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Discussion how ass is my faction

nora

meatloaf
Gamemaster
Joined
Mar 28, 2023
Messages
366
the good and the bad of v3 civpro as you've seen it so far. what would you like to see more? what would you like to see less? what could be improved and what could be removed? why did my girlfriend leave me? i'm scared. no format but just be civilized xoxoxoxoxo

precinctsatelliteactivities4.png
 
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I really liked it. But I think my execution should've dragged on for longer. And I don't really like people using the gas masks, or black command tunics.
 
Here's my drunk view on it:

1. The perspective of still human CivPro, while it's still being formed, is a fresh idea that I approve. It's just that only a handful (Nora, me, Wraygun and King) are the only ones that made characters from actual CivPro, while the rest are goons. Way to fix? A cop from the goon squad that dies gets replaced with an outside district cop with some infraction that caused them to get relocated to outland duty, either for not adapting to the new changes fast enough or other serious infraction that's not big enough to get killed for it.

2. With the amount of side-arms and SMGs available in the game now, I hope to GOD that we will have another edition of alternative firearm redemption (AFR) perk. With the lack of OTA, OPA is taking their place for now but we still do not want to depend on them all the time whenever a rebel attack takes place, that was the issue with V2. With the AFR, I think we could mitigate the need for OPA deploying.

3. With all that happened during D1, I feel like we took a neutral stance far too often. While sure, it created RP, I hope that in the next part of the prologue, we'll stop being neutral.

That is all I have for now, I am awaiting my de-whitelist for criticizing the faction lead decisions in the coming days. (For legal reasons it is a joke)
 
I agree with the gasmasks thing, we should have it limited to the green-ish masks because we're meant to not really have the white ones. Uniforms I don't mind as much because I can see clothes being tossed at someone and saying "wear this".

Otherwise I've not had many issues, nor have many concerns minus some concerning roleplay moments which have already been talked about and assumedly handled. So far it's nice to play a cop that isn't a robocop or forced to be one. Of course that has to change over time but I hope we can try to keep the human element as the time goes on.
 
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I agree with the gasmasks thing, we should have it limited to the green-ish masks because we're meant to not really have the white ones. Uniforms I don't mind as much because I can see clothes being tossed at someone and saying "wear this".

Otherwise I've not had many issues, nor have many concerns minus some concerning roleplay moments which have already been talked about and assumedly handled. So far it's nice to play a cop that isn't a robocop or forced to be one. Of course that has to change over time but I hope we can try to keep the human element as the time goes on.
 
much better roleplay with unmasked cops
selling color printers
 
Right now the faction seems extremely uncentralised and giving an opinion on it is hard. We didn't see much of the integration part which I personally wanted the most as it would have been amazing to see how a gang operated police force starts to slowly refurbish as the modern civpro albeit still early in occupation and getting the hang of it. The D10 cops entered amazingly but, I feel like they didn't change much in the faction- It's as if they integrated into the precinct instead of the other way around. I don't believe we hold much influences other than major events nobody really finds us as early civpro. The experience was good purely because the players were good at roleplaying but the faction was stale and nothing really happened. IT should have shifted after the 2nd week because at the end, everything felt like it didn't matter much other than "We had our backs"

7/10 It was solid but the direction that it took upon was rather not in my personal taste and felt too stale.



PS. A lot of the things happening were mostly kept to the high command which out of a IC standpoint can be logical BUT - A lot of us didn't do much other than walk around and larp as cops, some staying AFK and such.

PS2. I feel like we're way too nice to everyone and then all of a sudden we start bashing heads from a riot then we're back at being nice to everyone, there's no conflict which in my opinion - Conflict is the motive for good screenwriting and without conflict there's nothing to do.

PS3. I personally like the gasmask + maskless combo from time to time, it gives the feeling to early civpro as it should be. I don't walk around 24/7 in my gasmask but I occasionally patrolled with it because why not- Make people believe that you're adapting but not fully. I say we should all freely use them given the scenarios.
 
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I have attempted to approach V3 Civil Protection with patience, charity, and an open mind.


This has been a mistake.


