Give us a Break

[Acheif]

Mirroring the other post that's been slammed on the forums, We need a break.

Every time something happens, the rebels could be armed with a tooth-pick and-nail, and OTA seem to respond and wipe out the entire faction every time.

Loyalists,
Rebels,
And every faccet of the server experience a higher degree of interaction, roleplay, and immersion then the in the short 15-30 minutes OTA usually wipe out all RP in the face of their path. If cops were designed to oppress RP as opposed to create Oppressive RP, They're doing their job, but OTA Is excelling at it.

I don't know how many other people feel this way, but it no longer feels like a back and fourth; or even really motivated by roleplay, it's just one massive force looking to gain a new victory, and then the server pop goes down, It's half life so there will never be a winning side, but it's stupid to play a server like it's one side versus the other, when at the end of the day we're all trying to make a story.

that's all.

 

[Elsida]

@Curbalas @Armenian Union Please stay on topic and remain civil.

 

[Acheif]

As a player for anyone actually reading this, it's extremely frusterating.

I spend 140 About hours a week on gmod, to be honest with you. I put ALOT Of time and effort into the game and the server. Is it my fault? Yes! But is it a "Fun' and "Engaging' Experience too have your work, of days and character relations and build up and moreover; too cap it all off, your met with this lovely arrangement of people popping out of the woodwork.

I fail to understand how fish-baiting each other with rage and bullshit helps, I'm tired of it. It's fucking stupid and I'd like to be able to play the server without someone else wanting to play toys with army soldiers, If that's to much to ask let me know.

How am I supposed to feel? Am I alone here? I feel like we're in a god damn circus and just accepted reality, but it doesn't feel right. It feels disrespectful and like this server is being viewed as a TDM. What am I supposed to think? What could be weeks of intense detective rp is 30 seconds of gunfiight, Lame.

 

[Rabid]

It doesn't help that in their efforts to respond to the Liberators, OTA are breaching rules and it being aired publically that they are doing so while catching uninvolved rebels in the crossfire.

But to be frank? The Liberators are the end result of what Willard has been sliding towards in terms of RebelRP since late 2020. Shooting cops has been made the most fun and impactful thing you can do. Why push for rebels to get guns if not to use them, after all?

There was once an active and thriving CityRP scene where Rebels participated and people bragged about how fun it was, but that was crushed by people in power at the time who didn't want this to happen. The problem was nobody expected a rebel group to succeed the way the Liberators have in the aftermath.

 

[Goulashnikov]

I'm not kidding when I say either delete the "Underground" and "Security Council" discords or moderate them better. They're both circle jerks that spend 50% of their time talking about how much they just "OWNED" the other side and making memes about gunning each other down, and 50% of the time crying about whatever fight they just lost on the server and calling foul. They're enviornments that encourages Us vs Them behavior that is driving this S2K shit.

Edit: IDK if there is an official Willard CivPro discord but I have to assume it looks the same as the other two mentioned above.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

I'm not kidding when I say either delete the "Underground" and "Security Council" discords or moderate them better. They're both circle jerks that spend 50% of their time talking about how much they just "OWNED" the other side and making memes about gunning each other down, and 50% of the time crying about whatever fight they just lost on the server and calling foul. They're enviornments that encourages Us vs Them behavior that is driving this S2K shit.

Edit: IDK if there is an official Willard CivPro discord but I have to assume it looks the same as the other two mentioned above.

Rebel added to word blacklist.

 

[BrennenW05]

The problem is not "Rebel vs Combine". Both these groups have bad actors, who focus on S2K over rp.

The real problem is RPers vs S2Kers. and the staff who incentives being an S2Ker for both factions.

(I do enjoy a good s2k fight everyone once and awhile, it can be fun, if it has a purpose for a narrative. What is currently been happening over the last few months is mindless combat for its own sake.)

 

[Cocohop]

@Robert Please open the outlands server and have the S2K slop be moved there. Turn that place into a literal contested CvR location and people can vent there whenever they want, whilst keeping main for RP

EDIT: I have decided this is a silly idea.

 

[RileyTheRoomba]

@Robert Please open the outlands server and have the S2K slop be moved there. Turn that place into a literal contested CvR location and people can vent there whenever they want, whilst keeping main for RP

Is this the ideal solution? It’s a RP server. You shouldn’t need a secondary server to contain the undesirables. If someone is a problem, shouldn’t give them positive reinforcement in the form of their own personal stomping grounds.

