Willard is unrewarding.

[ItsLiam]

Nothing on Willard is rewarding and "Player led events" aren't well rewarded enough. This goes for both Loyalists, Rebels, as well as CPs and Citizens and Vorts and everyone really.

For example; back in D43, me and a group blew up D43 thumpers which caused half of C24 to be decimated, The Combine having to hide in the Metro tunnel with Rebels etc. And we NEVER got anything rewarded for it or got anything out of it.

Sure, we got into the Metro Arc (WHICH GOT CUT SHORT FOR SOME REASON). But we have a really cool BMD group named "Wardens" who specialize in bombings, chaos, murdering the Combine. And guess what "Rep" or "Commendations" or "Compensation" we got out of it? NOTHING.

Recently, the Krah'Aur'Nur plus some other groups, including the group I'm in, did a whole operation to bring down some overseer tower in the Outlands. Sure, we are getting rewarded for it, but so far we have almost gotten nothing, and we are getting told we have to wait and be patient, wait and be patient, wait and be patient... I know people can be busy, this isn't a job, yada yada. But, it's still incredibly frustrating to see us not get rewarded for these things.

These things are extremely demotivating because every time we do something, we either don't get rewarded at all, or we have to wait an eternity to get our rewards. I know people are going to be like "Erm... But... You do not need the rewards to Rebel RP!!!" and to that I have to say; You're wrong. It's been proven time and time again that Willard and the RebelRP section of it is centered around scripts, getting better equipment, fighting the combine, etc. You can't do any "Passive" Rebellion since there just isn't anything to do with it.

I suggest we either encourage and motivate players to do "Player led events" by giving them the right reward, awarding them for their deeds, and not doing it 10% a month.

 

[Rabid]

We downed 40 OTA in a player led event where we blew up a tower which was going to be deleted anyway.

Rebels downed 4 OTA+3 CPs in a GM led event to get supplies and everything.

Unfortunately, yeah the people who went on a GM-led pre-planned event will obviously have an easier time getting rewarded with items because its all been considered beforehand.

Its much harder to reward a spontaneous action like yours. What's the logical outcome there? Ammo refunds for everyone to match what it took to kill 40 OTA and blow up a tower? Lowball it and people complain that they're wasting ammo and gear for nothing. Highball it due to what you accomplished and that's going to make massive backlash too. I'm not even going to touch on the narrative side of things because I'm sure that's self-explanatory.

 

[ultima]

Unfortunately, yeah the people who went on a GM-led pre-planned event will obviously have an easier time getting rewarded with items because its all been considered beforehand.

Its much harder to reward a spontaneous action like yours. What's the logical outcome there? Ammo refunds for everyone to match what it took to kill 40 OTA and blow up a tower? Lowball it and people complain that they're wasting ammo and gear for nothing. Highball it due to what you accomplished and that's going to make massive backlash too. I'm not even going to touch on the narrative side of things because I'm sure that's self-explanatory.

this was planned like 2 weeks beforehand
the logical outcome is rewarding players for surviving the onslaught of infinitely respawning ota which are superior in every way to rebels (guns, armor, gear, ammo)

 

[Risvolto]

My take: There should be a basic reward system in place.

THIS IS SIMPLY A MODEL TO SHOW OFF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT:
You're going into an event:
A: How dangerous is it? | B: How successful were you? | C: How many stuff were you humanly able to carry? | D: How many people were injured? |
And basing it on that, adding in points. Then setting default rewards for however many points you have. Like: 1 Point = Ammo, 3 points = Sub-machine gun + ammo, 6 points = Rifle + grenades + ammo, and so on.



