Ultima Abuse Report

[Curbalas]

Hi to everybody reading this. This will be a quite long complaint thread so please take your time reading through it.

First of all, I would like to begin by what has happened that led me to making this thread initially. My character, David Pernekos or Yuri was charbanned by ultima due to unfair OOC circumstances.

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To first begin, we were just out of harvesting crystals with my character's group, Tuu'By'Llam, there was an unknown woman character whose name was Nam Sook-Joo, and she helped us quite a lot fending off zombies that spawned due to the crystal. Later on after we concluded the harvesting, I wanted to gift her a few boxes of ammo and an USP-45.

We were at the refugee camp, where I got the gifts I wanted to give her from my base, the pistol was in my inventory, I accidentally dropped the bag on to the ground while trying to drop the pistols, I then opened the bag on the ground using the "View" command, opened the bag inventory and attempted to drop the USP-45 and 71 pistol bullets, which it failed apparently, I have not noticed that until the character has told me ICly that she didn't got any pistols from my gifts.

This is where the so-called problem begins, I entered observer mode to check if the pistol has phased through a prop, or just vanished entirely. I have asked others on the GM chat, and albertossic has given me the ID for the pistol, before I was gonna check the pistol's ID on the logs being in the observer mode, a CP sweep came in to the refugee camp, which I was completely oblivious to it. I was both listening to music while helping her out, and the CPs came a solid 30-40 seconds after I entered noclip, there were no way that I could've been evading a sweep, how would I know there would be a sweep from that far away?

I kept checking the logs before actually seeing the CPs coming in, quite shocked at that moment myself because I was actually oblivious to the situation at-hand. Ultima then begins to tell me that I don't handle refunds, and it is clear that this situation is NOT a refund situation, but a situation where I check if the gun has phased through, after all I gave the pistol to her, there was no need for a refund request for any of this minimal incident.

After this, I tell Ultima that there should be a 30 second rewind for me to get back ICly, because it is not fair for both sides, I wanted to ensure that both sides got a chance of this. Then I was shocked to see that Ultima telling me to leave no-clip in the middle of the CPs and accept me geting shot down/captured by CPs. I was immediately against this, because this is highly unfair for me, like obviously? Who would do that?

Rewinds has happened back in the past, even for lesser situations which I have told ultima in our small arguement in /gm chat, I know this because these stuff happened when I was CP, where we were told to go back a few steps, like 30 seconds back and resume sweeping for a guy being AFK, this was a much more serious situation honestly. Ultima has denied this request, completely against this idea and kept telling me to leave no-clip with no bargaining, ultima has told me this was a fight impossible for me to win. And that is not remotely close to true, and even if it was, why would I accept FTB my character being killed in a fight without me actually participating in it?

If there were a rewind, I would immediately get ready after hearing the vocoders, call in my vortigaunt allies to defend my ass because they were coming to fight with me, and hide in a wall where I could have a combat advantage.

After a few more minutes of arguements, where I have insisted on a rewind of this sweep, for just 30 seconds prior, right before the coupon trader it was completely denied, I was also threatened by MazuzaM for a warning if I kept arguing with ultima, which is quite comedical too. The whole situation was honestly scuffed, there should've been a rewind where both sides would've gotten a fair chance of fighting, because that is what happens in sewer sweeps, like been like that for months or even years.

After a last "final warning" from ultima my character, David Pernekos was charbanned by ultima, and ultima has told the CPs in /cp chat that there were an IC rebel that got killed fighting them, which is quite unfair and sad, metaphorically.

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Count this thread as both a report against ultima and a PK appeal for David Pernekos, thus why I should ping @Cengiz to this thread.

Cengiz has authorized me to use logs for this thread, any evidence can be found below, it is quite hefty.




For your information, I was not stalling, I was completely defending my character because of this unfair situation.









For the last conclusion, it is quite saddening to see an ex-PK manager rooting for an extremely unfair PK like this, yeah.

 

[ultima]

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[Curbalas]

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Both of these clips completely support the fact that I have told in the thread.

a CP sweep came in to the refugee camp, which I was completely oblivious to it. I was both listening to music while helping her out, and the CPs came a solid 30-40 seconds after I entered noclip, there were no way that I could've been evading a sweep, how would I know there would be a sweep from that far away?

They didn't talk, or run, it is completely impossible for me to hear any vocoders or bootstomps without them doing either, right? And the rest of the clips show that I was looking for the pistol using the logs, and noclip to see if it phased through.

 

[MazuzaM]

Hello, it was not a threat.

Complaining in GM chat which is considered an OOC chat is prohibited by the rulebook thus I told you to cut it and deal with it on the forums like any other player.

 

[Curbalas]

Hello, it was not a threat.

