The S2K Disaster

[MCG]

Your Steam Name: MCGSCEFFAAWHETJH55555
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:33130062

Their Steam Name(s): Divine, Taliazure
Their SteamID('s): No idea.
Do you know their Discord or Forum name(s)?: The same as Steam Names.
Why are you reporting this player?: I was responding to Deacon's cries for help because he was being attacked by someone we had let go just a bit earlier for trying to rob my character. When we caught up, we were told to stop by the GM, who then declared it to be an S2K even thought there were 4 players involved, one of whom was disabled, and out of the two fighting Talia's character, only Crash had a gun. I was getting prepared to do S2RP so when S2K kicked in. The event specifically mentioned that Talia's character was trying to escape/run away, but when we were given the green light to move, she instead shot at us all. Crash was sprayed down and I was about to type a /me to pull Deacon away when I was sprayed. I ran away as she gave chase or camped nearby, trying to find shelter in my base. She jumped me from behind with automatic fire to the point where I had 5-10 HP, so I had to pull my gun out so that I could attempt to *not* die. I hate S2K and I've outlined as much in several posts over the years as well as the @ command. I pulled out my shotgun and got jumped with a flashbang and more gunfire as soon as I left, which would've happened anyway if I didn't have a weapon based on what had happened before. I obviously died because I have 300+ ping and a shit computer, so there was no way I was beating anyone at S2K.

What I find confusing is why S2K was declared all of a sudden, without any player input, because that directly caused all the subsequent events to not make sense. Both Talia and I were jumping and running like idiots playing a shooter as opposed to acting like our characters would, and if her character was apparently bloodthirsty enough to shoot unarmed people, I don't understand why I didn't get PKed. Nothing about it made sense. I discussed the scenario after the fact and I've been advised differently by two different staff members with regards to the rules. Divine tells me S2K can happen against unarmed people, while Robert apparently says it is purely S2RP, so I don't know what I'm supposed to believe.



I made this report because I would prefer a clear-cut answer on when we can decide on S2K/S2RP and whether one can S2K against an unarmed person according to the rules. This S2K encounter killed any desire for me to play on Main. I explicitly rejoined after 2 years because I heard S2RP was taking over from the old S2K days, only to get forced into an S2K encounter and obviously losing. I'm not so much bummed about the loss of gear or about possible PKs, but entrusting so much into an encounter that relies on ping, connection speed, good specs, etc is just absolutely terrible. If the GM at least outlined the option of whether we could pick between S2K and S2RP (and based on having read recent PK appeals, I was under the impression we would be given that choice), then it would have determined my involvement in that event.



Evidence to support your reasoning (Evidence must be clear and it could be logs, pictures or video): I didn't take any pictures but this report isn't about refuting any existing facts. Everything should be in the server logs. I'm just confused about the decisions made and the rules referred to.

Names of witnesses that can provide extra feedback on this case?: boots and Vaher Nitsen were probably spectating. Silta and (whoever plays Crash) were involved in the event itself.

 

[atlassu]

After thoroughly addressing all points raised, I’d like to leave this as my final word on the matter ( once again), consolidating everything discussed into a clear conclusion:

• The encounter in question involved a combat scenario where I remained positioned in the courtyard, never flanking or pursuing anyone.
• Beau was the one who attempted to flank by sneaking into a base to gear up. He was unarmed when I heard him and reacted accordingly, he should've ran away not back into a zone where the enemy is, if he had run towards the left he had several paths to take to safely hide away, instead he returned to the same spot, proving to still be a threat. No one guaranteed he was not a threat, no one guaranteed he didn't pick up one of the weapons from the downed players, no one guarantees he was truly unarmed and he decided to introduce himself as an enemy when he was recognized by my character and attempted to help the other two whom were in a fight with me. Just because he was unarmed does not mean he was not actively playing against my character. Rebels have medics who heal them mid shoot out versus combine, don't you think those will get shot even if they arent holding a gun? None of the rules, pk, rdm or engagement specify armed or unarmed in any fashion, that condition is totally irrelevant.
• I anticipated further aggression, so I remained in place and staged a defensive ambush, throwing a grenade to catch pursuing players off guard not fleeing, but repositioning strategically
• My actions—ambushing, looting weapons/magazines, were in-character tactical decisions aimed at delaying or demotivating immediate retribution as well as re-arming myself.
• These were not arbitrary or malicious actions, but part of my character’s logical survival approach as an antagonist operating within hostile territory.
• Any /me or /event used during the scenario reflected what your characters could reasonably perceive i.e., my character exiting an alleyway.
• Once out of sight, I was under no obligation to emote my ambush or movements further, as doing so would violate immersion and potentially give away tactical positioning unfairly.
• This is aligned with how S2K and RP visibility are typically handled.
• No rules were broken:
  • No RDM occurred, each engagement was tied to character logic, threat assessment, or provocation.
  • No PKs were forced, nor were there attempts to erase anyone’s character or development.
  • I acted within the server’s rule boundaries and upheld the standards of fair conflict.
• If someone feels the outcome was unfair, that is a gameplay or narrative disagreement, not a rule violation, take it to Rad-x, Robert and Hayden.