Just as the crime timer works, it'd be like this:

1. How dangerous is it? /Here we consider the group size, what you're facing, and your chances of survival/ (No risk / Small risk/ Normal / High risk / Very high risk) = -1/ 0 / +2 / +5 / +8
2. How successful were you (Most objectives failed / Some objectives failed/ All priority objectives completed / Extra objectives completed / Best possible outcome) = -3 / -1 / +2 / +5 / +10
3. How many stuff were you humanly able to carry? (1 person / 2 - 4 / 5+ ) = -2 / -1 /0
4. How many people were injured?/ (1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5+) = -1/-2/-3/-4/-5 [Can't go above 5]

1-2 points = Small reward (Handguns, ammo, or only grenades)
3-4 points = Medium reward (SMG's + ammo, Good amount of pistols, or grenades + pistols)
5-6 points = High reward (A rifle + ammo, Grenades + SMG's, etc)
7-8 points =Extra high reward (A few rifles + ammo, Exclusive rewards(Xenian boosts, for example))
9-13 =Great reward (OTA equipment (Ar2's, not experimental ones), combine equipment, or any other high-value reward)
14+ = Amazingly high reward /Only possible in a high-risk operation with the best possible outcome/ (HIGH TIER OTA reward (one or two experimental AR2's) + pulse rounds, or something similar)

 

[Rabid]

this was planned like 2 weeks beforehand
the logical outcome is rewarding players for surviving the onslaught of infinitely respawning ota which are superior in every way to rebels (guns, armor, gear, ammo)

I don't disagree, but when you've got several rebel groups involved and they used up god knows how much ammo and equipment to actually make all this happen it suddenly becomes an incredibly tough balancing act for the staff team on how to reward that. Comparing that to a a small-scale GM event is silly, which is what I was highlighting.

"Here's a few boxes of ammo each" would get you torn to absolute shreds by the players. Likewise, "Here's a full armory of great guns as payment" would be incredibly difficult to balance too. Do all the players involved get a great gun and ammo? How do you handle the subsequent hit to the economy?

Narrative changes? Again, maybe, but its been made clear that it isn't entirely satisfying for people either.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Narrative changes? Again, maybe, but its been made clear that it isn't entirely satisfying for people either.

The bane of Willard, imo.

The fact that story and RP have taken a decisive backseat to mindless script/point chasing does not bode well for longevity. Willard feels like it has more in common with Dayz than it does a proper Half Life 2 RP server. Theres some story sure, but for the most part, the concern is loot.

 

[BrennenW05]

The bane of Willard, imo.

The fact that story and RP have taken a decisive backseat to mindless script/point chasing does not bode well for longevity. Willard feels like it has more in common with Dayz than it does a proper Half Life 2 RP server. Theres some story sure, but for the most part, the concern is loot.

How dare people want a item as a reward for doing something. The absolute horror!

 

[RedHotGinger]

How dare people want a item as a reward for doing something. The absolute horror!

If that is what you got from this you either didn't read anything else in this thread, your comprehension is lacking or you are just pretending to be stupid for the sake of humor. Either way, try again.

 

[BrennenW05]

If that is what you got from this you either didn't read anything else in this thread, your comprehension is lacking or you are just pretending to be stupid for the sake of humor. Either way, try again.

its a sarcastic joke, i actual agree with you that people focus on items to much, just not as extremely as you do, i made the exact same joke, in my actual response, that you didn't seem to read, and please, don't insult me over a simple joke.

 

[Hayden]

The bane of Willard, imo.

The fact that story and RP have taken a decisive backseat to mindless script/point chasing does not bode well for longevity. Willard feels like it has more in common with Dayz than it does a proper Half Life 2 RP server. Theres some story sure, but for the most part, the concern is loot.

I think this is a problem with gmodRP in general, not specific to just Willard.

To bring up a small anecdote, a RDR2 community I've been helping with recently had a all-out war, with one county trying to secede from the country as a whole due to bad relations with local LEO. In the end it led to nothing but a couple of PKs after a half dozen large-scale engagements with the US Army & Navy trying to whittle down morale and defences, before the war was eventually cut short due to OOC drama stemming from it.