Complaining in GM chat which is considered an OOC chat is prohibited by the rulebook thus I told you to cut it and deal with it on the forums like any other player.

This is something I can understand. Yet it felt like a threat coming out towards me due to the on-going potential PK for an unfair OOC reason. Due to it being a completely OOC problem, I had to talk it through the OOC chat.

 

[MazuzaM]

This is something I can understand. Yet it felt like a threat coming out towards me due to the on-going potential PK for an unfair OOC reason. Due to it being a completely OOC problem, I had to talk it through the OOC chat.

I didn’t even know it was related to what I was doing, I thought you were arguing about a diff situation

 

[nath1234567]

Hi! I was present OOCly for the situation as I teleported to Curbalas to help him look for the pistol that had vanished. It is not at all unreasonable for a member of CT to use their abilities to assist players or themselves with scripts that have become lost or stuck in the geometry of the map. If an important script like a firearm as is the case here is unable to be found and quickly physgunned out of whatever glitch spot it ended up in, then a member of staff will have to step in for a refund request.
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Curbalas clearly communicated in the GM channel that his pistol script had vanished, prompting myself to teleport to him to help, and ultima as seen in his own footage to noclip toward the scene. Curbalas was unaware of the impending danger headed his way in the form of the CP sweep. If he was aware, it is unlikely he would have been trying to give the character Nam a pistol at all.
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For the above reason, I think it is extremely disingenuous for Ultima to have accused him of trying to avoid the sweep using noclip. He was doing as any member of CT or staff would have done given the situation. I believe the accusation is indicitive of a P2W mentality on Ultimas behalf, given that he was overseeing the sweep from observer and that he holds a position of authority within the Civil Protection. Anyone could deduce that Curbalas was only in noclip to find the glitched/lost pistol script, unless they had some sort of motivation to see his character killed, which Ultima would have.
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Now onto the greater issue. Civil Protection swarmed the area that Curbalas was occupying while he was in observer searching for the script. This obviously put Curbalas in an awkward situation, as he was unable to properly react to the arrival of the Civil Protection sweep. Following their IC arrival, Ultima instructed Curbalas to exit noclip to resume RP. Curbulas understandably contested this by requesting that the Civil Protection be rewinded out of the room so that he is given proper time to react to their arrival. Given the OOC circumstances that Curbalas was tending to, I believe this to be a fair request.
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This is around the time when Ultima made his accusation that Curbalas was using noclip to avoid the sweep. Ultima also brought forward the point that it wouldn't matter if the rewind happened, Curbalas was still going to die to the sweep either way. If Ultima truly believed this, then I see no reason why he could not have compromised on Curbalas's request and ordered the Civil Protection to back out of the room.
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I would also like to contest the point that Curbalas would have died if he was given time to react by pointing out that one of the occupants of the room, Relja Terzic, played by @pite, had ICly noticed the sweep and warned the other refuges that they were coming down the hall. Pite was not wrapped up in OOCly looking for the lost script, and therefore was able to properly react to the arrival of the Civil Protection. Relja Terzic escaped by running down the ladder and into the outlands. I think it is reasonable to assume that Curbalas's character would have followed Relja and lived as he did if he was IC at the time. Now for the final issue..
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I was always under the impression that Willard Networks operated under a good faith mentality when it comes to PKs and massive punishments given to characters, and that this mentality would extend to IC situations that are heavily impacted by unfortunate OOC circumstances as seen here. It was completely unreasonable to expect Curbalas to exit noclip into an active, dangerous RP situation and be forced to die/be captured. Not only that, but having Curbalas exit from noclip into an active RP situation is immersion breaking for everyone involved. The sweep should have been rewinded out of the room to give Curbalas a fair opportunity to roleplay.
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Unban this mans character. Accept the fact that Ultima made a biased ruling in heavy favor of Civil Protection by making the poor judgement of trying to force him into certain death. There is a good chance that Curbalas's character would have died if given his rewind, but that doesn't matter since he wasn't given a fair chance. Very disappointing anti RP situation all around. I thought we were here to have fun and admins should maybe try and facilitate that in their rulings. :/

 

[Gutsy]

If this is the case and Curbalas was doing his duties as a GM then I would say that Ultima should of listened as a member of staff, Ultima has become more and more polarized against rebels as shown by his actions in Staff Chat recently so i'm not surprised that this has happened.

However if its not the case then -shrug-
But yeah, a GM making sure that they dropped rewards is not a refund.

 

[Stanford]

As someone who observed this from the sidelines and followed the discussion in the GM chat between the pair, it seemed in very bad faith towards Curbalas. The guy was doing his duties as a GM, looking for a pistol he dropped for another player which had somehow vanished through the map or into a prop (I'm still not sure where the weapon went). I wouldn't even call that "doing refunds".

