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This is kinda cool, maybe we could make smth similar.
https://streamable.com/c8x03
https://streamable.com/c8x03
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Shoot 2 Kill: The worst combat system for HL2RP.
- Thread starter Equinox
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Sectus
salad
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I cannot believe this! The archaeologists that undercovered an ancient video deep in some temple in epgpyt has just come back to us once again, finding even more goodies. Now that have found a second iteration of such ancient power all stored within this one gift:
I can't believe they did it again. Truly such things have been hidden to us for years now.
I can't believe they did it again. Truly such things have been hidden to us for years now.
Sectus
salad
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D
Deleted member 56
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the turn-based combat system looks cool but i don't think it'll work in practice
if you're not gonna use s2rp then just go along with s2k
if you're not gonna use s2rp then just go along with s2k
DanteeZe
wtf
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Dunno what you ppl are on about.... But hey guys I just found this cool thing
hEy gUyS I jUst fOUnD thIs NeW CoOL thING
D
Deleted member 56
Guest
to add onto this, the turn-based combat system looks really cool and i appreciate the effort the devs have put into making it, but i feel like it won't work on this gamemode, and from what i've heard a large portion of people just prefer s2k over the turn-based combat, even if it's able to be turned off in the server settings
it won't work on a larger scale and will probably only work in 1v1 scenarios
s2rp is the best though
Chez
vortigaunt king
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a large portion of people also have an iq under 90
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good thing you fit into that bracket chez!
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The reason some people prefer S2K is because they can win easily with no effort at all. Issues with S2K have been discussed plenty, same with S2M and same with S2RP. They are all equally as flawed as each other. That's not to say turn-based isn't flawed as they could easily be some issues which if you happen to take part in the discord conversations, this would be known and was already discussed. Also, I wouldn't say the large portion of people prefer it when the majority of the posts on here are just outright bashing S2K for the awful system it is.
Anyway, S2K relies too much on someone's skill... nothing to do with their character. Turning what would be a normal, inexperienced and malnourished citizen into a fully grown special operations soldier going in all Rambo style and gunning everyone down. It is unfair to players who do not play FPS games often, while Gmod itself does fall under an FPS game, it is not exactly focused on that and more or less a sandbox building game as was originally intended now filled with tons of fun and interesting game modes. But S2K has been looked at and was originally going to be used until the turn-based system came along, then we decided it is best to throw it out the game mode entirely as it is not roleplay friendly nor does it belong in an RP game mode and it is unfair to unskilled FPS players, giving those CS;GO pros the advantage above all. So in the end, S2K is not coming back.
S2M, don't need to say much. Was awful, already been thrown out by all communities... it is dead. Reasons are obvious.
S2RP, finally... a system which is better than S2M and S2K but still not as good as it could be. Though I find it to be more preferable than both. For this one, I am just going to give some pros and cons to it as it is not bad in all honesty.
Pros:
Pros:
Anyway, S2K relies too much on someone's skill... nothing to do with their character. Turning what would be a normal, inexperienced and malnourished citizen into a fully grown special operations soldier going in all Rambo style and gunning everyone down. It is unfair to players who do not play FPS games often, while Gmod itself does fall under an FPS game, it is not exactly focused on that and more or less a sandbox building game as was originally intended now filled with tons of fun and interesting game modes. But S2K has been looked at and was originally going to be used until the turn-based system came along, then we decided it is best to throw it out the game mode entirely as it is not roleplay friendly nor does it belong in an RP game mode and it is unfair to unskilled FPS players, giving those CS;GO pros the advantage above all. So in the end, S2K is not coming back.
S2M, don't need to say much. Was awful, already been thrown out by all communities... it is dead. Reasons are obvious.
S2RP, finally... a system which is better than S2M and S2K but still not as good as it could be. Though I find it to be more preferable than both. For this one, I am just going to give some pros and cons to it as it is not bad in all honesty.
Pros:
- Slow-paced and relaxed
- Actually involves Roleplay (Unlike S2K and S2M)
- Everyone is on an equal playing field
- Action success can be random (if rolls are in use or even sometimes in play to logic)
- Lots of arguments and drama
- A requirement of supervision from a staff member (70% of the time as no one can grow up and accept defeat)
- Time scaling issues when backup comes, other players come along and attempt to join in, etc...
- Can sometimes be too slow due to slow typers
- Turns can sometimes be done wrong. (Someone can take their turn when they aren't supposed to
- Sometimes hard to tell who is going next and who is who (Requires a bit of OOC communications)
Pros:
- Uses character stats
- Involves roleplay (During your turn, you have time to do your /me's and speak
- Equal playing field
- Action success is random
- Time scaling is not an issue
- You know whose turn it is
- No admin supervision required
- Slow-paced and relaxed
- Time-limit on turns means slow typers won't slow down the combat, they may just need to get used to doing smaller actions and not trying to write anything more than necessary. Around 1 minute or so in their turn should be enough time? Maybe?
