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Weapons Test, the true finale (10/02/2024)
- Thread starter Fedora
- Start date
Raptorian
The Furry
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2021
- Messages
- 162
!! CRITICAL CHANGES !!
- Remove Weapon Jamming (Its the mother of all bullshit RNG mechanics, and a jam is incredibly deadly when you're locked in CQC. The USP jamming is aids! Remove it!!)
- Dramatically increase armor penetration on weapons (or kill the system entirely lol) (Armor should only be reducing damage on any gun by -25% MAXIMUM. This is already a pretty excessive nerf on damage, going any further past -25% malus will make any fight feel awful. Especially when we consider OTA, who have much more armor compared to their enemies. This malus should be much smaller for larger calibers, with rifles almost fully piercing. Additionally, headshots should remove the malus entirely and keep the bonus damage they usually do, letting you strip armor faster with good aim.) [BONUS: Ammo is limited on Main. We had infinite ammo in the test. Forcing people to chew through hundreds of rounds in fights is not good.]
- Remove Weapon Jamming (Its the mother of all bullshit RNG mechanics, and a jam is incredibly deadly when you're locked in CQC. The USP jamming is aids! Remove it!!)
- Dramatically increase armor penetration on weapons (or kill the system entirely lol) (Armor should only be reducing damage on any gun by -25% MAXIMUM. This is already a pretty excessive nerf on damage, going any further past -25% malus will make any fight feel awful. Especially when we consider OTA, who have much more armor compared to their enemies. This malus should be much smaller for larger calibers, with rifles almost fully piercing. Additionally, headshots should remove the malus entirely and keep the bonus damage they usually do, letting you strip armor faster with good aim.) [BONUS: Ammo is limited on Main. We had infinite ammo in the test. Forcing people to chew through hundreds of rounds in fights is not good.]
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2021
- Messages
- 190
Ello dunno tried out things for the first time today for like 30 mins and i can say after more then a decade Counter Strike and even playing semi-pro
More recoil should be balanced with more damage, even if some other weapons are burst like the m16. Recoil is kind of getting reduced and the RPM of m16 is too op for the recoil. Would never use any other AR
Shotguns are really weird, neither they do damage to armor and act as shredder or damage to the body. It cant have low RPM and not high numbers on one of those.
Bastard SMG seems fine, rewards you for hitting all the shots close range and is useless on range, with good RPM
all in all
AWP is basically the weapon to use RPM faster then the shotgun and damage more then a rocket x^)
(edit)
This is what i would do (Different type of weapons should have characteristics and strengths/weakness) but over all this should be right
Pistols should be about the damage of an AR, with more recoil be unstable, so it would reward shots that get hit (more mag = less dmg)
SMGs good in close range, with 80% of AR dmg, range 30%of AR dmg.
ARs Should be the metric used to determine other weapons damage, since its the middle field of everything. Be aware of recoil/damage rewarding
OTA weapons should do 120% of the AR damage
Shotguns either need to shred armor or do extra flesh dmg (dunno how to programm that)
Snipers need WAY less RPM and Magazine. Damage cant be excused otherwise. Calculate how much DMG you would do in 1 or 1.5 seconds with ARs and give that dmg to it. WITH LOW RPM, it is an situational weapon. If it hits main server i would literally go close range with it without problems. Straving is really easy in Source, espessialy with 50 speed leveled.
Everything not stated i didnt try <3
I dont get the armor system so maybe my opinion is invalid
More recoil should be balanced with more damage, even if some other weapons are burst like the m16. Recoil is kind of getting reduced and the RPM of m16 is too op for the recoil. Would never use any other AR
Shotguns are really weird, neither they do damage to armor and act as shredder or damage to the body. It cant have low RPM and not high numbers on one of those.
Bastard SMG seems fine, rewards you for hitting all the shots close range and is useless on range, with good RPM
all in all
AWP is basically the weapon to use RPM faster then the shotgun and damage more then a rocket x^)
(edit)
This is what i would do (Different type of weapons should have characteristics and strengths/weakness) but over all this should be right
Pistols should be about the damage of an AR, with more recoil be unstable, so it would reward shots that get hit (more mag = less dmg)
SMGs good in close range, with 80% of AR dmg, range 30%of AR dmg.
