Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Notices NEW CHANGE, NEW ERA - EXECUTIVE ORDER NO.06

To sum it up, this 'order' was extremely poorly thought out and the only reason it was made, as far as I see it, was only to try and punish people who were primarily in the slums doing RP.

What people who think of these don't seem to understand, that rebel RP has so much attraction because there will ALWAYS be someone to rp. As people above mentioned, in the city, you're lucky to find a cop who can actually engage with you IC, and not just sit around and be basic copper who tells you to go fuck yourself number one billion.

Make it more incentivizing for people to actually try and become loyalists, offer new benefits to lower tiers within reason, I don't know, do anything but give people even MORE reason to completely abandon citizen RP and just gravitate permanently to rebel rp.
I've given it many attempts to try and roleplay in the city, but it is horrendously boring. Workshifts happen once every five hours and end in ten minutes. Is this supposed to be fun in any regard? Conversations can only be forced on for so long, until it becomes awkward.
 
The blunt truth is WN is like any big community before it, regardless of how hard it tried to tell itself it wasn't going to be. Even Swagile, someone who made fairly scathing critiques a year or two ago on Neb over certain choices, has gotten to the point where he's now the one having to make those same decisions himself.

Because that's how a community like this has to run. Its not a jab against him by any means, I feel bad for him because I know exactly what it is like.

I've given it many attempts to try and roleplay in the city, but it is horrendously boring. Workshifts happen once every five hours and end in ten minutes. Is this supposed to be fun in any regard? Conversations can only be forced on for so long, until it becomes awkward.

The city is fantastic when everyone comes together - when you have people going to-and-from the slums, when gangs are operating and there's a thriving "ecosystem" on all levels. It is genuinely a hundred thousand times more interesting than RebelRP will ever be, because RebelRP on its own can never sustain a server. RebelRP is dull as fuck, and 90% of the gangs mentioned above by other posters were only as fun because they worked inside the city as well and did shit like advocate for the slums to be a loyalist free zone, etc.

The problem is that it is very easy to make it so RebelRP (and so criminal and slums roleplay) can stand apart from the city and exist in its own bubble. This then absolutely kills the city because the city without an antagonist becomes a slog of factions that have very little reason to interact with one another.

The idea that "CityRP is boring!" is true if you do exactly what WN has accidentally done and made it viable for RebelRP to exist without the need for the city, so people have every reason to flock there.
 
I've given it many attempts to try and roleplay in the city, but it is horrendously boring.
The cheat code to City RP is the chess board at the RDT.

As for the order it would be interesting to see if this distaste manages to metastasize into any IC riots, but from the sound of it people seem to be growing swiftly disheartened.

The forced armband part of the deal I find already makes it potentially dangerous to go to the slums as a tiered loyalist anyway. The extra threat of Civil Protection slapping your points down comes across as a bit too much pressure to keep the city flowing.

Roleplay presumably is at its best when the server optimizes for more chance encounters and meetings, and this certainly seems to undermine that.
 
Merlin said something like this, but there's this fatal flaw that I've seen here and in other city RP servers where the main actors fail to 'prolongate' conflict, instead take an easy W for their faction, then stop playing a week later because they killed the only reason why they were having fun in the first place.
For the past couple of weeks I've seen any citizen that tried to make some lite conflict outside of Indigent be executed as soon as possible by CPs like they're as dangerous as the rebels that blew up CP1, so of course there's nothing happening in Victory or even in Triumph. Why take a risk and do something interesting when cops are just gonna beline for a PK like they're itching for it.
 
Politics RP is boring because it's missing why politics are addictive irl. Which is hatred

I served as a Councilman for my town for 2 legislatures, what keeps you there is a primal sense of infighting. City Rp is unironically boring because there's no democratic proccess. With the whole CWU, DoB and all the things there are in the server what should be fostered is a copy of a United Front system so prevalent in banana republics or the organic """democracy""" in Franco's spain. Where Carlists and Falangists butted heads against each other.

Making city rp is in my opinion as simple as making there be sides, just like in sports, give the common man a tribe and he'll be hooked until he destroys the opposing one
Politics on this server originally was much more violent and complex, you had the futurists who by all means, are antagonistic in their intentions however bring roleplay through their acts
 
Here's a look at two screenshots I took one minute between one another.
I decided to see how CityRP is comparing to SlumRP in terms of activeness, so I took the first screenshot then switched characters.
1647047742228.png
1647047777834.png
 
Recently, I've gotten to thinking as to why City RP struggles as opposed to Slums RP. I found three reasons are possibly present.

