Willard is unrewarding.

[ItsLiam]

Nothing on Willard is rewarding and "Player led events" aren't well rewarded enough. This goes for both Loyalists, Rebels, as well as CPs and Citizens and Vorts and everyone really.

For example; back in D43, me and a group blew up D43 thumpers which caused half of C24 to be decimated, The Combine having to hide in the Metro tunnel with Rebels etc. And we NEVER got anything rewarded for it or got anything out of it.

Sure, we got into the Metro Arc (WHICH GOT CUT SHORT FOR SOME REASON). But we have a really cool BMD group named "Wardens" who specialize in bombings, chaos, murdering the Combine. And guess what "Rep" or "Commendations" or "Compensation" we got out of it? NOTHING.

Recently, the Krah'Aur'Nur plus some other groups, including the group I'm in, did a whole operation to bring down some overseer tower in the Outlands. Sure, we are getting rewarded for it, but so far we have almost gotten nothing, and we are getting told we have to wait and be patient, wait and be patient, wait and be patient... I know people can be busy, this isn't a job, yada yada. But, it's still incredibly frustrating to see us not get rewarded for these things.

These things are extremely demotivating because every time we do something, we either don't get rewarded at all, or we have to wait an eternity to get our rewards. I know people are going to be like "Erm... But... You do not need the rewards to Rebel RP!!!" and to that I have to say; You're wrong. It's been proven time and time again that Willard and the RebelRP section of it is centered around scripts, getting better equipment, fighting the combine, etc. You can't do any "Passive" Rebellion since there just isn't anything to do with it.

I suggest we either encourage and motivate players to do "Player led events" by giving them the right reward, awarding them for their deeds, and not doing it 10% a month.

 

[ultima]

WTF

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

tl;dr?

 

[ItsLiam]

Updated because it looked like a shitpost before and I'm srs about this.

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

tl;dr?

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

tl;dr?

 

[ItsLiam]

TLDR is you're a retard

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

TLDR is you're a retard

Spoiler: TLDR

retard

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

tl;dr?

 

[Hayden]

To give a serious response - rewards can be difficult to gauge, and usually are less than what might be expected. I might be wrong here and speaking with out of date information, but usually player led events have less of a risk because GMs don't wanna punish players for taking the initiative, whereas with GM led events they can be more free with threats because it's entirely a 'sign up' kinda deal where the risk is explicitly mentioned.

Also back when I still staffed rewards were a touchy subject because too much of a reward would cause outcry due to balancing reasons (Good ol' 250 chips for putting up anti-combine posters kinda deal), so it wouldn't surprise me if GMs are just hesitant to provide a reward because they don't wanna draw the ire of the balance team, or risk annoying players by providing too small a reward.

Entirely possible that the GM who lead the player led event is just trying to negotiate a reward with the balance team, which can sometimes take awhile if BT has a lot on their plate already.

 

[Donavin Jones]

so it wouldn't surprise me if GMs are just hesitant to provide a reward because they don't wanna draw the ire of the balance team, or risk annoying players by providing too small a reward.

Entirely possible that the GM who lead the player led event is just trying to negotiate a reward with the balance team, which can sometimes take awhile if BT has a lot on their plate already.

Simply make everything have some form of negative to it, or encourage the opposite side to counter-act if its against them.
Here is some examples I'd do.

1 - If the rebels commence an operation that isn't against the combine (I-E, raiding a bandit camp or setting up a settlement) yeah, make it have a reward but also a negative. Bandits get more pissed and become more active, or if you set up a settlement they target you more. Or both if they happen.

2 - If an operation commences on the combine from the rebel side, make it where the combine are more strict on the people. And other areas the combine own become more heavily guarded. Yes, the rebels gain more equipment and a victory on combine infrastructure, but as a result the combine have become more fortified and doing such will be more difficult. But with new equipment IF you succeed, it'll be worth it to try again.

3 - Don't use scripts as rewards. But rather, reputation (like nagi said)

I know its goofy as fuck I'm using a barotrauma image, but it fits.
Just cause the rebels/combine do something, doesn't mean it has to end in a reward for scripts. Make reputation mean something. If you help the wardens, they'll help you and give you deals on items you'll buy. But if you don't, they won't help you and may bring up the price on items, or outright attack you.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Could frame this into some sorted post, but...I suppose I'll settle on a semi-pointed rant.

