability to spawn items in selling items through this practical guide (How to run your DOB certified store like Amazon). Hopefully rebels can find inspiration from it.

That guide is entirely impractical from a mechanical perspective since it does not factor in the budget of your clerks and sounds interminable from a roleplay perspective, amending storeRP with hours of bookkeeping that are not needed, demanded or interesting - no offense, just my opinion

I don't think this philosophy should be the basis on deciding how communication works for a much larger and diverse group of players than whatever bankrupt-in-a-week no-RP sweatshop this would have been

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

That guide is entirely impractical from a mechanical perspective since it does not factor in the budget of your clerks and sounds interminable from a roleplay perspective, amending storeRP with hours of bookkeeping that are not needed, demanded or interesting - no offense, just my opinion

I don't think this philosophy should be the basis on deciding how communication works for a much larger and diverse group of players than whatever bankrupt-in-a-week no-RP sweatshop this would have been

As ridiculous as it may seem to you, it was highly practical back in 2021 and enabled all members to profit above the average with minimal bookkeeping practices. It also worked as a springboard for many new players to get faster into commerce rp.

It was all made possible by simplified instructions of procedures that were available from the computer and highly deskilled practices. Flexible with workers to work whenever convenient for them. This enabled high activity which was much needed from stores back then, due to being able to have more permitless employees who posed a smaller risk on script abuse being much needed when you had to have a few tens of LP to even be permitted one.

Hell, it was also compatible in a systematic way on cooperation with the civil protection.

Being able to do such without discord is an example I highly encourage. If it was unclear, you should elaborate how rather than reject.

On the subject of budget. As it was sales oriented, it ran on a commission model. Sales granted a provision and there was a minimum weekly salary. However, with quotas that determined layoffs.

To be able to make an accurate budget, I would have had to bookkeep more thoroughly to answer your question, all documentation was in-game limited to the roleplay only.

However, a range I could assume from experience is that you'd only need around 150-300 credits for initial investment. Once the sales get going it's easy to snowball, especially when it's done by employees.

 

[Robert]

Okay, I see there is some wishing for this to make a return, others not.

But reading through, whats being requested already exists and that is the Intranet relay which non-leaders can get access to if given- but since its not really given, what I can do instead is allow one singular IC Intranet sub channel for everyone not a Group Leader to allow them organize their meet ups and relay important info.

ONTOP of allowing important IC notices in Group Announcements channels so group leaders can relay key info to their group without needing to wait til everyone is in game to share what could be a 30 second discord message.

Of course, relay restrictions will still apply meaning no meta, no conversations, cooldowns and word limits.

But that is what I can offer atm. Nothing beyond this.

 

[Bassilisk]

Hello,
So, I read through the thread, and I can't allow for there to be a lot of messages sent within discord. Especially if those are providing a lot of IC information.

We have the means in-game to get info to players who are not online at the same time (The computer using the group communications section). One thing I could do is I could include a channel for each group in the discord that a player can post into if they have put something new into that section.
It would be something akin to a "New message" notice. That way players can know when there is an update or an important request and can go and check whenever they get in game. The players posting it could @ a specific player for it, or even @ the group as a whole. If they want, they could note something as a priority message that is highly important for their group to see.

The main thing we want to avoid is people doing everything through discord as that was the main reason why IC relays were culled to begin with. There should be a reason to be on the main server and players should be doing a majority of their stuff through the main server.


Regardless my suggested compromise to this is as follows:
1. Each group gains a new channel called "Group Notifications" (With group being their group name)
2. The channel is for indicating that a new message has been put on the groups computer or in their group communications section (On the computers)
3. This channel is an IC channel that is limited in scope to only allowing for notifications. They should be short messages that can @ specific people or the group as a whole.

3.1. Note: Message examples are as follows: "New Message for @jonrebel", "New Group Message", "Priority Group Notification/Message", "Priority Individual Message", etc.​

4. Beyond the message notifications, emotes are allowed to indicate a player has seen the message IC

 

[Inspector Orlok]

I feel like the line for this will become very blurred very quickly.

 

[ItsLiam]

Regardless my suggested compromise to this is as follows:
1. Each group gains a new channel called "Group Notifications" (With group being their group name)
2. The channel is for indicating that a new message has been put on the groups computer or in their group communications section (On the computers)
3. This channel is an IC channel that is limited in scope to only allowing for notifications. They should be short messages that can @ specific people or the group as a whole.

3.1. Note: Message examples are as follows: "New Message for @jonrebel", "New Group Message", "Priority Group Notification/Message", "Priority Individual Message", etc.​

4. Beyond the message notifications, emotes are allowed to indicate a player has seen the message IC

Will we be able to put ```*A NOTE HAS BEEN HUNG UP INSIDE THE BASE*``` to indicate something like that?

 

[Bassilisk]

Will we be able to put ```*A NOTE HAS BEEN HUNG UP INSIDE THE BASE*``` to indicate something like that?

You could do something like that if it is a note or you could have it be a simple "New message for #### on Computer."

I don't expect people to check the computers like a hawk, this is just a way to let people know if there are updates they should see.

 

[ItsLiam]

Getting a computer is pretty hard though...

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

Getting a computer is pretty hard though...

Make computers, radios and paper more accessible if you want to replace the free price tag of 3rd party platforms.

 

[Neonity]

Getting a computer is pretty hard though...

This does make the investment considerably more worth it, though.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

This does make the investment considerably more worth it, though.

Not quite, the more expensive it is - the more likely players are to not use it since any form of 3 party comms are free

 

[Bassilisk]

Not quite, the more expensive it is - the more likely players are to not use it since any form of 3 party comms are free

I mean.
If people are going to use other 3rd party comms to convey a lot of information then that can, and should, be taken as metagame.
This is a way to keep things in-character, have people actually care about the in-game option that is available and still have some notice when they are not in the game.