While I recognize that S2RP may feel more “fair” in smaller skirmishes, S2K was agreed upon and executed based on the unfolding events.

• I respect differing preferences in mechanics, but I acted in good faith within the chosen method of conflict.
• I did not "win to win", I created tension, played smart, and left most characters alive to further narrative potential.
• If anyone struggles to make sense of surviving the encounter, that’s a storytelling challenge, but not one caused by bad faith or meta behavior on my part.
• Surviving a gunfight doesn’t require character deletion. Instead, it can be a launchpad for further development: trauma, revenge arcs, shifting alliances.
• That is part of roleplay and adapting to what the story gives you, even when it's inconvenient.

This issue, at its core, is not about broken rules or abuse of mechanics, it's about disagreement over outcome and expectations. I understand the frustration, especially when you feel disadvantaged or when RP motivations are disrupted by mechanics like S2K.


But throughout this scenario:

• I stayed within the rules.
• I made consistent IC decisions.
• I avoided unnecessary PKs.
• I encouraged RP continuation, not finality.

If no concrete accusations remain, I consider this matter resolved. I’m always willing to discuss future encounters constructively, but I will not continue defending a situation where no misconduct occurred.
I'm sorry if I may have come as brass, crude or insulting but the situation just doesn't make sense to me to further a player report.

Thanks for reading, and I genuinely hope the RP can continue I now leave it for the rest to discuss this further and for staff to conclude.

can i get a tldr please?

 

[Silta]

people asked for a more hardcore server, now deal with it.

If you're that butt-hurt you need to find some reason to make this scene be voided or punished at me and Divine out of nothin burgers I can only say I pity you for being so petty.

Thats very rude and disrespectful wording... Please try to be more constructive and civil and less insulting.

 

[M3ntal]

S2K was...agreed upon? Was it? Based on what MCR and others said, S2K was decided by the overseeing GM without consulting the players.

Also, nobody is accusing you, Tali, of breaking rules, nobody here has said that, we just voiced that the way you executed your actions and went about doing them was dubious, not somehow against the rules. Even Bauer's player said he doesn't intend to oppose the PK, he is criticizing your approach, like I am.

Just adding a point myself to criticize the presiding GM about not actually consulting the other players involved, from the looks of this discussion. If they did do that, let me know.

 

[Silta]

S2K was...agreed upon? Was it? Based on what MCR and others said, S2K was decided by the overseeing GM without consulting the players.

Just adding a point myself to criticize the presiding GM about not actually consulting the other players involved, from the looks of this discussion. If they did do that, let me know.

It was not. At least, Bauer, Crash, and I weren't asked. Divine and Talia discussed it I guess? But I don't even remember seeing it in-game/OOC unless it was via PMs. But the rest of us had no say in the matter.

 

[Divine]

There wasn’t any discussion between anyone on converting the engagement from S2RP to S2K, that was my decision and mine alone once the incident rose to 4 participants and at the idea of fleeing from the scene / exiting CQC.

 

[Divine]

This hardly matters now because I’m leaving, but I will again state I believe:

- I, as the (ex-)GM, am not in the wrong for how I carried out the engagement.
- Taliazure is not in the wrong because she only followed through with what I did as a GM, so her involvement is moot. Taking Robert’s statement on the rules as gospel instead of reading the rules is — and I’ll say this as much as I need — fucking dumb. You are referring to his opinion and interpretation, read the rules; he has zero context on the situation at hand. Not blaming Robert for this, he was just saying what he thought was right for a general situation.

 

[MCG]

This hardly matters now because I’m leaving, but I will again state I believe:

- I, as the (ex-)GM, am not in the wrong for how I carried out the engagement.
- Taliazure is not in the wrong because she only followed through with what I did as a GM, so her involvement is moot. Taking Robert’s statement on the rules as gospel instead of reading the rules is — and I’ll say this as much as I need — fucking dumb. You are referring to his opinion and interpretation, read the rules; he has zero context on the situation at hand. Not blaming Robert for this, he was just saying what he thought was right for a general situation.