At present, Civil Protection is the worst faction on the server, and I do not mean that in the hysterical sense of “I had one bad interaction and now I am posting through it.” I mean it in the much more serious and objective sense that the faction has departed from several principles that were already settled during V2 and, frankly, should not have needed to be litigated again.


The main issue is individuality.


There is too much of it.


This is not really a matter of taste. The relationship between excessive CP individuality and declining faction quality has been established repeatedly, both through observation and through several studies I have just now invented.


The V2 Civil Protection Doctrine was very clear on this point:


“A unit should possess no more personality than is necessary to complete an arrest.”


This is from Section 4.2, “On Personality Creep.” I will not be linking it because everyone serious about the faction has already read it.


A Civil Protection unit should not feel like a normal person who has put on a uniform.


He should not be “John Smith, but now with a radio.”


He should not be the funny one, the nice one, the precinct weirdo, or the guy with twelve civilian friends and an ongoing personal rivalry with a noodle vendor.


He is a unit.


That is the point.


The mask is the character.


The number is the character.


The procedure is the character.


If I see a unit and immediately think, “Oh, that’s Dave,” then something has gone deeply wrong.


I should not know Dave.


Dave should be dead.


Not literally, obviously.


Institutionally.


Although V2 doctrine did famously state:


“Upon acceptance into Civil Protection, the applicant’s civilian identity is considered spiritually deceased.”


People laughed at that at the time. History has vindicated it.


V2 understood this because V2 Civil Protection actually felt like an institution.


You were not interacting with somebody’s OC.


You were interacting with Civil Protection.


An individual can be reasoned with. An individual can like you. An individual can remember your jokes.


An institution processes you.


That is the difference.


One of the major failures of V3 is that people seem to believe uniformity is somehow the enemy of roleplay.


This is nonsense.


Uniformity is what makes subtle characterization meaningful.


One unit is slightly impatient. Another is excessively formal. One barely speaks. Another hesitates before carrying out an order.


Those differences matter because there is a baseline.


If every unit is dramatically eccentric, then eccentricity stops meaning anything.


This is basic narrative theory.


Aristotle wrote about it, probably.


The V2 handbook summarized it more efficiently:


“If every unit is special, demote all of them.”


Again, I am paraphrasing only slightly.


Civil Protection should also be restrictive by design.


You lose your name.


You lose normal civilian relationships.


You lose social freedom.


You lose the expectation that everybody gets to know you personally.


You also lose roughly 22% of your peripheral vision, which is why Civil Protection units canonically cannot turn left very well.


This was confirmed in Raising the Bar, probably.


Restriction is not a flaw here. Restriction is the appeal.


If joining CP just means getting a uniform, a radio, and permission to continue playing the exact same kind of highly individualized character you were already playing, then what is the point?


You can say “citizen,” “verdict,” and “sociostability” every twelve seconds.


If you are still fundamentally playing Officer Kevin, local funnyman, none of it matters.


Civil Protection should also be more socially isolated.


Units should spend most of their time with other units.


Patrolling.


Working checkpoints.


Processing detainees.


Conducting searches.


Training.


Sitting in the precinct filling out forms nobody will ever read.


Anything except standing around for forty-five minutes talking to civilians like they are regulars at a neighborhood bar.


The V2 faction guide explicitly said:


“A metrocop speaking casually with a citizen for longer than seven minutes is either compromised or French.”


Was this unfair to French people?


Perhaps.


Was the underlying principle correct?


Completely.


You cannot spend half the day joking around with citizens and then expect those same people to suddenly treat you as an anonymous arm of an occupying regime because somebody stole a ration.


Tone does not work like that.


The same applies, to an extent, OOC.


No, I do not mean CP players should become antisocial hermits.


I mean there should be some mystery.


Citizens should not instantly know who plays every unit. Players should not constantly advertise their unit numbers. Ideally, I should interact with the same CP four times and still not know who is behind the mask.


The alternative is somebody typing three lines and everyone immediately going, “Oh, that’s Kevin.”


Fantastic.


Terrifying.


The Combine occupation has collapsed under the weight of Kevin’s recognizable punctuation.


I also want more standardized behavior.


More radio discipline.


More coordinated patrols.


More hierarchy.


More chain of command.