ARs Should be the metric used to determine other weapons damage, since its the middle field of everything. Be aware of recoil/damage rewarding
OTA weapons should do 120% of the AR damage
Shotguns either need to shred armor or do extra flesh dmg (dunno how to programm that)
Snipers need WAY less RPM and Magazine. Damage cant be excused otherwise. Calculate how much DMG you would do in 1 or 1.5 seconds with ARs and give that dmg to it. WITH LOW RPM, it is an situational weapon. If it hits main server i would literally go close range with it without problems. Straving is really easy in Source, espessialy with 50 speed leveled.
Everything not stated i didnt try <3
I dont get the armor system so maybe my opinion is invalid
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- Joined
- Mar 26, 2023
- Messages
- 324
Do i need to write anything? All the guns are fucking shit. Get rid of limb shots because it goes from having one nerf to having three different ways you get nerfed mid s2k combat : Armour (reduced by 50%), hitboxes (Gl hitting your shots) and limb shots (another 50% of your other 50% dmg).
I dont think this will be the final tests because yall have somehow fucked up ALL THE GUNS.
Like im not gonna write anything else when the standard pulse rifle does 22 damage with 70% pen and the best weapon (the g3a3) does 8 or 4.2 dmg. All im saying is we have expos next week and we will be combating OTA with guns doing 5 damage with the mp5s. That legit means we will need over 30+ rounds to kill one containment unit.
best advice for right now is get rid of limb shot, dont make this into willard from 1 year ago where everyone has "high armour" and requires 30000 bullets to kill one guy.
because rn the current strat is beg that you hit a crit shot because for some reason that does more than a headshot for some shitty reason.
I dont think this will be the final tests because yall have somehow fucked up ALL THE GUNS.
Like im not gonna write anything else when the standard pulse rifle does 22 damage with 70% pen and the best weapon (the g3a3) does 8 or 4.2 dmg. All im saying is we have expos next week and we will be combating OTA with guns doing 5 damage with the mp5s. That legit means we will need over 30+ rounds to kill one containment unit.
best advice for right now is get rid of limb shot, dont make this into willard from 1 year ago where everyone has "high armour" and requires 30000 bullets to kill one guy.
because rn the current strat is beg that you hit a crit shot because for some reason that does more than a headshot for some shitty reason.
TRL
Radio Bob Approved
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2022
- Messages
- 133
armor penetration makes killing people a numbers game TBH. How many guys do you have shooting at one person compared to the other team. Reducing armor penetration could work but I also noticed criticals didnt discriminate between the head and arm (same crit dmg)
Jamming was annoying. Seemed to only happen to pistols.
Rebels actually grind for their ammo, so the amount needed to take a CP down would cost a fair bit of money. OTA a small fortune. Bullets are bullets are bullets, but it feels like everyones a bit spongey with armor. And without armor? holy mother of pearl, ur just getting assfucked with anything. Maybe allow citizens to take a few more shots before they get curbed.
Jamming was annoying. Seemed to only happen to pistols.
Rebels actually grind for their ammo, so the amount needed to take a CP down would cost a fair bit of money. OTA a small fortune. Bullets are bullets are bullets, but it feels like everyones a bit spongey with armor. And without armor? holy mother of pearl, ur just getting assfucked with anything. Maybe allow citizens to take a few more shots before they get curbed.
Tengu
Radio Bob Approved
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2021
- Messages
- 229
USP seems to jam 100x more than any weapon.. throughout all the S2K testing, the only weapon that's jammed for me is the USP.. Not mp7, not shotguns.. just it.
Also because @ultima told me to, please alter the way the future auto /me works.. The fact three or four messages appear (per person) when a firefight starts is kinda annoying and spams chat. Yes you can turn it off visually from the client so you don't see it, its still there for everyone else which means thats technically the only warning of impending doom.
Other than that, not a lot of complains besides balance weapons, nerf that, buff this.. blah blah, most everything said here is kinda accurate
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2021
- Messages
- 1,254
What if we could have a cleaning/maintained system where your weapons wear down and at a certain point stop being reliable and you need to get new parts/clean them? and it increases the condition?
Rebels/BMDs for example could sell shitty condition weapons and it could be a task for people to pay less for a garbage condition weapon but the trade off is you're paying to fix it more/sinking cash into upgrades and what not and risk jams.