If there is an issue that is adversely effecting the server, maybe it should be excised like a tumor, and thrown in the waistbin. A tall task regrettably, even though it really shouldn’t be.

 

[Rabid]

Is this the ideal solution? It’s a RP server. You shouldn’t need a secondary server to contain the undesirables. If someone is a problem, shouldn’t give them positive reinforcement in the form of their own personal stomping grounds.

If there is an issue that is adversely effecting the server, maybe it should be excised like a tumor, and thrown in the waistbin. A tall task regrettably, even though it really shouldn’t be.

I think even calling the "undesirables" is incredibly unfair, honestly.

Are some of The Liberators being intentionally disruptive to try and prove a point? Frankly, yeah probably a little. But that doesn't mean the issues they are exposing in the server aren't valid to bring up.

The Liberators were an inevitable endgame for what RebelRP was pushed to become in the past few years. It could have been any number of prior groups taking their place if they hadn't been wiped out before getting this powerful.

Getting a gun and shooting cops or important Combine-aligned collaborators is objectively the most rewarding thing for any rebel player who wants to "do" something to do. Nothing else comes close. Why bother with infiltration when you can't do anything with it? Why bother with blending in when there's nothing to do?

Guns used to be difficult to get and it used to be far more rewarding to blend in and do other things. Now it isn't, and getting guns is one of the best and easiest ways to feel like a proper rebel.

 

[Processed_Grain]

the issues they are exposing in the server aren't valid to bring up.

The Liberators are not 'exposing issues' in some meta-critque. They are actively perpetuating the 'issue'.

 

[Rabid]

The Liberators are not 'exposing issues' in some meta-critque. They are actively perpetuating the 'issue'.

I didn't say they are intentionally doing it as a meta-critique, but I'm saying the underlying things they have exposed shouldn't be ignored.

I mean what did people think was going to happen when cops are made to lose progress when they're shot and killed while simultaneously making guns and gear incredibly easy to get for rebels and disincentivizing reasons to come to the city and do things like infiltration or propaganda?

Willard has made it so guns are the easiest and most effective way to make lasting change against The Combine through the use of PK's and/or gunfights in general.

I could spend months and months sneaking around trying to infiltrate factions under the risk of meta or not being allowed to do 'x' thing, or I could shoot the guy I'm after in the face. Which seems like the more rewarding option that I know works?

I'm not denying what The Liberators do frustrates the hell out of people on all sides, but you can't reasonably blame them for doing exactly what they have been encouraged to do by the system.

The singular defence against this previously was PKing rebel groups before they got too powerful and that has failed here, so nobody has any clue how to handle a group like the Liberators anymore. Look at how far OTA have been willing to go - even breaching faction rules - to try and kill them off? Thats not right.

 

[Processed_Grain]

I didn't say they are intentionally doing it as a meta-critique, but I'm saying the underlying things they have exposed shouldn't be ignored.

I mean what did people think was going to happen when cops are made to lose progress when they're shot and killed while simultaneously making guns and gear incredibly easy to get for rebels and disincentivizing reasons to come to the city and do things like infiltration or propaganda?

Willard has made it so guns are the easiest and most effective way to make lasting change against The Combine through the use of PK's and/or gunfights in general.

I could spend months and months sneaking around trying to infiltrate factions under the risk of meta or not being allowed to do 'x' thing, or I could shoot the guy I'm after in the face. Which seems like the more rewarding option that I know works?

I'm not denying what The Liberators do frustrates the hell out of people on all sides, but you can't reasonably blame them for doing exactly what they have been encouraged to do by the system.

The singular defence against this previously was PKing rebel groups before they got too powerful and that has failed here, so nobody has any clue how to handle a group like the Liberators anymore. Look at how far OTA have been willing to go - even breaching faction rules - to try and kill them off? Thats not right.

I ''agree'', but do not make the Liberators out to be the victims here. They have acted, by far, the most bad faith in their actions out of anyone. This is a fact.

The problem lies in the system as much as it lies in the people upholding it, be they Rebel or Overwatch.

 

[Lab]

Both Combine and Liberators just need to OWN UP to the fact that they are contributing to a systematic rot in Willard. If you can't, the problem will continue! The fact of the matter is most of the server does not want the Liberators around. We don't want to dunk on you OOC'ly, we want change. So a little self-awareness here for the damage and uncertainty that's been caused would be appreciated, instead of knee-jerk -reacting every post that is critical of the Liberators.