More units doing something because Civil Protection expects it rather than because it advances their personal storyline.


People ask “what would my character do?” far too often.


The more useful question is:


“What would a Civil Protection unit be expected to do?”


This is the consensus of every serious CP theorist, of whom there are currently somewhere between zero and three.


If your character wants to let someone go but procedure says arrest them, good.


You have found conflict.


You do not need a twelve-line /me about how the unit remembers his father teaching him mercy beside a fireplace in 1997.


Pause.


Arrest the guy.


Move on.


Congratulations.


You have successfully roleplayed internal conflict without requiring six bystanders to participate in your MFA thesis.


And yes, V2 had problems.


V2 had bad RP.


V2 had bad players.


V2 had nonsense.


At one point Civil Protection controlled most of the Belgian coastline and nobody has adequately explained why.


But the philosophy was better.


In V2, the player disappeared into the faction.


In V3, the faction disappears into the player.


That is backwards.


Not every unit needs to be memorable.


Some should be boring.


I mean that sincerely.


Unit 319 should be allowed to simply be procedural, competent, and completely unremarkable.


Not every Civil Protection character needs to be written like HBO has entered a bidding war for the adaptation rights.


Sometimes a metrocop can just do his job.


Civil Protection exists to shape the environment more than it exists to make every CP player feel like the protagonist.


A patrol walks through the plaza.


A checkpoint closes.


Someone gets searched.


A door gets kicked in.


A citizen disappears into the precinct.


Nobody explains anything to you.


Good.


You do not need the director’s commentary.


I do not need Officer Greg to come back ten minutes later and explain that the raid was emotionally difficult for him.


I do not need Greg’s backstory.


I do not need Greg’s playlist.


I do not need Greg’s carrd.


I need Greg to stop being Greg.


That is the job.


So what do I actually want?


More uniformity, anonymity, procedure, hierarchy, faction separation, coordinated patrols, radio discipline, and institutional identity.


Less buddy-cop RP, main-character syndrome, constant citizen friendships, personal grudges driving enforcement, gimmick units, and every promotion becoming the emotional climax of a prestige television drama.


Most importantly, I want the philosophy of V2 back.


Not every rule.


Not every mechanic.


Not every weird habit.


The philosophy.


The basic understanding that Civil Protection is strongest when the individual disappears into the uniform.


V2 understood this.


V3 has somehow reopened a debate that should have been closed years ago.


Also, regarding why your girlfriend left you:


The answer is fairly obvious.


The V2 Doctrine explicitly warns that “continued exposure to excessively individualized metrocop RP may result in romantic abandonment, hair loss, and administrative demotion.”


You ignored the literature.


This is the result.


xoxoxoxoxo
 
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This is coming as a comment to *Omega's* post (Though beware I didn't read the entire thing so forgive me if I missed out on something or completely spoke out on the wrong side of my feedback)

Part 2 of my review regarding how the precinct/civpro should operate in my personal experience from other communities and my own ideas regarding the fact.

-

The faction should focus not on the debate whether someone is too humane and fraternizing or too robocop but rather the faction should prioritize on "Professionalism". Sure the faction as an insitution can have it's IC protocols of "Don't fraternize, don't speak out of radio codes etc" but the ideal center for either too left or too right is to merely request IC'ly players to be professional about their job, which means you don't have to always choose the option to follow your faction's IC rules but that doesn't mean you cannot create your own initiative to perform your duty.

Example - You know you have to beat him because it's apart of the protocols 'in character' but you don't have to always do it. Give him a stern verbal warning or beat him with lesser strikes. In the end you didn't follow protocol because your character didn't want to beat someone but you gave them a verbal warning with authority which technically in a sense, you still did your job. Lets agree that Dispatch doesn't punish you because you still upheld your duty.


We can have a wide imagination of how to deal with certain scenarios without being a robocop or too friendly as that is mostly what breaks the immersion for the normal player. Be creative and allow yourself to think before instantly acting.


PS (lmao) this is probably for when the faction does fully integrate into civpro.
 
I have attempted to approach V3 Civil Protection with patience, charity, and an open mind.


This has been a mistake.