Really, I think the post just highlights the issue that narrative and story is, at best, third place behind scripts and victory. You didn't get rewarded for the antlion arc? Despite the fact that arc is by far the single most impactful narrative event to have ever occurred, which was a result of in-game actions (Barring some mistakes here and there) That arc alone led to the metro, which led to the West of C24 which now led to I24...all of that stemmed from the Antlion arc alone. So the idea that 'nothing came of it' seems insane to me. Sure, you didn't get handed down scripts or anything - but why on Earth would that matter in comparison to the above?

Rewards are just scripts - and that's the issue. It all comes down to this shit ass grind that frankly makes me look at the server less and less favorably each week. Whenever I notice fights going on as a civ, if I happen to be around, the first thing on my mind is logging off to prevent getting caught in some dreary curfew - of which is a result of gunfight #2433 that led to absolutely nothing.

This is a practical issue of Willard taking the quantity over quality approach. That its better to have eight shootouts in a week that lead to literally nothing and are just bouts of lackluster CvR between factions that don't even fight for the story of it anymore, but rather the ability to remark on how shit the other is OOC. Not that I am sure the playerbase would tolerate anything else, given as to lower the frequency, the materials handed out would be lessened too. Not a likely occurrence.

I'll also drop a hot take that from my experience, handing out rewards was the worst part of anything remotely related to rebels cause no matter what you do, someone is waiting to pounce you. Give too much, Balance team tackles you to the ground and berates you. Give too little and players are liable to just shoot your character out of OOC spite in order to make off with what they deem worthy.

You ask me, the CvR portion of the server is simply broken, almost beyond repair. It genuinely feels like some kind of mass overhaul would benefit it, cause as of now, (to me) it comes off as little more than a detracting bout of spiteful mudslinging with no aim or purpose beyond getting some infinitely moving 'Win.' The playerbase carries a portion of blame for the servers current state, much as I doubt anybody wants to hear that.

Perhaps a side rant yet related enough, back when it was being ran (Both Antlion and Metro Arcs) people hated them. It was to such an extent the discussion of killing even the Antlion arc early was seriously considered. As the primary lead of both, it was an endless deluge of bitter complaining from a multitude of different fronts. (Including one of my favorites "there is too much to do.") All the while balance, narrative, progression and player initiative had to be honored and tracked. The opinion of the antlion arc seems to have softened since, with metro arc seeing a bit of that as well...but...

Speaking for myself, I would not be surprised if lots of CT members simply are discouraged from ever trying anything 'big' like that again. The bigger the project, the more effort and likely it is to fail. The motivation of the CT was at an all time low after those two arcs and while I can't be sure if that ever stuck with members of it permanently - I myself knew I would never make the attempt to lead anything of its scale or complexity again. It was simply far more struggle than it was worth - mostly due to the absolutely relentless and constant player backlash at the time.

While I cant be sure of the above, its very possible that's related as to why there is seemingly little in the way of massive narrative fronts currently. Then again, pretty sure this was mostly talking about scripts so maybe it doesn't even matter.

 

[Inspector Orlok]

I find that when rebels get a very large W, it’s sort of not expected by staff or CT. The task for blowing the thumpers up was most likely not supposed to go as well as planned so they didn’t make an end goal (reward) for the rebels.

I’ve even seen it recently when a rebel killed the global CLC director… cough, the global CLC director, you know, Mrs Worldwide. When I heard this had happened I was thinking “my god, what an amazing feat by rebels, they’ve finally grown some balls and have started to make strides in their attacks”

2 days later the CLC director was replaced, with no reward for their attack. It was really disappointing to hear all their effort had gone to waste. I was actually hoping for less supplies being moved to the city due to the murder of the director and so on. But na, nothing.

And then it clicked why rebels only stick to shotcops or BMD quests, because they’re not properly rewarded for their own personal actions.