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Curbalas was also told in GM chat that they were not the target of the sweep while in fact they were. They didn't know this since no crime timer was given to them, no notification, nothing. Ultima made no effort in informing Curbalas that they in fact were the target. Had they decided to disconnect they would've likely been in trouble with staff I imagine, but how would they have known if they weren't told... Either way, the fact he was told he wasn't the target of the sweep just seems to me that they were trying to bait them into a PK. (Posting screenshot since they were authorized for this thread it seems.)



Had Curbalas been given the chance to properly RP the engagement they may have died either way, such is true as the odds were greatly stacked against them. However, not providing them with the chance to rewind the scene to a point where the CPs were nearby and they could get IC makes it look like Ultima was actively trying to get Curbalas' character PKd through OOC measures.

 

[Curbalas]

As someone who observed this from the sidelines and followed the discussion in the GM chat between the pair, it seemed in very bad faith towards Curbalas. The guy was doing his duties as a GM, looking for a pistol he dropped for another player which had somehow vanished through the map or into a prop (I'm still not sure where the weapon went). I wouldn't even call that "doing refunds".

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Curbalas was also told in GM chat that they were not the target of the sweep while in fact they were. They didn't know this since no crime timer was given to them, no notification, nothing. Ultima made no effort in informing Curbalas that they in fact were the target. Had they decided to disconnect they would've likely been in trouble with staff I imagine, but how would they have known if they weren't told... Either way, the fact he was told he wasn't the target of the sweep just seems to me that they were trying to bait them into a PK. (Posting screenshot since they were authorized for this thread it seems.)

View attachment 36202

Had Curbalas been given the chance to properly RP the engagement they may have died either way, such is true as the odds were greatly stacked against them. However, not providing them with the chance to rewind the scene to a point where the CPs were nearby and they could get IC makes it look like Ultima was actively trying to get Curbalas' character PKd through OOC measures.

To add on to this, I believe RAD-X was told otherwise that the sweep was for me, and thus the CPs contradicting each other that the sweep is for me. It could be a case of deceit where other staff members were told that the sweep is for me, while I was outright being "baited" to get captured unfairly, once again.

 

[pite]

Just want to add a small comment since I was present.

Curbalas' character likely wouldn't of have died and made their escape, as I was playing on my character Relja Terzic and I heard the oncoming sweep and even called it out ICly to Nam-Sook Joo who was waiting on Curbalas while he was looking for the pistol in observer mode by saying "Sweep." and running off to check around the corner, witnessing the sweep and running away to Outlands.

 

[Tuki]

Just want to add a small comment since I was present.

Curbalas' character likely wouldn't of have died and made their escape, as I was playing on my character Relja Terzic and I heard the oncoming sweep and even called it out ICly to Nam-Sook Joo who was waiting on Curbalas while he was looking for the pistol in observer mode by saying "Sweep." and running off to check around the corner, witnessing the sweep and running away to Outlands.

I will also note that my vortigaunt (Sam or Yirh'Bii'Smail-Etanii) was in the nearby metabase. I had a radio on me and full communication with Curbalas' character if he ever Radio'd me or anyone. So once more. I doubt his character would have died when the CPs would get pincered from both sides. (From the anims i am able to see on Ultima's clip that have his ESP on, i think i see quite a few pistols, which adds onto Curbalas' survivability since he is not only one of the few people with OSITRs but has heavy armor and probably enough meds and ammo on him to take on the sweep alongside Relja and my character.)


Quick edit: @Stanford 's vort was also around, but at one point he went into observer i believe as he dissapeared (I would guess due to all of this going on). But he could have helped aswell if the whole situation didnt go the way it did and if it wasnt handled in such a bad way by Ultima and present staff members.

 

[Taliazure]

It appears this isn't the only time Ultima has shown a "PK hungry" mentality or a disregard for others characters in bad faith, which has come to heavily worry me given the fact they were PK manager and are a staff member. I have voiced my concerns before in a separate report, which now appears to be repeating itself in a different way wich comes to disappoint further.
Not only that but the action taken was a timeout from staff while being given the bot role to allow them to see all channels (another case)
https://willard.network/forums/threads/ultimas-bad-faith-report.11921/

And may we not forget the time when Ultima's behavior during a shootout with the Resistance on their OTA created significant concern and disappointment. Their urgency to @ for staff twice to execute the Vort, while also utilizing medkits and heals during combat in an open area, went unpunished. It appears that staff have it easy when it comes to rule-breaking and bad faith, receiving only a slap on the wrist, while the playerbase faces harsher consequences?



The council is aware of this, they have acknowledged the behavior and the constant incidents caused by this member. Yet it keeps being allowed to continued till enough becomes truly enough.