Is there ANY concession the Liberator players are willing to make? I've seen such from the Combine side of things, but not them.

And to be quite honest, the incessance of the Liberator players to say "the rules were broken!" when they lose, but have a total lack of regard when such is the case when they win, is shocking. Just from an outsider's perspective I'm already being drawn toward one side of the argument just from the sheer bad faith that is stemming from one side of the room. If there's anything that contributes to this problem further, it's disingenuity, and OOC arrogance. It needs to stop. There needs to be honesty and empathy from both sides.

 

[melodicwaste]

Maybe it would all be better if my resolution was accepted to bring CvR slop to an end. But it wasn't. I personally proposed that we remove rifles and pulse rifles from main in exchange of removing OTA/OSA, but it was denied.

And yet your group still kept your pulse rifles and reignited a sweep lickity-split after a trade-in deal was already bartered, we're sick and tired of the CvR slop, and your rebel-group whether you like it or not is a huge proponent of that

You had nearly a week to trade-in your weapons, a *week*. Yet, you still kept them, still squad-wiped an entire group of Civil Protection and containment specialists, and then complained when OTA inevitably deployed, and got yourself PK'd. If you don't want a response from OTA/OSA, don't give CivPro a fight they can't deal with.

 

[Devistral]

When the combine sociostabilization readout looks like a Skrillex waveform if you turned it into a graph, you have a roleplay problem.

Did a quick comparison for earlier in the year and now, between May and July there were:
- 5 Sociostabilization Restoreds
- 11 Marginal Declerations
- 5 Unrest Declerations

Now compare that with August and September:
- 1 Sociostabilization Restoreds
- 10 Marginal Declerations
- 15 Unrest Declerations
- 10 Fractured Declerations
- 2 Judgement Waivers
- 3 Autonomous Judgements [1 of which was event team related]

In my opinion the rebel scene, after being able to kill-corridor numerous OTA and OSA squads, are now way too overpowered for regular combine players to even handle. In addition the lack of information provided to the staff team about UPRISING level events has caused more discourse than ever between loyalists and rebel players.

What this server needs is a hard reset for everyone and everything in my opinion, there's just no other option. Removing bio-weapons won't remove the resources rebels have accumulated. While I understand this takes a lot of effort to get in such a position, the server has become a 20 man rebel squad with OTA gear against a 5 man intention fives protection team.

Citizen RP is dead, CivPro RP is dead, CCA RP is suffering, OTA; a 'rare' event squad is now being used regularly, newgen rebel scene is suffering, Judgement Waivers aren't even rare or impactful anymore, and the only players benefitting from this are the end-game rebels which is like 10-20 people.

Combine players are demotivated because they have to fight rebels with SYNTHETIC AR2s [EXP-Variants] and then in response the new rebel players who are trying to build characters and learn are being screwed over by five OTA squads rushing their position.

 

[Rabid]

V3 should be a return to making weaponry and equipment difficult to get. Make it a grind and a commitment like it was for the first year after V1 launched.

Was it fun for everyone to grind? Honestly, probably not at all. But it did encourage rebels to do more topside stuff and made the city thrive because people had to seriously think about how they spent their time. There was also a thriving loyalist scene that rebels had an interest in infiltrating and keeping an eye on.

It also meant that when rebels eventually managed to organise and claim a portion of the map for a while with violence (granted this was after what I would call the "golden era" of CityRP) it was a huge deal and incredibly cool to see. Now I'm half convinced it could be pulled off in a few hours with the current gear situation.

 

[Cocohop]

When the combine sociostabilization readout looks like a Skrillex waveform if you turned it into a graph, you have a roleplay problem.

Did a quick comparison for earlier in the year and now, between May and July there were:
- 5 Sociostabilization Restoreds
- 11 Marginal Declerations
- 5 Unrest Declerations

Now compare that with August and September:
- 1 Sociostabilization Restoreds
- 10 Marginal Declerations
- 15 Unrest Declerations
- 10 Fractured Declerations
- 2 Judgement Waivers
- 3 Autonomous Judgements [1 of which was event team related]

In my opinion the rebel scene, after being able to kill-corridor numerous OTA and OSA squads, are now way too overpowered for regular combine players to even handle. In addition the lack of information provided to the staff team about UPRISING level events has caused more discourse than ever between loyalists and rebel players.

What this server needs is a hard reset for everyone and everything in my opinion, there's just no other option. Removing bio-weapons won't remove the resources rebels have accumulated. While I understand this takes a lot of effort to get in such a position, the server has become a 20 man rebel squad with OTA gear against a 5 man intention fives protection team.