Everyone was satisfied with the RP provided and chose to become a outlaw or seek a presidential pardon in exchange for ratting out the ringleaders of the secessionist movement. Never was there any request for a reward for providing RP which affected the whole server, despite the severe consequences that said RP caused to the characters involved (They can no longer realistically engage with the economy without trusted & smart middlemen, having been marked as wanted fugitives in every county and town in the state)

Meanwhile in Gmod servers I've been part of - it's common that even with events that hugely affect the ongoing narrative, there must be a reward provided for it, or it's seen as a net loss. Be it SCG, TNB, Neb (from what I'm told), or even Willard.

This isn't to say either sides are wrong/right, it's just that both communities favour differing types of players, which is perfectly fine (imo). You don't need to accept it, but it's not something that will change without a unrealistic amount of work being put into it. It also doesn't help that the grinding process in WN is arduous and time consuming, which leads to people wanting a way to at least break near-even after doing something that might affect other players in a interesting way, else they'll have to spend hours and days to get to a point where they can even try to defend themselves from whatever might happen in the coming days.

 

[Rabid]

Meanwhile in Gmod servers I've been part of - it's common that even with events that hugely affect the ongoing narrative, there must be a reward provided for it, or it's seen as a net loss. Be it SCG, TNB, Neb (from what I'm told), or even Willard.

Its very true in all of those cases, with the exception of personal plotlines or certain server events. TnB is probably the best about it but it certainly suffers from problems with people's attachment to scripts. No server I've ever been on is immune.

The main reason is down to CityRp itself, I think. Its built to be able to self-sustain even in the absence of direct staff intervention for sometimes literal years, and I've seen staff teams trying to push an event-tier narrative in such a setup. They burn out within weeks at max because its so intensive. And, more importantly I think, CityRp needs a certain dynamic to function and people are aware of that - they start to view actions (as either a Combine character or Rebel) as having no impact.

This then leads to scripts being seen as a more organic form of progression. You can see a gun, or a suit. Someone carrying an AR2 or a Spas-12 must have done something cool to earn it, right? It becomes a benchmark for rebels to strive for. I know what you mean when you say that it isn't inherently bad, but I agree that when people dismiss narrative consequences it leads to a cycle of frustration.

What helped me, personally, was to focus on my own narrative plotline with my character. I stopped caring about making a dent on the whole server, because being remembered by other players was far more rewarding.

People still know who Bottle Street are two years on. That, to me, is the sort of thing I aim for.

 

[ItsLiam]

this still applies btw

 

[Taliazure]

Nothing on Willard is rewarding and "Player led events" aren't well rewarded enough. This goes for both Loyalists, Rebels, as well as CPs and Citizens and Vorts and everyone really.

For example; back in D43, me and a group blew up D43 thumpers which caused half of C24 to be decimated, The Combine having to hide in the Metro tunnel with Rebels etc. And we NEVER got anything rewarded for it or got anything out of it.

Sure, we got into the Metro Arc (WHICH GOT CUT SHORT FOR SOME REASON). But we have a really cool BMD group named "Wardens" who specialize in bombings, chaos, murdering the Combine. And guess what "Rep" or "Commendations" or "Compensation" we got out of it? NOTHING.

Recently, the Krah'Aur'Nur plus some other groups, including the group I'm in, did a whole operation to bring down some overseer tower in the Outlands. Sure, we are getting rewarded for it, but so far we have almost gotten nothing, and we are getting told we have to wait and be patient, wait and be patient, wait and be patient... I know people can be busy, this isn't a job, yada yada. But, it's still incredibly frustrating to see us not get rewarded for these things.

These things are extremely demotivating because every time we do something, we either don't get rewarded at all, or we have to wait an eternity to get our rewards. I know people are going to be like "Erm... But... You do not need the rewards to Rebel RP!!!" and to that I have to say; You're wrong. It's been proven time and time again that Willard and the RebelRP section of it is centered around scripts, getting better equipment, fighting the combine, etc. You can't do any "Passive" Rebellion since there just isn't anything to do with it.