Combine Players: Could either be issued or have access to cleaning kits/parts via their requisition or something maybe as a CP if your weapon gets too degraded you hand it off to a RL or just get a new one and the old one is icly destroyed/recycled?
Perhaps have a way for weapon condition to be set from Pristine / fresh out the vendor to like a ww2 relic uncovered from the dirt via percentages and have its effectiveness and jamming represent that.
that being said if Guns are jamming straight out the gate that is kinda ass.
Rebels/BMDs for example could sell shitty condition weapons and it could be a task for people to pay less for a garbage condition weapon but the trade off is you're paying to fix it more/sinking cash into upgrades and what not and risk jams.
Combine Players: Could either be issued or have access to cleaning kits/parts via their requisition or something maybe as a CP if your weapon gets too degraded you hand it off to a RL or just get a new one and the old one is icly destroyed/recycled?
Perhaps have a way for weapon condition to be set from Pristine / fresh out the vendor to like a ww2 relic uncovered from the dirt via percentages and have its effectiveness and jamming represent that.
that being said if Guns are jamming straight out the gate that is kinda ass.
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- Joined
- Jun 5, 2023
- Messages
- 408
Yeah my favorite part of red dead is constantly having to buy gun cleaning oil so that i can still shoot people.
You must not play a rebel character, because this is the last thing anyone would want especially after the nerf to everyone's eco.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2021
- Messages
- 1,254
You're not playing an 1900's cowboy shooter though.
You're playing a guerilla figther who has to scrounge for their gear under the boot of an authoritarian multi-dimensional alien regime?
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2023
- Messages
- 408
It's the same mechanic. I hated it in fallout 3 / NV. It's so pointless. They already had to retcon the fatigue system, and this limb / AP system is most likely next on the block to be chopped. But yes, let's code and impliment a system that hurts both factions because it's so thematic......woah...im like rick grimes caring for my 357....
Garold
Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2023
- Messages
- 18
so how is this different from the old weapon system aside from a new weapon pack? same weapon base and everything. i think the best thing this update can do is remove the magazine system.
jamming is an unwanted feature the guns already feel janky sometimes, my uzi on the main server sometimes doesn't want to shoot, or has a delay before it starts shooting. No idea if this is a jam with no animation or some other crazy bug. also sometimes decides it never wants to shoot in full auto even after toggling thru fire modes. Nobody likes RNG 'surprise mechanics'. Not even Tarkov does jamming this way, it's only if you dump several mags consecutively or pick up an absolutely terrible gun.
TTK should be fair I ain't S2K'ing for the Ready or Not experience, nor do I ever want to have to land several magazines on a single target like I'm playing the Division. There's no reason to complicate source engine combat.
I don't know about an AP system, seems to defeat the point of armor. The only difference this should make is a bonus damage to armor and not health.
jamming is an unwanted feature the guns already feel janky sometimes, my uzi on the main server sometimes doesn't want to shoot, or has a delay before it starts shooting. No idea if this is a jam with no animation or some other crazy bug. also sometimes decides it never wants to shoot in full auto even after toggling thru fire modes. Nobody likes RNG 'surprise mechanics'. Not even Tarkov does jamming this way, it's only if you dump several mags consecutively or pick up an absolutely terrible gun.
TTK should be fair I ain't S2K'ing for the Ready or Not experience, nor do I ever want to have to land several magazines on a single target like I'm playing the Division. There's no reason to complicate source engine combat.
I don't know about an AP system, seems to defeat the point of armor. The only difference this should make is a bonus damage to armor and not health.
Eviction Notice
Radio Bob Approved
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2021
- Messages
- 261
The M16A2 sights are misaligned you aim down the actual stock, also the reload animations are bugged (on M16A2 not in general lol)
M3ntal
Radio Bob Approved
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2022
- Messages
- 642
Realism mechanics don't automatically make things better.
The fundamentals make sense but this seems like wasted resources for a smidge more realism and a heap more tedium.
I get what you were going for, but if your idea that this is going to generate more rp - it won't. People won't RP repairing or maintaining their guns, they'll just use the required script to make their guns fulfil their only purpose again.
Overall, neat idea but one that is ultimately more harmful than beneficial.
