A Maybe Too Honest, Too Unfunny, Too Weird Critique of Willard's Roleplaying Environment, Mindset, and Community/Gameplay. 5/22/2024

[dusty]

I agree with all of this.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

I don't know why I'm being put into a spotlight along with the Kamikos so I'll make my quick comments to shield the players active in them.

I must respectfully disagree with you entirely on the Kamiko area where you're pointing me out as barely not playing a character. Seems you haven't been around us too much to see what happens behind those closed doors. Only one character wears a suit, the rest of them? We're slum ridden dogs and none of us are respected well in character. We've avoided being gobbled up by Civil Protection and the Resistance by the skin of our teeth for the past few weeks.

I go out as the character with what is likely a barely functional essence of authority and put him at great lengths of risk nearly every day on the server, staying until 4:00am my time just to play that character. Not over-exaggerating either, half of the group has done the same.

So I'm going to go with the idea that you might be missing a good handful of details on how the Kamiko family is operating. We're more than meets the eye, I'm afraid.

I've never actually played the Yakuza games or seen gameplay of them, and we've so far gotten a great deal of positive reaction from the playerbase that interact with us. It will never be perfect, it's HL2RP - but it's operating extremely well for the server and to call it unserious based on... I'm not sure how you came to those conclusions but to me it's a bit absurd.

So I don't know what to tell you there other than the above. Revamping something that's working really well for the server is not desirable.

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TL;DR - Unfair assessment on our part, here. Perhaps you would like to take a closer look with an invitation to showcase?

 

[Botulism]

I don't know why I'm being put into a spotlight along with the Kamikos so I'll make my quick comments to shield the players active in them.

I must respectfully disagree with you entirely on the Kamiko area where you're pointing me out as barely not playing a character. Seems you haven't been around us too much to see what happens behind those closed doors. Only one character wears a suit, the rest of them? We're slum ridden dogs and none of us are respected well in character. We've avoided being gobbled up by Civil Protection and the Resistance by the skin of our teeth for the past few weeks.

I go out as the character with what is likely a barely functional essence of authority and put him at great lengths of risk nearly every day on the server, staying until 4:00am my time just to play that character. Not over-exaggerating either, half of the group has done the same.

So I'm going to go with the idea that you might be missing a good handful of details on how the Kamiko family is operating. We're more than meets the eye, I'm afraid.

I've never actually played the Yakuza games or seen gameplay of them, and we've so far gotten a great deal of positive reaction from the playerbase that interact with us. It will never be perfect, it's HL2RP - but it's operating extremely well for the server and to call it unserious based on... I'm not sure how you came to those conclusions but to me it's a bit absurd.

So I don't know what to tell you there other than the above. Revamping something that's working really well for the server is not desirable.

----

TL;DR - Unfair assessment on our part, here. Perhaps you would like to take a closer look with an invitation to showcase?

While the Kamikos are fun, I've gotta be the one to say it even if it hurts me to do so -- it just doesn't feel true to me. I love Ozaki but I don't know, I feel like I'm reading a fiction novel or a manga rather than a biography everytime I play around the higher ups of the Kamiko faction. It mainly has to do with their flashiness, and I know not all of them dress like he does, but a good portion of them just don't feel like real people in their mannerisms and the general theme of each roleplaying scenario with them involved.

THAT SUCKS TO SAY, I HATE IT, BECAUSE I actually DO love them, but...I don't know, I just can't PERSONALLY buy it, they take me out of it, the slum-dog Kamikos are great, Baek and Yumi are great, but I don't know, I'd do it differently. I don't expect them to change anytime soon and I'm happier for it, but I just want to be the one to say it -- I can buy a lot of them as characters, but I can't buy a lot of the Kamiko members as people, and many first impressions are of the belief that they're imitating the members of the Yakuza Games.

I feel kinda bad for putting it in such an aggressive way, but my grandpa was a union organizer, It's hard for me to NOT present my ideas as if it's a fight for my life. Nothing's meant personally and I really enjoy their presence, but if I ain't ruffling some feathers on someone's behalf, what's there worth doing?

And yes, would be enjoyable to continue roleplaying with them. I wanna be disproven on the Kamikos' part, that's one of the few factions I'd actually like to be truly wrong about, because I think for most others I'm unfortunately right in some ways, even if I put it like a crazed conspiracy-theorist uncle. I get angry because I actually do enjoy the players of this server, but I don't think that shows through text.