 

[Divine]

To add on to this, I believe RAD-X was told otherwise that the sweep was for me, and thus the CPs contradicting each other that the sweep is for me. It could be a case of deceit where other staff members were told that the sweep is for me, while I was outright being "baited" to get captured unfairly, once again.

View attachment 36203
View attachment 36204

Albertossic doesn’t know what he’s talking about, quite frankly. The sweep was for you, and the others who had been attending the Crystal activity. You lot had been firing constantly underground for ten minutes, and it attracted attention for every shot you fired. Big actions like that should expect a possibility of response, even if in the sewers. I have also disagreed with Ultima in the path, but you should not be going into observer or acting in any staff capacity (due to ESP and the likes) that short after a major event that consisted of you firing rifles for ten minutes so close to the sewers entrance. This was on you.

 

[Tuki]

Albertossic doesn’t know what he’s talking about, quite frankly. The sweep was for you, and the others who had been attending the Crystal activity. You lot had been firing constantly underground for ten minutes, and it attracted attention for every shot you fired. Big actions like that should expect a possibility of response, even if in the sewers. I have also disagreed with Ultima in the path, but you should not be going into observer or acting in any staff capacity (due to ESP and the likes) that short after a major event that consisted of you firing rifles for ten minutes so close to the sewers entrance. This was on you.

The point of the report is entirely missed in this paragraph you wrote. Its not really an issue that the sweep was for HIM, but the fact that ultima didnt even want to rewind back and the possibility of someone giving false information to Rad-x.

The entire sweep and Ultima's attitude on it was just scuffed overall and did more wrong than good. The issue here is them charbanning curbalas because they refused to take an unfair PK.

Why were they on observer? Dealing with a bug that happened then and there, he was not even aware nor given a crime timer by the GM with the crystal. Mind you that even after exploding and bombing things in other maps and other situations in the sewers, the sweeps dont happen 100% of the time.

 

[MazuzaM]

The issue here is them charbanning curbalas because they refused to take an unfair PK.

The cops didn't run when in a rebel zone so you wouldn't have heard them in the first place, my character specifically enacted a code of silence while we were there, in case of a rewind the whole surprise effect that we managed to achieve would've been ruined

 

[Tuki]

The cops didn't run when in a rebel zone so you wouldn't have heard them in the first place, my character specifically enacted a code of silence while we were there, in case of a rewind the whole surprise effect that we managed to achieve would've been ruined

Yet it is still unfair, they were dealing with a bug and the rewind would still allow for actual fair play for both sides.

Silence code or not, the fact curbalas' was just charbanned was bad. Because you would all have been pincered by two vorts and Pite's rebel and god knows who else. Which would have ended in you all not capturing nor PKing him

 

[Curbalas]

The cops didn't run when in a rebel zone so you wouldn't have heard them in the first place, my character specifically enacted a code of silence while we were there, in case of a rewind the whole surprise effect that we managed to achieve would've been ruined

This does not fix the point that I still would’ve responded aggressively, or escaped with Relja the moment of sweep. As pite said, he learned about the sweep ICly and told Nam that it was happening, if I wasn’t in observer looking for the pistol, I would’ve heard that and called the vortigaunts over the radio or escape the camp.

Thus I still support my claims of bad faith from ultima against me.

 

[z KillerMuffin]

I don't see this being in bad faith on Ultima's side, more than a lack of understanding and communication. However, I'll add onto the point that given the recent circumstances of you firing, you shouldn't have been in observer. I'll also add that I don't personally think, given the logs provided, that you were also acting in bad faith. I can see how at the time, it's easy to come to the conclusion that you were maliciously in observer, but obviously after reviewing it, just was a mistake on your part.

In my opinion, it should just boil down to a mistake with the same consequences applying. If the rewind happened, it would've given you the advantage with the ooc knowledge of CPs inbound. As a counter point, why should they be at a disadvantage to lose their characters because you made a mistake?

I know it sounds harsh, and rude, but it is what it is. Things like this happen, even when you don't have ill intentions. That's why when I was a mentor, if I needed something done like that and I was in a pretty hairy or weird situation, I always asked in mentor chat for another mentor or admin to come assist me so I don't even put myself in the situation of something like this happening. People are gonna tell you to just do it yourself, or make fun of you for asking another mentor to come help you with things, but what's better, having that, or a situation like this reoccurring? Regardless of the result for this thread, some food for thought for the future .

 

[Neonity]

Hey.

We’re looking into this, but would also appreciate if people would keep this thread on-topic and don’t bring up completely irrelevant information for the sake of adding fuel to the fire.

This report is about one thing, and therefore I do not care about the other. Thank you.