Edit: leaving your fate in a fight depend on RNG primarily is god damn obtuse
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- Joined
- Sep 24, 2021
- Messages
- 1,254
Reject Nato guns embrace the reliability and commonality of comblock weapons.
Less jam more bang.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2019
- Messages
- 2,056
There probably won't be another weapons test given we have most of the data we need. The only other changes we are making is as follows:
- Shotgun damage slightly increased for all
- Increased AP on some guns so they don't feel so crap against armour (Excluding Junk weaponry as that is designed to be shit, don't use junk against kevlar)
- Pistol damage increased across the board, AP upped by 5%
- AR AP increased by 10-15%
- Mini14 AP upped by 20%
- SMGs also changed their values lightly.
- Limb damage fixed for arms and legs to do more, crit chance will also be increased slightly for Level 50 gun users.
The way this weapon update works is that never should you kill someone in less than 1 second less they are without kevlar or you are using a powerful enough weapon in order to do so. Armour is now useful as the old system armour was about as useless as it could be with it only reducing how much damage you could take to your HP, we wanted to make Armour feel more useful in combat by making it so Armor does actually soak up some bullets before finally being penetrated.
Average TTK for most weapons sits around 1.2-2.5 seconds depending on the gun and kevlar. Based on measurements 50 Armor generally sits in the 1.1-1.6 TTK range, 75 sits in the 1.3-1.85 TTK range. While OTA sits at around 1.9-2.8+ TTK range. But OTA you shouldn't really be fighting without the best gear you can possibly get your hands on and won't see them unless you cause a big enough shitstorm. CPs are the main foe we are balancing gameplay for.
Of course, we want to make sure most fights actually feel like fights rather than someone shooting you and you being out of the fight before or the moment it started which is quite zzzz in being honest. While not realistic, nor following CSGO/COD gameplay, we are a RP server which needs to be fair on all sides in the end where ones life or progress can't be backtracked or reversed so suddenly, following a more GTA approach to bullets and gunfights.
Not everyone will be on the same page with the changes are some may like it, others hate some may just want to see how it plays out- but overall hard to find a middle ground in what is first and foremost an RP server, aiming to make gameplay fun rather than being flatlined in less than second. Which MAY be bad for assassinations at first, but with the upcoming medical system and other changes, won't be as bad.
- Shotgun damage slightly increased for all
- Increased AP on some guns so they don't feel so crap against armour (Excluding Junk weaponry as that is designed to be shit, don't use junk against kevlar)
- Pistol damage increased across the board, AP upped by 5%
- AR AP increased by 10-15%
- Mini14 AP upped by 20%
- SMGs also changed their values lightly.
- Limb damage fixed for arms and legs to do more, crit chance will also be increased slightly for Level 50 gun users.
The way this weapon update works is that never should you kill someone in less than 1 second less they are without kevlar or you are using a powerful enough weapon in order to do so. Armour is now useful as the old system armour was about as useless as it could be with it only reducing how much damage you could take to your HP, we wanted to make Armour feel more useful in combat by making it so Armor does actually soak up some bullets before finally being penetrated.
Average TTK for most weapons sits around 1.2-2.5 seconds depending on the gun and kevlar. Based on measurements 50 Armor generally sits in the 1.1-1.6 TTK range, 75 sits in the 1.3-1.85 TTK range. While OTA sits at around 1.9-2.8+ TTK range. But OTA you shouldn't really be fighting without the best gear you can possibly get your hands on and won't see them unless you cause a big enough shitstorm. CPs are the main foe we are balancing gameplay for.
Of course, we want to make sure most fights actually feel like fights rather than someone shooting you and you being out of the fight before or the moment it started which is quite zzzz in being honest. While not realistic, nor following CSGO/COD gameplay, we are a RP server which needs to be fair on all sides in the end where ones life or progress can't be backtracked or reversed so suddenly, following a more GTA approach to bullets and gunfights.
Not everyone will be on the same page with the changes are some may like it, others hate some may just want to see how it plays out- but overall hard to find a middle ground in what is first and foremost an RP server, aiming to make gameplay fun rather than being flatlined in less than second. Which MAY be bad for assassinations at first, but with the upcoming medical system and other changes, won't be as bad.