Why i stopped playing CWU and CMU

[Coroneljones]

I am also concerned about the person behind the CWU director using troll emote reactions on this thread like he does over in the CWU channel instead of facing issues!

And Since I`ve been called out, time to actually reply, focusing on the CWU points.

The CWU was decent under Cadance Wattmuff, as an example. She truly seemed to care, because she involved herself with organising events, giving out tasks and spending time roleplaying with the plain worker staff as well as the management instead of controlling the faction through managers over discord and being a grumpy, unapproachable office shut-in (when online) IC. This may make sense RP wise but it is in no way good for the faction as a whole and has a significant, negative effect on the whole server.

This is the first faction newcomers come to and at the moment it has no charm, excitement or sense of progression. It is more stagnant than ever and frankly I see no reason why anyone would care to RP in that environment. I understand this is supposed to be a dystopia, but this is not just an IC issue, being deprived in every way as a player makes the server disappointing and not worth playing.

To start off, this critique is all subjective opinions for the most part, based off of your experience.

instead of controlling the faction through managers over discord

I cant be around all the time, and I dont want to "hog the spotlight", so to speak, for CWU management work, so its distributed to other players, the managers and their assistants, to give them some work and their own chance to interact with worker players when it involves actual work. If they didnt handle management work for the Director, when it made sense, why would they exist as a position?

being a grumpy, unapproachable office shut-in (when online) IC

IC issue. The character behaves in an appropriate manner considering past events, and I frequently do have him watch workshifts out in public and talk to people that actually interact with them.
When I do AFK in the office its due to the fact I am working on something OOC or IRL, more than likely.

This is the first faction newcomers come to and at the moment it has no charm, excitement or sense of progression.

The CWU is, and will always be pending any sort of rework, the "Player GM for Citizen-focused events" faction first and foremost.
Thats its inherited focus, for players to sign up to give others something interesting to do.
If a CWU-focused event comes up, thats neat and its a good break from the monotony, if its not a frustrating event that has our players complain about it regularly, but otherwise, the focus and what can be done regularly is somewhat limited.

Progression for the most part, is limited to "small" promotions, to the point where we had to work to make a brand new department available for people to work for the management positions in it. Sadly, nobody cared or wanted it, so it remained empty until we had to move someone in, from another management position, as an IC punishment.

Otherwise, progression is, regularly, less "congratulations, you are promoted to X position" and more "John over there has been doing some good work, write it down for future reference for when we need someone competent to handle X important thing".

To end this post, I`ll focus on the "no events organized because the faction lead doesnt care" part.
CWU management-led events, for all CWU members, are being worked on, we have an entire list of optional training events, its just an issue of people being available to run them on specific days or times.
A lot of what you say doesnt happen, does happen in the management channels, where things are planned out and discussed regularly before its decided when they are pushed out, and if they are at all.

 

[Rabithunter]

Im going to say hello! I am currently the CMU director ICly and OOCly. I feel your pain in the respects of the faction being boring and I'm trying all sorts to bring more interest and intrigue into the faction. Its definitely not easy to maintain a good level of players, given how people can get bored very quickly, when confronted with the same mundane injuries on a daily basis. In the future, I plan on bringing events and other such interesting things that move away from the daily life of a clinic, to keep interests high. This will be a long haul however, as I have a good team of people working along side me, IC and OOCly, who will make sure my every step is scrutinized and evaluated XD

And rightly so too, as myself, RedHot and Sif (Lucy Russell), all have an invested interest in the faction. Cheers for making this a talking point too, as the more people I see making their opinions known about this, the easier I will find it to make changes that are clearly needed for an improved sustainability.

 

[Craw]

No

 

[TheGoodHunter]

Im going to say hello! I am currently the CMU director ICly and OOCly. I feel your pain in the respects of the faction being boring and I'm trying all sorts to bring more interest and intrigue into the faction. Its definitely not easy to maintain a good level of players, given how people can get bored very quickly, when confronted with the same mundane injuries on a daily basis. In the future, I plan on bringing events and other such interesting things that move away from the daily life of a clinic, to keep interests high. This will be a long haul however, as I have a good team of people working along side me, IC and OOCly, who will make sure my every step is scrutinized and evaluated XD

And rightly so too, as myself, RedHot and Sif (Lucy Russell), all have an invested interest in the faction. Cheers for making this a talking point too, as the more people I see making their opinions known about this, the easier I will find it to make changes that are clearly needed for an improved sustainability.

accept my cmu app already

 

[SifTheAI]

After playing the server for a little over a year

Nice playtime recently. I can already tell this is going to be a fun post.

When it comes to CMU, I should not have had to write a petition for the CA about a 'young adult with plushies and guitar on back with bruises' desc. nurse with 2 week experience in the CMU and no degree somehow taking over as the new director, no better from the one before who barely spoke English. Vital decisions like this which have a strong impact on the whole server should not be made freely by one person. I believe it should be monitored closely IC and OOC for the benefit of the server.