Citizen RP is dead, CivPro RP is dead, CCA RP is suffering, OTA; a 'rare' event squad is now being used regularly, newgen rebel scene is suffering, Judgement Waivers aren't even rare or impactful anymore, and the only players benefitting from this are the end-game rebels which is like 10-20 people.

Combine players are demotivated because they have to fight rebels with SYNTHETIC AR2s [EXP-Variants] and then in response the new rebel players who are trying to build characters and learn are being screwed over by five OTA squads rushing their position.

I want to just add a caveat to this. I'm not a part of the liberators (I don't play anymore) but I don't think anyone really benefits from this situation. I don't even imagine it's fun to be them - hunted down by OTA so they are confined to base RP, except when they want to go out to kill someone and they do it en masse.

In my humble opinion, there is no 'rebel endgame' to be had. At least nothing that doesn't fuck over the rest of the server. This was an issue Gutsy raised last year (and I had incorrectly ignored it) and I can see it now.

So, again in my opinion, there are a few ways forward from here. Here they are and some thoughts about them.

1) Accept the lower quality server RP from now on.
This is an option. It is the one we are taking right now, and no one is happy about it.

2) Remove the gear from the rebels.
Of course, the economy reset Dev is talking about is the rebel economy (just to clear any confusion). This is also an option, and one we had done in Terminal 7. In my opinion, it's a bandaid. It stops problems for a while, but the core issue remains. No endgame.

3) Endgame - Expos
This is an option that will require a lot of work from ET. Creating a whole system or storyline using the expo server or the outlands server. An endgame filled with RP Expos. This way, main can remain as the more passive or slower paced / slow burn RP hub (as well as for planning), whilst the expo server is the place for killing.
Great solution. Unfortunately requires a number of GMs to be VERY dedicated.


4) Endgame - Main
This is an interesting option. But basically it's 'lighting the fuse' on the server. Letting it blow up as we approach the end of V2. Turning the resistance from more of an underground movement to something bigger, and having an all out territory war on the server. This COULD be interesting, but it could also increase the divide between 'the two playerbases' (sad that I even have to say that) even more.


5) An official rebel faction
I genuinely think this would help RP. The LFC was a botched attempt (unfortunately) at this. But a quality control system, even a whitelist (with perhaps IC ways of getting in?) would be really good, and a great way to enforce order into an otherwise lawless 'faction'. Unfortunately, I got too much push back and so didn't really push for this.

One last thought:
I really think we should stop blaming either side. Both sides have had their issues, but also both sides have many well respected people in the community. It's kind of human nature to want to stick to 'tribes' and blame 'the other'. But that's genuinely not useful. This is a systematic issue and a systematic solution needs to happen. Ideally, we should experiment with it now, so V3 can have it be ready on day one.
All the love to my combine friends and OWF Leads.

 

[Cavity]

As a rebel main, I got to give it to the civPro guys and girls who put up with shotcop ambushes and garrison wipes daily. Overwatch deployments should be extremely rare; and the fact that they are happening daily points to a bigger issue. Synthetic forces shouldn't even have to be deployed - they are ghosts from the old world.

While some might argue it is a rebel and civpro issue, I disagree. It's the rebel scene entirely, as civpro guys and Overwatch are a majority of the time reacting to what the rebels are doing, which is causing pure chaos and S2K madness. I find it frustrating when the main rebel groups on the server continually seek opportunities to attack Combine forces. It's just too much-they're always blowing up something or getting into gunfights.

The only solution I can see is for rebel leaders to get together and put an end to it. Essentially, ordering their troops to stand down unless authorized and the entire faction agrees to an attack. OR.... Overwatch should continue to sweep daily - HELL, HOURLY to wipe out some of the rebels, because there are some valid arguments in here that a big chunk of the scene is absolutely stacked. But performing an economic reset only stalls a bigger problem.

Send in the scary OTA goonsquad more often to kill everyone. It is the most logical conclusion if something like this kept occurring in an IRL scenario. But who am I?

The real battle is fought on the forums

 

[ford-michigan]

I mean what I have done recently is I have started to try to form a different group in the underground but instead have it have RP, laws, and not just shooting. While most other groups I see are hiding in bases with a ton of gear, shotcoping, then complaining when they loose most or all of it due to them being in the same area the whole time while being a big target.

 

[ford-michigan]

It seems like groups now are not for RP but for more loot for all the group members.