- You can still surprise people with sudden combat, getting the first few hits in. (Suprise attacks, just like you can do in S2RP... and even S2K)
- In short, it keeps the good parts of S2RP within it and solves some of the issues with S2RP
- Shouldn't have any arguments or drama surrounding combat between people.. though who knows...
- Might not work on a large scale as you pointed out Mateozz though putting this in unsure as not quite sure in what scenario this may apply to or what you may be referring to when you say it may not work in such a scale, seeing as Turn-based has always been quite fair and workable on large scales as seen in plenty of other games. So I will allow you to expand upon this point if you want.
- People who are stat grinding have an advantage (Though this is being fixed by Equinox, so we will wait and see how that goes)
- This basically just means attribute whoring
D
Deleted member 56
Guest
only thing that really requires staff supervision, honestly, and not all of the time
yes, they can, most of the time. and if they can't, then it can be easily solved by a staff member
not at all, just requires a bit of communication in looc
happens in every roleplay scenario, can't blame anyone for it
can be easily solved in looc
again, requires a bit of looc communication, as you've said
useless -- character stats shouldn't determine if you win a fight or not
from what i've seen, even fighting a zombie engages you in the turn-based combat, which is kinda pointless, no? usually you'd just spray it down and be done with it since npc zombies are an annoyance most of the time
not to add that you can be pulled into the turn based combat even if you don't want to, for example, you're walking towards the rebel area and suddenly you're pulled into combat because someone's fighting
i doubt it will work in scenarios like sweeps, and not to mention events, which in my opinion should have s2rp combat by default. s2k has its fair bit of problems and relies on skill, but if you make the damage values more realistic, it won't rely on skill so heavily, and generally most people will be able to use it without any problems. for example;
single headshot kills an unarmed person, two headshot kill a unit, etc
a large portion of people prefer s2k over the turn-based combat system because they see how flawed it is, at least that's what i've gathered from speaking to a few individuals
thank you for coming to my ted talk
Vλgaβoηđ
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I can't believe the convo is still going on about this.
Half-Life 2 Roleplay. It's roleplay, first and foremost, it's in the title.
Your official wiki definition:
A role-playing game is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.
S2K turns this into a *insert any generic arcade FPS multiplayer game*, which contradicts to the whole roleplay aspect from the ground up, including the "relaxed and slow paced" part, in case people forgot. They are on two opposite sides of the spectrum. But not only that, Source engine simply cannot support all your unreasonably high expectations and possibilities of it's abilities. Secretly, everyone (actually the "majority") thinks Source can handle being an accurate simulation of combat, all while at the same time having the roleplay depth of your TTRPG D&D sessions, but it can't, newsflash to all those that can't understand.
That's why we have a separation in the game industry of military and non-military simulations, which are also separated further into subcategories (plane, train, cooking etc.). If we don't have games that have the best of both worlds, a sort of complete RTFPSRPG, what makes you think that a nearly 14 year old game on a solid but archaic engine would handle it?
ArmA has Serious RP, but it doesn't have the depth of a true RP, even if the players act realistically, because in the end, it's a combat sim, not an RPG. Fallout 3 and onward series and similar games have RPG elements at it's core, like The Outer Worlds, but nearly all of them can't be considered combat sims, or even have realistically simulated combat. The closest right now to being a combination of both is Star Citizen, Escape From Tarkov and Project Zomboid.
Star Citizen is a pipe dream money sink with make a "huge living galaxy" goal. Escape From Tarkov has RPG stats, but the majority aren't implemented, and you are still playing as an experienced fighter. Project Zomboid is a top-down game, with similar gameplay to how a standard RPG would work, but it's pretense is realism, however it's still TDP.
So you'd want a mixed combat system from Tarkov/Arma, while having the variety/progress/stat effects from Zomboid, all while playing it on Source? Guess what, you can't have it. Because it's more profitable to create a game like that from the ground up, instead of gluing as a new addon on top of Source, and especially Garry's Mod. Why? Because such a game (and the combat features) would be of a Triple-A title caliber, that and it is impossible due to engine limitations and the lag it can induce, even if successful, on the server. Which again tell me about reaction to lag in an ordinary CS match, and now imagine that in a game where you technically have 1-life, on which you worked on.