I suggest we either encourage and motivate players to do "Player led events" by giving them the right reward, awarding them for their deeds, and not doing it 10% a month.

And for a server that is "player-driven" we depend on staff and gms 90% of the time. I feel like anything you try to do in the server is moderated 24/7. Anything you go and try to use/do is met with a pm of "not allowed" or "too unfair, nope".
Doesn't feel player-driven at all in my personal experience.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

could you present an invoice on fair reward to a measurable roleplay challenge?
thank you

 

[JustWats]

Nothing on Willard is rewarding and "Player led events" aren't well rewarded enough. This goes for both Loyalists, Rebels, as well as CPs and Citizens and Vorts and everyone really.

For example; back in D43, me and a group blew up D43 thumpers which caused half of C24 to be decimated, The Combine having to hide in the Metro tunnel with Rebels etc. And we NEVER got anything rewarded for it or got anything out of it.

Sure, we got into the Metro Arc (WHICH GOT CUT SHORT FOR SOME REASON). But we have a really cool BMD group named "Wardens" who specialize in bombings, chaos, murdering the Combine. And guess what "Rep" or "Commendations" or "Compensation" we got out of it? NOTHING.

Recently, the Krah'Aur'Nur plus some other groups, including the group I'm in, did a whole operation to bring down some overseer tower in the Outlands. Sure, we are getting rewarded for it, but so far we have almost gotten nothing, and we are getting told we have to wait and be patient, wait and be patient, wait and be patient... I know people can be busy, this isn't a job, yada yada. But, it's still incredibly frustrating to see us not get rewarded for these things.

These things are extremely demotivating because every time we do something, we either don't get rewarded at all, or we have to wait an eternity to get our rewards. I know people are going to be like "Erm... But... You do not need the rewards to Rebel RP!!!" and to that I have to say; You're wrong. It's been proven time and time again that Willard and the RebelRP section of it is centered around scripts, getting better equipment, fighting the combine, etc. You can't do any "Passive" Rebellion since there just isn't anything to do with it.

I suggest we either encourage and motivate players to do "Player led events" by giving them the right reward, awarding them for their deeds, and not doing it 10% a month.

Staff rewards are miserable. The rebel leadership (aside from Gutsy) are entirely out of touch with what the current ecosystem or climate is because they do not play whatsoever, and refuse to give the roles to anyone that actually understands what the fuck is going on. They give modern-era groups like rewards of scrap guns, or USPs when they already have seven in their storages, or split chips among a large group so it becomes not worthwhile (2k chips is dogshit. I can get that in a few workshifts or by running a store and converting coupons). This has always been the case, there were groups like the Engineering guild who begged to do stuff every single day to help the Rebels but were habitually denied. Staff lack a non-linear idea of how to propose rewards or bring in items into the atmosphere that can actually change or give someone an advantage. This is because they are scared of rebels having an advantage.

It's almost like they do not understand that rewarding means you obtain something worthwhile, advantageous, and beneficial. The reason rebel RP is absolutely dog shit is because you are consistently against all odds. There is nobody who is going to be willing to help you OOCly right now. The only way you can make it big is by doing stealthy jabs and pokes, or instrumenting your own roleplay which gets denied through the monumental amounts of obstacles and barriers in the way that prohibits you.

 

[boots]

because they do not play whatsoever

Name one staff who does not play the game, unlikely you'll find one.

This is because they are scared of rebels having an advantage.

Rebels /already/ have an advantage, where all I would hear from cops/in passing for the last month is that sweeps return devastating casualties and resistance getting away with stuff.

It's almost like they do not understand that rewarding means you obtain something worthwhile, advantageous, and beneficial. The reason rebel RP is absolutely dog shit is because you are consistently against all odds. There is nobody who is going to be willing to help you OOCly right now. The only way you can make it big is by doing stealthy jabs and pokes, or instrumenting your own roleplay which gets denied through the monumental amounts of obstacles and barriers in the way that prohibits you.