At present, Civil Protection is the worst faction on the server, and I do not mean that in the hysterical sense of “I had one bad interaction and now I am posting through it.” I mean it in the much more serious and objective sense that the faction has departed from several principles that were already settled during V2 and, frankly, should not have needed to be litigated again.


The main issue is individuality.


There is too much of it.


This is not really a matter of taste. The relationship between excessive CP individuality and declining faction quality has been established repeatedly, both through observation and through several studies I have just now invented.


The V2 Civil Protection Doctrine was very clear on this point:


“A unit should possess no more personality than is necessary to complete an arrest.”


This is from Section 4.2, “On Personality Creep.” I will not be linking it because everyone serious about the faction has already read it.


A Civil Protection unit should not feel like a normal person who has put on a uniform.


He should not be “John Smith, but now with a radio.”


He should not be the funny one, the nice one, the precinct weirdo, or the guy with twelve civilian friends and an ongoing personal rivalry with a noodle vendor.


He is a unit.


That is the point.


The mask is the character.


The number is the character.


The procedure is the character.


If I see a unit and immediately think, “Oh, that’s Dave,” then something has gone deeply wrong.


I should not know Dave.


Dave should be dead.


Not literally, obviously.


Institutionally.


Although V2 doctrine did famously state:


“Upon acceptance into Civil Protection, the applicant’s civilian identity is considered spiritually deceased.”


People laughed at that at the time. History has vindicated it.


V2 understood this because V2 Civil Protection actually felt like an institution.


You were not interacting with somebody’s OC.


You were interacting with Civil Protection.


An individual can be reasoned with. An individual can like you. An individual can remember your jokes.


An institution processes you.


That is the difference.


One of the major failures of V3 is that people seem to believe uniformity is somehow the enemy of roleplay.


This is nonsense.


Uniformity is what makes subtle characterization meaningful.


One unit is slightly impatient. Another is excessively formal. One barely speaks. Another hesitates before carrying out an order.


Those differences matter because there is a baseline.


If every unit is dramatically eccentric, then eccentricity stops meaning anything.


This is basic narrative theory.


Aristotle wrote about it, probably.


The V2 handbook summarized it more efficiently:


“If every unit is special, demote all of them.”


Again, I am paraphrasing only slightly.


Civil Protection should also be restrictive by design.


You lose your name.


You lose normal civilian relationships.


You lose social freedom.


You lose the expectation that everybody gets to know you personally.


You also lose roughly 22% of your peripheral vision, which is why Civil Protection units canonically cannot turn left very well.


This was confirmed in Raising the Bar, probably.


Restriction is not a flaw here. Restriction is the appeal.


If joining CP just means getting a uniform, a radio, and permission to continue playing the exact same kind of highly individualized character you were already playing, then what is the point?


You can say “citizen,” “verdict,” and “sociostability” every twelve seconds.


If you are still fundamentally playing Officer Kevin, local funnyman, none of it matters.


Civil Protection should also be more socially isolated.


Units should spend most of their time with other units.


Patrolling.


Working checkpoints.


Processing detainees.


Conducting searches.


Training.


Sitting in the precinct filling out forms nobody will ever read.


Anything except standing around for forty-five minutes talking to civilians like they are regulars at a neighborhood bar.


The V2 faction guide explicitly said:


“A metrocop speaking casually with a citizen for longer than seven minutes is either compromised or French.”


Was this unfair to French people?


Perhaps.


Was the underlying principle correct?


Completely.


You cannot spend half the day joking around with citizens and then expect those same people to suddenly treat you as an anonymous arm of an occupying regime because somebody stole a ration.


Tone does not work like that.


The same applies, to an extent, OOC.


No, I do not mean CP players should become antisocial hermits.


I mean there should be some mystery.


Citizens should not instantly know who plays every unit. Players should not constantly advertise their unit numbers. Ideally, I should interact with the same CP four times and still not know who is behind the mask.


The alternative is somebody typing three lines and everyone immediately going, “Oh, that’s Kevin.”


Fantastic.


Terrifying.


The Combine occupation has collapsed under the weight of Kevin’s recognizable punctuation.


I also want more standardized behavior.


More radio discipline.


More coordinated patrols.