Although there's also that the CMU has had a deeper rot, for a long time in regards to server staff leaving the roleplay entirely in the hands of the players with nothing to work with. The staff could instead stop ignoring the issue and (ideally) work together with lead to come up with creative ways and tools for the players to use in order to enhance the faction and make it worth playing. I myself approached redhotginger IC and OOC who was a CMU director before staying on as a long-term dean of medicine. I brought these issues to her attention and she seemed indifferent OOC and IC stated it doesn't matter who the director is. I don't think this is the attitude we need from a faction lead or a second-in-charge.

From experience I know that tensions between just these two factions have been strong, from the previous CWU director signing my petition to have the CMU director thrown out as well as due to new experiences. Ideally the factions should work closely together, participate in meetings and express their issues, then work together (and with server staff if required) in order to solve them. If they could ever admit there are issues that is.

This is going to seem a little... Rude.

As much as I value opinions, I also value up-to-date opinions. Everything above, including that chart of your playtime, shows that whilst you may have been around before, you certainly have not been around recently, at least not on that account.

You're writing a post about why CWU and CMU suck, from a perspective that is not up to date with the present. I cannot speak for the CWU side of things, I'm not a part of them other than GMing some of their roleplay as well as acting as inter-communications between CMU and CWU (of which, they seem to get good RP from, particularly when we give them production shift opportunities for medical equipment replenishment), but for the CMU, quite literally everything that you've said is out of date.

You start by writing about a petition to the CA about particular nurses with their descriptions, and certain individuals becoming Director. This was at least half a year ago.
You write that CMU has a deep rot because server staff leave roleplay in the hands of players with nothing to work with. Again, a perspective that is definitely not up to date, considering two staff members are in the CMU, as well as a few Creative Team members, which work hard to give CMU (and everyone else) things to do.
Part of what you write is that you approached Redhot about issues when she was IC and OOCly the Director. This had to have been before I even joined the server, considering she was Dean when I joined.
In that last paragraph, you write that the two factions should work closely together, and have meetings. We do. CMU Administration and CWU Management and Directorate all work relatively close together, in most cases due to relating tasking (CMU needing a body sterilised, CWU having a workshift accident), but I've personally sat in on meetings where we've worked together.

If you are going to write a post about why CWU and CMU suck, you would be much more helped by either somehow acquiring up-to-date information instead of using outdated information from 6+ months ago. I can't speak directly for the CWU side, but for the CMU side, whilst I understand the sentiment of your post, it's not up to date at all.

 

[TheGoodHunter]

Nice playtime recently. I can already tell this is going to be a fun post.
View attachment 14530



This is going to seem a little... Rude.

As much as I value opinions, I also value up-to-date opinions. Everything above, including that chart of your playtime, shows that whilst you may have been around before, you certainly have not been around recently, at least not on that account.

You're writing a post about why CWU and CMU suck, from a perspective that is not up to date with the present. I cannot speak for the CWU side of things, I'm not a part of them other than GMing some of their roleplay as well as acting as inter-communications between CMU and CWU (of which, they seem to get good RP from, particularly when we give them production shift opportunities for medical equipment replenishment), but for the CMU, quite literally everything that you've said is out of date.

You start by writing about a petition to the CA about particular nurses with their descriptions, and certain individuals becoming Director. This was at least half a year ago.
You write that CMU has a deep rot because server staff leave roleplay in the hands of players with nothing to work with. Again, a perspective that is definitely not up to date, considering two staff members are in the CMU, as well as a few Creative Team members, which work hard to give CMU (and everyone else) things to do.
Part of what you write is that you approached Redhot about issues when she was IC and OOCly the Director. This had to have been before I even joined the server, considering she was Dean when I joined.
In that last paragraph, you write that the two factions should work closely together, and have meetings. We do. CMU Administration and CWU Management and Directorate all work relatively close together, in most cases due to relating tasking (CMU needing a body sterilised, CWU having a workshift accident), but I've personally sat in on meetings where we've worked together.

If you are going to write a post about why CWU and CMU suck, you would be much more helped by either somehow acquiring up-to-date information instead of using outdated information from 6+ months ago. I can't speak directly for the CWU side, but for the CMU side, whilst I understand the sentiment of your post, it's not up to date at all.

too long. didn’t read. opinion invalid

 

[vilhjalmrf]

too long. didn’t read. opinion invalid

Thanks for the input. We regret to inform you that your app has been denied.

accept my cmu app already

 

[TheGoodHunter]

Thanks for the input. We regret to inform you that your app has been denied.

too short. didn’t read.

 

[Vulpes Callida]

Following the excellent points of my buddy wendymit,

The problem aren't the factions or the mechanics within. The problem are the people. I've been over this in a multitude of threads.

RN, it feels like the majority of the playerbase, of these factions included, needs to be spoonfed content by someone else willing to put in the effort while they put in none in return. It's kind of droning.