 

[Marco]

this enlightened me.

 

[Imperator RAD-X]

Big comment

OKAY, I'll take that onboard. That makes more sense to me. Thank you for the feedback.
It is a first time running something like this so there's always shifts and turns to play with x)

Anyway, your whole forum topic is sparking an internal conversation so we'll see where it leads. I don't think every point is valid, since it goes to some lengths in an extreme - and Willard was once upon a time built on a layer of extremes (it didn't last long) but I'm sure there's some validity in it.

All down to the players in the end.

 

[Botulism]

Cool Comment

TOTALLY. Whenever I write huge lists like this, I pray that there's a lot of things people'll disagree with. I'm not going to act like I have any authority on the subjects given and I'm fully describing things how I and a lot of other players see them -- people with varying viewpoints who don't see the inner workings of everything. I wasn't going into this hoping people would 100% kneel to everything I put out, but wanting to provoke some thought and maybe some good change? Nothing wrong with that in my book. I write them out in a provocative manner so people WILL start talking, a nice sweet thread gets zero attention, am I right?

The point about obscene roleplay especially I threw in like a joker in a card-deck. It IS something I'd actually like to see in some form or another to be relieved somewhat, but I don't hope for a complete 180 anytime soon. I wanted to go all out and hope that through all of this, people would be more interested in being honest on the forums then just hiding in DMs and telling me how they wished they could suggest things. If I'm gonna make myself look a bit stupid, maybe they won't fear provoking discourse as much?

As for the Kamikos, I think you're doing great so far fun-wise. I do wish they were outwardly scummier though and a lot of people I know are quick to write them off as one-note yakuza game ripoffs. I let that factor in to my writing and it came out as if I hated them and thought you were going semi-serious. NOT what I think at all, but first impressions are everything at the end of the day and I tried to factor in as much discourse and hearsay I've heard as possible.

 

[Robert]

I will be honest in coming in for the limited time that I have to write to say I feel a good chunk of points are outdated. The post is sorta 50/50 on validity but is also different from person to person based on ones experiences.

For example the view on Rebels feels like an analysis of the Industrial 24 rebels and not the City 8 Rebels who are worlds apart in terms of behavior, roleplay, maturity, etc. Rebels have come a long way since I24 and change has sparked rapidly throughout them. While they are not fully in with the Arc ongoing, they are at least partaking in Roleplay over trash bag grinding- but again based on experience of each person this view may change. From flying around in observer and comments from other players and staff, the RP quality, the amount of RP and the overall maturity of the scene has made a massive jump since i24 and the amount of mingey grinding behaviours and shotcopping has died downwards and continues to stay the course for a downward trend.

The Yakuza existence also has a strong role in the Rebel scene and gives them far more to do beyond shooting people which has majorly helped them. Rebels are playing their part and Reps have made a good vision for Rebels to operate with the Deck of 52 providing them a more intriguing set of gameplay conditions for them to play along with if they choose to. Which has had good feedback so far.

Loyalism I can agree with to extent there as yes... I would say its the worst part of Willards gameplay loop as it commonly has nothing to do and so do Citizens. Of course, it has improved as well since i24 with far more interactivity than ever before, possibly the small landscape of the map helps too where everyone in an easy to access single zone. That and loyalist factions have been at work making sure Loyalism has far more to do and far more events and activity.

CPs was a long one to read and while I understand I also do not. I am getting a vibe of Robocop energy which does put me off from the point being made because while being oppressive and aggressive for cps can be fun- it also generally is hated among the wider playerbase and even CPs themselves who despise those trying to play super aggressive cop 9000 since while it may fit the hl2 theme, it also doesn't make for a great gameplay element for Citizens, Rebels, factions, etc alike.

Racism and such... not going to touch that can of worms as while it may make sense to do such from an IC pov, from an OOC pov I can tell you now that yes people and the playerbase do care. The words of "Faggot", "Retard", "N-word" etc really grind some peoples gears to the extreme. We as staff seen many times a group of people launching crusades against insulting words because their IRL culture and beliefs highly disallow such regardless of context. Even if it may fit the theme of the character played, without consent it can come across as outright rude to another player on a OOC level regardless of intention.

Staff was answered by others already and has been dealt with for those lagging behind.