I have read the rules. I just needed a proper interpretation since you and him had different takes on the matter. It seemed contradictory enough that it warranted the creation of this thread. I don't see how that is 'fucking dumb'.

 

[MCG]

Plus I'm not sure why you're suddenly being so hostile about it when you were cordial before. I get your dissatisfaction with what's been going on, but I don't appreciate that it's being taken out on me for making what I thought was a reasonable thread. Does getting out of your staff position suddenly mean you have to exonerate yourself while telling people they're wrong for asking?

 

[Divine]

I have read the rules. I just needed a proper interpretation since you and him had different takes on the matter. It seemed contradictory enough that it warranted the creation of this thread. I don't see how that is 'fucking dumb'.

I’m not calling the thread itself dumb, because you have a point of view; your voice should be heard. Though, you even say it yourself, "a proper interpretation"? We need not rely on the thoughts of one person to determine an outcome. He had zero context for the situation at hand, and his word is not gospel. It is an affair that should be discussed with the staff at large, not one ill-informed staff member.

 

[Divine]

Plus I'm not sure why you're suddenly being so hostile about it when you were cordial before. I get your dissatisfaction with what's been going on, but I don't appreciate that it's being taken out on me for making what I thought was a reasonable thread. Does getting out of your staff position suddenly mean you have to exonerate yourself while telling people they're wrong for asking?

I’m not attacking you, I’m adding emphasis. You weren’t even the one who asked the question… it was boots… whom I am (or was? I don’t know if we still are) friends with

 

[MCG]

I’m not calling the thread itself dumb, because you have a point of view; your voice should be heard. Though, you even say it yourself, "a proper interpretation"? We need not rely on the thoughts of one person to determine an outcome. He had zero context for the situation at hand, and his word is not gospel. It is an affair that should be discussed with the staff at large, not one ill-informed staff member.

Then that's fine. That's what the thread was about. It's not like I took him at his word and did a one-man crusade to slander your name. I just did not understand what was going on based on what was either contradictory rules or contradictory interpretations. Not a single staff member (and I've asked plenty in DMs at the time) was giving me something consistent.

 

[VaherNitsen]

corsica

 

[MazuzaM]

can S2K against an unarmed person according to the rules.

By the rules if the aggressor is armed (e.g. Civil Protection Officer) and the victim is unarmed (e.g. Joe Rebel) S2K can be initiated without a /me, there is no rule that says you have to S2RP or agree to S2K, you *can* agree to S2RPing, but its usually up to the attacker as they will immediately start shooting.

 

[MCG]

By the rules if the aggressor is armed (e.g. Civil Protection Officer) and the victim is unarmed (e.g. Joe Rebel) S2K can be initiated without a /me, there is no rule that says you have to S2RP or agree to S2K, you *can* agree to S2RPing, but its usually up to the attacker as they will immediately start shooting.

That is not a great system, being subject to the attacker's decision to just blast you while you type and ask about it.

 

[boots]

That is not a great system, being subject to the attacker's decision to just blast you while you type and ask about it.

It's also against the rules to be shot at while you're typing, they should have the courtesy to let you finish performing/say

 

[Silta]

It's been nearly en entire month and nothing has come out of this and Divine has/is leaving. I don't see any changes being made or anything of value coming from this after so long.

 

[MCG]

It's also against the rules to be shot at while you're typing, they should have the courtesy to let you finish performing/say

Well, yes, but those rules are written such that they'll start shooting as soon as they send *their* /mes, if they don't just start shooting immediately without any /mes. They won't wait for you, and that's really not good.

I have my doubts such a thing would change, unfortunately. Nobody seems to have plans, so the S2K cycle continues. It just looks incredibly flawed.

 

[MazuzaM]

Well, yes, but those rules are written such that they'll start shooting as soon as they send *their* /mes, if they don't just start shooting immediately without any /mes. They won't wait for you, and that's really not good.

I have my doubts such a thing would change, unfortunately. Nobody seems to have plans, so the S2K cycle continues. It just looks incredibly flawed.

You don't have to write a /me to initiate S2K, that's old rulings, now everything is automated and sends an automatic /me the moment you start shooting

 

[MCG]

You don't have to write a /me to initiate S2K, that's old rulings, now everything is automated and sends an automatic /me the moment you start shooting

That wasn't my concern. In fact, that's the problem. People are just gonna start shooting to interrupt anyone that wants something else. There would be no time to ask about it.

 

[Divine]

I think this can be closed.