More hierarchy.


More chain of command.


More units doing something because Civil Protection expects it rather than because it advances their personal storyline.


People ask “what would my character do?” far too often.


The more useful question is:


“What would a Civil Protection unit be expected to do?”


This is the consensus of every serious CP theorist, of whom there are currently somewhere between zero and three.


If your character wants to let someone go but procedure says arrest them, good.


You have found conflict.


You do not need a twelve-line /me about how the unit remembers his father teaching him mercy beside a fireplace in 1997.


Pause.


Arrest the guy.


Move on.


Congratulations.


You have successfully roleplayed internal conflict without requiring six bystanders to participate in your MFA thesis.


And yes, V2 had problems.


V2 had bad RP.


V2 had bad players.


V2 had nonsense.


At one point Civil Protection controlled most of the Belgian coastline and nobody has adequately explained why.


But the philosophy was better.


In V2, the player disappeared into the faction.


In V3, the faction disappears into the player.


That is backwards.


Not every unit needs to be memorable.


Some should be boring.


I mean that sincerely.


Unit 319 should be allowed to simply be procedural, competent, and completely unremarkable.


Not every Civil Protection character needs to be written like HBO has entered a bidding war for the adaptation rights.


Sometimes a metrocop can just do his job.


Civil Protection exists to shape the environment more than it exists to make every CP player feel like the protagonist.


A patrol walks through the plaza.


A checkpoint closes.


Someone gets searched.


A door gets kicked in.


A citizen disappears into the precinct.


Nobody explains anything to you.


Good.


You do not need the director’s commentary.


I do not need Officer Greg to come back ten minutes later and explain that the raid was emotionally difficult for him.


I do not need Greg’s backstory.


I do not need Greg’s playlist.


I do not need Greg’s carrd.


I need Greg to stop being Greg.


That is the job.


So what do I actually want?


More uniformity, anonymity, procedure, hierarchy, faction separation, coordinated patrols, radio discipline, and institutional identity.


Less buddy-cop RP, main-character syndrome, constant citizen friendships, personal grudges driving enforcement, gimmick units, and every promotion becoming the emotional climax of a prestige television drama.


Most importantly, I want the philosophy of V2 back.


Not every rule.


Not every mechanic.


Not every weird habit.


The philosophy.


The basic understanding that Civil Protection is strongest when the individual disappears into the uniform.


V2 understood this.


V3 has somehow reopened a debate that should have been closed years ago.


Also, regarding why your girlfriend left you:


The answer is fairly obvious.


The V2 Doctrine explicitly warns that “continued exposure to excessively individualized metrocop RP may result in romantic abandonment, hair loss, and administrative demotion.”


You ignored the literature.


This is the result.


xoxoxoxoxo
While I agree with this...
This is the start of V3, before the start of V3 in fact.

'Civil Protection' as we know it doesn't exist in the form of the anonymous super-state structure yet.

The Precinct is the closest thing. The Precinct was advertised as a gang of thugs, individuals, with stories that both expressed support and disdain for the Combine.

Yes, of course, when we get to the point that total anonymity of the character is required to maintain the super-state structure, I think we should follow that philosophy.

But right now, individuals are just individuals. People trying to survive in a post-invasion world with massive distrust to the slowly forming Combine state.

Otherwise, I agree with this.

IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAID HERE, I'M A DIMBASS.
 
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This is coming as a comment to *Omega's* post (Though beware I didn't read the entire thing so forgive me if I missed out on something or completely spoke out on the wrong side of my feedback)

Part 2 of my review regarding how the precinct/civpro should operate in my personal experience from other communities and my own ideas regarding the fact.

-

The faction should focus not on the debate whether someone is too humane and fraternizing or too robocop but rather the faction should prioritize on "Professionalism". Sure the faction as an insitution can have it's IC protocols of "Don't fraternize, don't speak out of radio codes etc" but the ideal center for either too left or too right is to merely request IC'ly players to be professional about their job, which means you don't have to always choose the option to follow your faction's IC rules but that doesn't mean you cannot create your own initiative to perform your duty.