Thats all I got time for, so back to work I go.

 

[0xNiklas]

because for atleast a dozen people I've talked to on discord, there's nothing keeping them around save for friends or a lucky whitelist they scored.

The biggest point I feel right now.

 

[ultima]

While this is more than a valid point - especially when you consider how limited and restricted OTA is right now - I think frustrations should be expressed in a more formal and cordial matters. I don't hold grudges nor do I have anything against Ultima but try putting yourself in the perspective of the player: how would you feel if someone had these outbursts in the staff chat, moments before your character receives the PK?

View attachment 35359

A player, who has more likely put effort into their character only for it to be greeted by a reaction like this. It's not my place to speak, but this is bad faith in my opinion. The cherry ontop, is that this comes from the PK manager, who is expected to handle things professionally.


I agree with you here. I don't think Ultima is PK hungry, and it's more of a case (or lackthereof) emotional maturity, but I digress. I'm glad that something was done about this, and I'll remain hopeful that we don't get to see these types of reactions again. This is what breaks the trust of the players.

Yo dude, I was in the middle of s2k and people tend to get nervous in high risk situations like that. My staff chat wasn't on and i used @ to get someone to gm my thing. after no1 responded after the corpse was dragged away during my /me I turned it on and (very obviously jokingly) repeated myself "i will argue to the ends of the earth", which was once again ignored (not to anyones fault) as most of these situations have people needing to look at 4-5 different chats in game, out of the game, steam dms, discord dms, etc etc. I simply repeated myself to make sure what I did was seen. Does the fact I'm a PK Manager void me of being able to play on the server??? Do I simply have to stop doing things because I hold some kind of authority of player character deaths? I simply asked for someone to get PK'ed as anyone else would. The specifics could have all been talked in a PK appeal of why someone did x y z, getting something that's obviously out of context and jumping on my back about it is very toxic considering you have 0 idea of what's going on. At that specific time a GM deemed it that I could do my /me to execute the vort.

 

[Wraygun]

Does the fact I'm a PK Manager void me of being able to play on the server??? Do I simply have to stop doing things because I hold some kind of authority of player character deaths?

No, you're missing the point entirely. You are holding the postion of a PK Manager and OTA at the same time however. By doing that, you're essentially putting yourself under a spotlight that is quite bright. And I'll reiterate my point again: omments like these will be perceived as scrutinizing by a good amount of people and as I said in my previous reply: it damages the trust between staff and players.
​

getting something that's obviously out of context and jumping on my back about it is very toxic considering you have 0 idea of what's going on.

I have my own share of knowledge. Hypocritical to call someone toxic, when it's these comments made a player leave the community. And before I get called out, I got this little info from Botulism himself.​

 

[ramen]

at worst? Racist stereotypes that cause more awkward laughs than inspire fear.

I hope you don’t mean the ever amazing YELLO-87

 

[nath1234567]

I agree with the trash bag looting being unenjoyable for RP but also feel like it's important to have on the server. If people don't have a way to get items through trash then the next complaint is going to be that it's too hard to get involved with Rebel RP.

I don't find it enjoyable to do trash looting because it takes time away from me being able to do actual roleplay with other characters, so I hardly ever do it except on my days off when I can join the server early and have an excessive amount of time to kill. My character has invested himself in other forms of business (drug trade) in order to make chips through actual RP interactions, and despite my efforts I still find that trash bag looting is a far more efficient way to make chips. I wish this wasn't the case because I would love to be able to remove myself from selling scrap from trash entirely.

I may be wrong but it feels like the only rebels who can escape the trash bag grind completely are the ones who are authorized BMDs, or the ones who have found a job in the city. Sentinels may have a different experience because their group has pretty good resources in storage and they get consistent opportunities to add to that as well as their manpower and presence of BMDs. But for little groups we gotta subject ourselves to trash bags to keep up.

 

[ultima]

No, you're missing the point entirely. You are holding the postion of a PK Manager and OTA at the same time however. By doing that, you're essentially putting yourself under a spotlight that is quite bright. And I'll reiterate my point again: omments like these will be perceived as scrutinizing by a good amount of people and as I said in my previous reply: it damages the trust between staff and players.


View attachment 35361
I have my own share of knowledge. Hypocritical to call someone toxic, when it's these comments made a player leave the community. And before I get called out, I got this little info from Botulism himself.​

My mistake. I'll make sure to amend it.