CMU and CWU are professions. To me, they're still very much in the 'citizen' faction (despite whitelist); as such, they oughta roleplay not too far from that, the to-dos are just extra added spice. And the problem with 90% of the 'pure' citizen players is they just wander around aimlessly and don't really engage in anything beyond saying hi and bye or the eventual conversation. They also reach a particular status and stop 'risking it'; sometimes, out of attachment, they don't really 'risk' much (i.e. standing up to a CP, trying to smuggle something, or coming up with stuff). CWU and CMU suffer from the fact there is also an 'internal' progression to them, while there shouldn't be, to attract players. Like, you are telling me 'intern', 'nurse' and 'doctor' are hierarchical, in that order? I know why it's done like that, but it doesn't really make 'sense'. But people want to be the 'best'; very few stick with just being 'nurses' (Anne Rayen, super good!) or 'administratives' (Lucy Russel, super good!), instead just wish for hoarding the most 'power' availible (two weeks into faction but suddenly specialised in sixteen different surgical professions).

AFAIK, the CWU has something similar with the seniority system, with permissions and so on, but it's less 'obtuse', since the roles at play aren't really uhh, that different, and you can feel it is a step of progression. But their workshifts are boring as shite, and don't really reward RP as much as they should, in my opinion.

Then again, it is also true the CT don't really do much for them. But it is not the sole reason this passivity comes into play. Bla bla, you could make a point about the CCA not answering letters or not providing enough game, and it is true, the CWU have been relatively lazy the last month or two (the CMU have actually been quite there, but their to-dos diminished after the anti-civs holed up in the slums and never left so CPs stopped getting injured to any degree, save for the eventual event).

But at the end of the day, the problem is people are uninspired and chase being entertained over entertaining others. I am highly against this Alaska event (personal reasons), but maybe it'll bring the people a little more inspiration and change to escape the status quo, which I fully believe is the intent. Because honest to God, some of you I feel are incapable of developing your characters unless someone does it for you; or, you run out of development thread too quick because it was made and done too early (or the char has just been around for too long) and then don't really follow any particular directions with your characters - just, existing aimlessly for an indefinite amount of time. I have been in here for some months, and there were some characters that were there before I made mine, that haven't changed one bit since then.

(speaking mostly about 'pure' citizens and loyalists, not 'rogues' or 'sneaky' people in the CWU or CMU)

Hell, most of the CWU ends up using it as a stepping stone for other factions, such as the CP, because there really isn't... Much, to do. But there shouldn't be at all. If a char joins the CWU, it is to play the part, y'know? Because their development circles around that. Maybe this is way too confusing a viewpoint but players are ultimately just hungry for progression instead of roleplay.

 

[fritz]

As much as I value opinions, I also value up-to-date opinions.

I am glad to hear that some things have changed on the side of CMU, which can be expected after finally having a decent (admin) director in place. Let us not ignore the past. I shared the bs i personally had to deal with which was unacceptable and used it to enforce my point that faction leads should be under more strict control and supervision IC by the CA and OOC by server staff. Even though my experience may be dated my point still stands, these problems should be noted so they don't happen in the future.

When i refer to factions working closely together, i don't mean handing over a body for cremation. I mean meetings happening IC and OOC so in-depth events can be organised amongst other things instead of being isolated which is no good for the server.

I dont want to "hog the spotlight"

IC issue. The character behaves in an appropriate manner considering past events

I already explained in my original post how being a distant, antisocial, unengaging director is not just an IC issue, it is an OOC issue because it negatively affects the entire faction from an OOC perspective. An engaging director who takes the time to involve themselves with the workers boosts morale, inspires and adds to quality of roleplay for the workers amongst other things. You do not provide that IC nor do you promote a vice-director to do it for you.

I believe, from my experience that a faction director is not just about the OOC aspect.

Your managers may manage the day to day as part of their job, but they do not provide the things i mentioned. I explained this in my original post. How a faction lead engages with their faction has an OOC impact which matters.

"John over there has been doing some good work, write it down for future reference for when we need someone

While i can appreciate the idea in a dystopia setting, players need a sense of progression. The idea is for your character to climb the social ladder and strive for better things. This has been painfully stagnant in the CWU ever since you became director.

Sadly, nobody cared or wanted it, so it remained empty

More so that neither you nor your management cared to promote anyone to manage or supervise the department except as a punishment. You insisted on using management from other departments to take care of it but they didn't give a shit. Not that you would know because you weren't interacting with nearly enough of your staff IC.

It circles back around to faction leads making decisions that don't benefit their faction IC or OOC and server staff and CCA not giving a shit. This stuff impacts the server.

 

[fritz]

players are ultimately just hungry for progression instead of roleplay.

This is a fact, people will usually strive for progression in a game, it is only natural. Faction leads should keep that in mind and not keep their playerbase stagnant, or stifle progression.

 

[Vulpes Callida]

This is a fact, people will usually strive for progression in a game, it is only natural. Faction leads should keep that in mind and not keep their playerbase stagnant, or stifle progression.

I am not saying omit progression, I am saying don't make it the only accountable factor. The RP quality of many needs much more work than the current faction systems we have.