Example - You know you have to beat him because it's apart of the protocols 'in character' but you don't have to always do it. Give him a stern verbal warning or beat him with lesser strikes. In the end you didn't follow protocol because your character didn't want to beat someone but you gave them a verbal warning with authority which technically in a sense, you still did your job. Lets agree that Dispatch doesn't punish you because you still upheld your duty.


We can have a wide imagination of how to deal with certain scenarios without being a robocop or too friendly as that is mostly what breaks the immersion for the normal player. Be creative and allow yourself to think before instantly acting.


PS (lmao) this is probably for when the faction does fully integrate into civpro.
This is too long, and I can’t read. Skipped!
 
This is too long, and I can’t read. Skipped!
Pretty much lmao. Again forgive me but I was eager to just post things and some of your initial comments gave me the idea of the part 2 feedback. I technically agree with your statements but with a glimmer of my own seasonings


Edit - I just realised that I said "I agree with your statements"


bruh
 
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As you seem like a Deltarune enthusiast given your pfp, I think this is most appropriate.
(And yes, I have learned the basics of Photopea just to make this)
faction_to_thrash_your_own_ass.png
 
Valeto said pretty much everything that I wanted to say. Cops should have a degree of IC professionalism when it comes to implementing protocols, but I think every character should be able to make an educated judgement for themselves whether or not they should apply the charges.

I won't regurgitate what's been written already, but I want to say that it adds an incredible depth to characters, their personalities.

In the end, the current roster will not suffer from the usual V2 complaint thread that is about "cops are too x", and that is largely due to the overall tone of the faction, which is based on a "roleplay first" mindset. Do not change the overall demeanour of cops, keep them as they are, and implement minor QOL changes. Such as having each cop buy their equipment for example. The faction is in a very good shape, and you guys have essentially lightning in a bottle.
 
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I only like the faction because @Czesui is in it.

And I also like the faction because @ItsLiam is not in the faction, while I wish that @ItsLiam could be in the faction. But who knows who might accept @ItsLiam in the future, as @ItsLiam is a professional S2KER, and we all know that the biggest issue with the Union-sided faction is the lack of pro-PVP individuals similar to @ItsLiam.
Therefore I encourage the inclusion of @ItsLiam and the direct acceptance of @ItsLiam into the faction.

Very thanks you very much, big credit to @ItsLiam for the inspiration about this feedback around @ItsLiam future.
 
I only like the faction because @Czesui is in it.
Czesui isn't in the faction.

Oh yeah, I also got a few complaints.

The radios. THE FUCKING RADIOS.

THESE FUCKING RADIOS CAN'T STAY ALIVE FOR MORE THAN 30 FUCKING MINUTES CAN WE PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SWAP TO TAC-3 FOR PART 2 OF THE PROLOGUE

We didn't see much of the integration part which I personally wanted the most as it would have been amazing to see how a gang operated police force starts to slowly refurbish as the modern civpro albeit still early in occupation and getting the hang of it. The D10 cops entered amazingly but, I feel like they didn't change much in the faction- It's as if they integrated into the precinct instead of the other way around.

That, I agree with. I feel like the D10 cops were supposed to be here to integrate us into the CivPro, not become part of the gang and rebel against the captaincy, even though... one of the cops from D10 PLAYS the captain. Also as a D10 cop now I feel largely excluded when Nora and her other D10 goons go scheming but it's an IC thing so myeh
The experience was good purely because the players were good at roleplaying but the faction was stale and nothing really happened. IT should have shifted after the 2nd week because at the end, everything felt like it didn't matter much other than "We had our backs"

PS. A lot of the things happening were mostly kept to the high command which out of a IC standpoint can be logical BUT - A lot of us didn't do much other than walk around and larp as cops, some staying AFK and such.
Again, my point on neutrality, if we want the precinct to see some actual policing we gotta stop being neutral. I'm not saying we have to become robocops but the Lieutenants have to start telling us to police more, other than just "oh, it doesn't involve us ignore it" type of deal.

If things don't change with neutrality I'll kill another railroader, I swear to god.
 
Forget everything that was said on here, reinstate Eviction Notice, Genny and RyanGearPermer as the headcops and reactivate the MCP to behead cops who dare to toe over the line.
 
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