That arc alone led to the metro, which led to the West of C24 which now led to I24...all of that stemmed from the Antlion arc alone.

No it didn’t, only reason we’re on I24 is because the old map was ass for RP, biotics had no place to stay at, sewers were too tiny, rebels had no place to hide, loot was not rewarding, citizens had nothing to do, stores were constantly closed. Shall I go on?

On the topic of the antlion arc, the arc wasn’t bad because CPs complained too much or rebels were harassed too much. It’s because the servers main faction, citizens, had nothing to do for most if not all the entire event.

The metro arc was somewhat railroaded by Rad-Xs tyrant character, a blessing in disguise if you ask me. What we’re citizens actually supposed to do for two weeks down there. Again, after a week everyone got bored.

I could go on, and on, and on about how the citizen faction is a second thought to most narrative arcs, and how they’re in the background more often that not, but I won’t, because I’ll sound like a broken record.

 

[BrennenW05]

What reece said, the problem is not someone daring to want an item as a reward (the horror!). It's the fact, that the only meaningful reward, is items. Intelligence, right now isnt usefull. There is no negatively affecting either combine or rebels supplies. No reason to not just shoot at each other. And no, the RP itself isn't enough, don't expect people to put weeks or months of working into something, and then just get words in a text box.

There needs to be an actual system in place for Combine, Citizens, Rebels to affect what is happing and have progression because of that.
Not something as vague as Narrative Arc, that happen to normally exclude factions from them. Something where personal actions of all factions can influence the story, a main story of the server, which Narrative Arcs fit into. And provides progression and regression for Combine and Rebels.

 

[RedHotGinger]

the Antlion arc alone.
No it didn’t, only reason we’re on I24 is because the old map was ass

Those are the meta reasons, yes. The prior arcs setup the narrative that it uses however. (Which is one of the reasons we went to i24 to begin with) And frankly without them, we'd have been on V3 for a  long time.

 

[Neonity]

2 days later the CLC director was replaced

2 hours*

 

[ultima]

What reece said, the problem is not someone daring to want an item as a reward (the horror!). It's the fact, that the only meaningful reward, is items. Intelligence, right now isnt usefull. There is no negatively affecting either combine or rebels supplies. No reason to not just shoot at each other. And no, the RP itself isn't enough, don't expect people to put weeks or months of working into something, and then just get words in a text box.

There needs to be an actual system in place for Combine, Citizens, Rebels to affect what is happing and have progression because of that.
Not something as vague as Narrative Arc, that happen to normally exclude factions from them. Something where personal actions of all factions can influence the story, a main story of the server, which Narrative Arcs fit into. And provides progression and regression for Combine and Rebels.

~30 ota KIA.
0 impact


wait no, the impact was that they added hunter npcs (and gms with pills too) to the outlands.
yipee!
View attachment ears.mov

 

[Risvolto]

2 days later the CLC director was replaced, with no reward for their attack. It was really disappointing to hear all their effort had gone to waste. I was actually hoping for less supplies being moved to the city due to the murder of the director and so on. But na, nothing.

Hi.

 

[Rabid]

A CityRP server relies on the status quo sticking around for the server to function, and unless its a pre-planned shift to go along with big rebel actions (which itself can only be done sparingly because its so much work like @RedHotGinger has expressed) you have to reset the damage as quick as possible so the wheel can keep spinning on its own.

This is the reality every other community running a long-term CityRP project has realized eventually. CityRp works because you know what to expect. If you start throwing huge curveballs and the whole thing shakes itself apart, you don't have much of a way to come back from it.

And considering Willard relies on this server to keep the lights on? Its no wonder, unfortunately.

 

[ItsLiam]

To give a serious response - rewards can be difficult to gauge, and usually are less than what might be expected. I might be wrong here and speaking with out of date information, but usually player led events have less of a risk because GMs don't wanna punish players for taking the initiative, whereas with GM led events they can be more free with threats because it's entirely a 'sign up' kinda deal where the risk is explicitly mentioned.

We downed 40 OTA in a player led event where we blew up a tower which was going to be deleted anyway.

Rebels downed 4 OTA+3 CPs in a GM led event to get supplies and everything.