 

[Sync]

I wish we had more freedom of roleplay on the server, it is crazy to me that you have to write AUTHs for things like fishing. Over the years that I played willard networks, I saw how creative roleplay has been getting more and more restrictive.

I think the issue comes from having so many british admins (Cause of the licenses they have for everything there). We should get rid of British admins.

 

[ramen]

we need more americans

 

[boots]

Loyalism I can agree with to extent there as yes... I would say its the worst part of Willards gameplay loop as it commonly has nothing to do and so do Citizens. Of course, it has improved as well since i24 with far more interactivity than ever before, possibly the small landscape of the map helps too where everyone in an easy to access single zone. That and loyalist factions have been at work making sure Loyalism has far more to do and far more events and activity.

From my experience and in my opinion, I think there's a lack of things to do as a collaborator here in C8.

Not really a complain or addressing it as saying something needs to change, things are fine. Just an observation, I felt like on i24, there was a bunch of activity surrounding the 'faction' especially with Bloke (@Quest) and surrounding binders (@AgathaL), the awards being given out for the debt arc, infestation events and how the loyalist factions tied into that, speeches, etc.

It just felt more active, we should do a revival

 

[0xNiklas]

From my experience and in my opinion, I think there's a lack of things to do as a collaborator here in C8.

Not really a complain or addressing it as saying something needs to change, things are fine. Just an observation, I felt like on i24, there was a bunch of activity surrounding the 'faction' especially with Bloke (@Quest) and surrounding binders (@AgathaL), the awards being given out for the debt arc, infestation events and how the loyalist factions tied into that, speeches, etc.

It just felt more active, we should do a revival

In i24, my char aurelio was involved in so many political schism. Conflict between allegiance to a thing or even cities. I had much more to do and now I try to look around and obviously knowing that as foreigner collab, you have less chances. Now, I feel like I have nothing to do. Which just throws my long developed character into the trash. But looking at the bright side, I can play my local character, Kaito Ikari, a conscript of daisy lighting. But I feel really out of touch with my collaborator, I dunno where the RP-Hubs may be or what political shit is going on, but that looks right identical to that Mega-Event in a Chinese City, where gangs are the main thing.

 

[Muho]

ONE THING... GIVE CWU MORE THEN PET FLAGS SO WE CAN DO BOMB WORKSHIFTS! (pls)


ANOTHER THING, @George 's comment is based. Whenever I try to speak to Reb L's and try to converse with them, its like talking to a wall. (not all ofc)
Classic conversation goes like this
1."You ever thought of another way besides Killing CP's?"
2."No, they chose their side, so its my duty to fuck them up! You got adhesive by the way?"
1."No, but imagine if we did things like building up infrastructure and strengthen everyone. Do counter propaganda and whatnot"
2."Nah man, the CP's gotta PAY for what they do to us! Oonga bunga"

Then when someone actually has Ideas and wants to change things in the underground ---> @ OI BRUV, YOU NEED A LICENCE FOR THAT. WRITE 8 PARAGRAPHS IN THE FORUM!!! or ASK THIS AND THIS PERSON, THEY MANAGE THAT BRUV!!! (person not online) ---> RP gets delayed and bothersome

Even creating chars out of the ordinary needs an auth ffs. "Oh you want to speak more then two languages... write an auth mate can't give it out per @ menu"

So @Sync is right in way, give us more ways to be creative without restricting bunch of things.

ANOTHER THING
Reb L's have more overwatch weaponary then the overwatch forces... makes no sense. Make the weapons super rare and special. The amount of times I saw someone having Pulse weapons is just funny at this point. I would even suggest, unlocking them being super duper difficult, taking days of proper RP to do so.

Also @toby is back LETSGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WILLARD SAVED!

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

I have returned to willard, it seems that willard's not doing very well

hi toby!!

 

[𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮]

Classic conversation goes like this
1."You ever thought of another way besides Killing CP's?"
2."No, they chose their side, so its my duty to fuck them up! You got adhesive by the way?"
1."No, but imagine if we did things like building up infrastructure and strengthen everyone. Do counter propaganda and whatnot"
2."Nah man, the CP's gotta PAY for what they do to us! Oonga bunga"

Has it really got this bad? Dear lord.