Weapon accuracy? Just to make that, there are dozens upon dozens of parameters that need to be accounted for to simulate accurately all the possible ways the near infinite amount of characters can handle it. Starting from simply seeing the gun for the first time to ending with the composure of the character holding it, and that's before even going to the combinations it should interact with along the different weapons and their stats.
Don't want that much detail? Well sorry, but if you want roleplay depth of D&D levels with ArmA's realistic combat, you'd have to account for all these things, if you want accurate and fair characters that won't and can't Rambo out of the blue without admin supervision, because their stats inhibit their actions. Otherwise we get "SPECIAL and Skill" stats, since it's easier from a programming standpoint to write a small code that dictates a hit or miss by accounting for a 1-to-10(0) stat check, than making a multi-page code wall that takes into account Coriolis effect with the characters breath control and psychological state.
And as for rooting for S2K, it only shows the mindset such players come with when playing on a HL2RP server, which in of itself should be a warning sign. The new turn-based system is chosen as the default, and if it annoys, or better, gets rid of S2Kers, then it's only a blessing.
Half-Life 2 Roleplay. It's roleplay, first and foremost, it's in the title.
Your official wiki definition:
A role-playing game is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.
S2K turns this into a *insert any generic arcade FPS multiplayer game*, which contradicts to the whole roleplay aspect from the ground up, including the "relaxed and slow paced" part, in case people forgot. They are on two opposite sides of the spectrum. But not only that, Source engine simply cannot support all your unreasonably high expectations and possibilities of it's abilities. Secretly, everyone (actually the "majority") thinks Source can handle being an accurate simulation of combat, all while at the same time having the roleplay depth of your TTRPG D&D sessions, but it can't, newsflash to all those that can't understand.
That's why we have a separation in the game industry of military and non-military simulations, which are also separated further into subcategories (plane, train, cooking etc.). If we don't have games that have the best of both worlds, a sort of complete RTFPSRPG, what makes you think that a nearly 14 year old game on a solid but archaic engine would handle it?
ArmA has Serious RP, but it doesn't have the depth of a true RP, even if the players act realistically, because in the end, it's a combat sim, not an RPG. Fallout 3 and onward series and similar games have RPG elements at it's core, like The Outer Worlds, but nearly all of them can't be considered combat sims, or even have realistically simulated combat. The closest right now to being a combination of both is Star Citizen, Escape From Tarkov and Project Zomboid.
Star Citizen is a pipe dream money sink with make a "huge living galaxy" goal. Escape From Tarkov has RPG stats, but the majority aren't implemented, and you are still playing as an experienced fighter. Project Zomboid is a top-down game, with similar gameplay to how a standard RPG would work, but it's pretense is realism, however it's still TDP.
So you'd want a mixed combat system from Tarkov/Arma, while having the variety/progress/stat effects from Zomboid, all while playing it on Source? Guess what, you can't have it. Because it's more profitable to create a game like that from the ground up, instead of gluing as a new addon on top of Source, and especially Garry's Mod. Why? Because such a game (and the combat features) would be of a Triple-A title caliber, that and it is impossible due to engine limitations and the lag it can induce, even if successful, on the server. Which again tell me about reaction to lag in an ordinary CS match, and now imagine that in a game where you technically have 1-life, on which you worked on.
Weapon accuracy? Just to make that, there are dozens upon dozens of parameters that need to be accounted for to simulate accurately all the possible ways the near infinite amount of characters can handle it. Starting from simply seeing the gun for the first time to ending with the composure of the character holding it, and that's before even going to the combinations it should interact with along the different weapons and their stats.
Don't want that much detail? Well sorry, but if you want roleplay depth of D&D levels with ArmA's realistic combat, you'd have to account for all these things, if you want accurate and fair characters that won't and can't Rambo out of the blue without admin supervision, because their stats inhibit their actions. Otherwise we get "SPECIAL and Skill" stats, since it's easier from a programming standpoint to write a small code that dictates a hit or miss by accounting for a 1-to-10(0) stat check, than making a multi-page code wall that takes into account Coriolis effect with the characters breath control and psychological state.
And as for rooting for S2K, it only shows the mindset such players come with when playing on a HL2RP server, which in of itself should be a warning sign. The new turn-based system is chosen as the default, and if it annoys, or better, gets rid of S2Kers, then it's only a blessing.
D
Deleted member 56
Guest
i don't think the people who are advocating for replacing the turn-based combat system with s2k are fans of it in the first place, in all honesty, my friend, they just think it's generally smoother and less troublesome
in an ideal world we'd have s2rp by default, but we won't, so we'll just go with the easiest and best solution
if it isn't gonna be replaced then at least make s2rp the default combat system for events
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