I mean, I don't disagree with you entirely but I think staff need to be careful in what they give out so it doesn't result in something being extremely op.

And another thing, instead of saying what you would like to receive, you just complained, fixing nothing and giving no solid constructive criticism, you just ranted. There's hardly anything to go off other than the fact that you're unhappy with the rewards from staff.

Not to mention, resistance IS against all odds, you are fighting against the force that took Earth in 7 hours, yet somehow they still drop like flies during shotcops and retaliatory sweeps, but for gameplay purposes, the rebels are given more leeway to get away with stuff.

If people really think Willard is unrewarding, then they have been playing for too long and should take a break and come back with a fresh set of eyes. There is plenty of good RP, you just need to find it. Interact with different groups, make a new character, etc.

So tell me, what would be a good reward?

 

[JustWats]

Name one staff who does not play the game, unlikely you'll find one.


Rebels /already/ have an advantage, where all I would hear from cops/in passing for the last month is that sweeps return devastating casualties and resistance getting away with stuff.


I mean, I don't disagree with you entirely but I think staff need to be careful in what they give out so it doesn't result in something being extremely op.

And another thing, instead of saying what you would like to receive, you just complained, fixing nothing and giving no solid constructive criticism, you just ranted. There's hardly anything to go off other than the fact that you're unhappy with the rewards from staff.

Not to mention, resistance IS against all odds, you are fighting against the force that took Earth in 7 hours, yet somehow they still drop like flies during shotcops and retaliatory sweeps, but for gameplay purposes, the rebels are given more leeway to get away with stuff.

So tell me, what would be a good reward?

Spoiler: Head of Staff and Rebel Leads Activity

Rebels have zero advantage. It has to be entirely obtained by the player. Cops can go into an atmosphere where everything is given to them, and they are safe regardless of the decisions that are made. If you fuck up on your Rebel, you are done. If you fuck up on a cop, you still get the whitelist, you still have unlimited access to gear, and you still have your character. There is little punishment for mistakes. If you would've played when the Resistance scene was doing stuff every day, then you would see the reality of how shit it is now. Out of the like dozen of sweeps I have been on in the last two months, several canals patrols. I have seen a sweep fail once, where I had to pull back due to a mistake of the PT leader.

There are no devastating casualties for cops, only i5s have died at the hands of rebels. Most deaths from cops are OOC, or due to units killing other units, the reason Resistance is getting away with stuff is that they are forced to play stealth. This is primarily because of the direction that Bassilisk has established, and Gutsy has set an example for his group.

I don't need to provide constructive criticism, this isn't a suggestion, nor is it my thread. The entire purpose of a complaint is to declare a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable.
Willard's timeline is set in the year 2020, 17 or so years after occupation. One year prior to the events of HL2 where City 17 is the last urban center. Rebels have had 17 years to accumulate supplies, plans, and leadership. The Combine are crumbling, sectors are failing, or conducting mutinies.

 

[Risvolto]

Name one staff who does not play the game, unlikely you'll find one.

Won't name cus that's disrespectful. An image speaks better

 

[boots]

Won't name cus that's disrespectful. An image speaks better
View attachment 32851

Which doesn't really prove any point because they haven't played since early August, so like how are they handing out bad rewards?

 

[Risvolto]

Which doesn't really prove any point because they haven't played since early August, so like how are they handing out bad rewards?

I was just pointing out that there are staff members that don't play the game, unlike you said.

 

[HalfLife2CitizenMale09]

Willard's timeline is set in the year 2020, 17 or so years after occupation. One year prior to the events of HL2 where City 17 is the last urban center. Rebels have had 17 years to accumulate supplies, plans, and leadership. The Combine are crumbling, sectors are failing, or conducting mutinies.

To be fair Breen says “One of our finest remaining urban centers” not “Our last remaining urban center”