1. The City proper, that is to say, Victory and Triumph are kind of lame design wise. (mechanically speaking) Maybe this is just me scrounging for answers, but when I look at the slums, its insane how different they are. The slums is made up of multiple lanes, sections and alcoves, all which allow you to maneuver through it differently and separate yourself from the public eye if only for a little bit. This is especially true in V4. Every single loyalist street though, is just that. A street. A single, straight road leading to nowhere (poetically). Everything is open as hell and whether standing on the far side, or the nearest, someone can always see you. I think its possible this makes it simply nearly impossible to engage in anything out of the norm, as any such plans would have to be made in the lower city. The only off-shoots of the streets, is locked, private stores, or the RDT which is mostly filled with locked private doors.
Technically we have apartments right now, but even that will be absorbed into the Slums soon. Of which, it doesn't matter since the Apartments are just out of everyone's way so they are never used. Not really a good example as a result. I think the slums have the advantage of feeling bigger, even if they aren't technically so currently. The varied environments make you feel that distance travelled is greater than it ever feels in those straight roads. The privacy lends itself to plans. Plans lend themselves to action.

Or this is not the answer at all. Either is possible.

2. After the sweeping changes to rebels, its technically easier to be a rebel than it is to be a loyalist. Within a week or so, you can fairly reliably become a fully kitted rebel, and even top-grade gear such as rifles are only ever one BMD or Expedition away. (Which is another thing that now separates rebels - regular events) Loyalists though haven't gotten any adjustments to match this as far as I know. The work shift grind is still terrible and no faster now than it was before. It seems like its been slightly addressed by lowering the requirements (these days the lower tiers have way more respect IC it seems) but it still doesn't do much. Not that it is as simple as allowing the CWU to give out 10 points as they used to. That was the first time loyalist RP took a hit, simply because literally everyone in the city (slums and all) was pretty much a T3 or above. There was no loyalists at that point. Just numbers.
Ultimately, the loyalist grind, from what I hear, isn't very fun, and frankly, there isn't much to gain from it. As a T6 I never really feel atop the world or anything. A fully equipped and readied rebel has guns, armors, allies and hidden stashes Etc. A fully fledged loyalist has a target on their back, a suit, many restrictions, and some general permissions, I suppose. Though, whether or not CP's shrug you off like anyone else is a complete dice roll. Increased and encouraged freedom of activity may help revive the city. Perhaps high level loyalists need a group of people dedicated to organizing them and using the many perks they have gained to benefit the Citizen on an OOC level. To keep fun things happening via events, sort of like Futurism, sort of, did. Just without the constant OOC drama and getting shot part.

3. Obviously, slums are free to do anything they want. This is a tricky one, because its natural to an extent. The whole portion of the City is closet rebels so they naturally don't follow the rules. They can make structures, fires, arts, Etc. There is just more to do as there is no one stopping you doing anything. Rebels themselves are so powerful these days too, that any organized efforts they commit too are mostly uncontested save for OTA deployments which typically don't happen unless they are being violent or killing CP's. It gives the slums an increased measure of independence to do whatever they feel is fun at the time. Maybe loyalists could do this stuff too, I'm sure there is no laws against it. But there is a certain discouragement from doing stuff out of the norm I would imagine as only the futurists ever really did in my memory (and of course always got themselves shot by taking it too far.)
Its possible, that unlike before, the slums basically is independent at this point. CP's are nearly useless in keeping it controlled and OTA never deploy, which is good. But, this has resulted in the old bunker problem we had, where without contest or trials, the Slums has basically broken off from the city entirely. The key to everything is to have the slums and actual City inseparable. To make sure you cannot function without interacting with the City on some level and this I think is what is largely lacking currently.


Maybe all that's correct, maybe none of it is. City RP has carried the same boons and tribulations for as long as HL2RP has existed, and many things have been tried. Anyone who pretends to have the answer is typically just another version of wrong. All I know is defeatism doesn't help anything. No point in saying nothing can be done constantly, or crying inevitability. Maybe once. Once is good. After that though, you may as well just try. City RP has lasted as long as it has for a reason. Despite all the bullshit, it does work. Many of the same people crying about how boring it is, are the same people who have played it for ten years.
 
But, this has resulted in the old bunker problem we had, where without contest or trials, the Slums has basically broken off from the city entirely. The key to everything is to have the slums and actual City inseparable. To make sure you cannot function without interacting with the City on some level and this I think is what is largely lacking currently.

This is 99% of the issue right here.

The slums don't have cops in them often so you can build anything and do anything RP wise, as well as having room to interact with rebels and vorts.

That would be fine on its own, except you can also be 100% self-sufficient while you are there. You can get food and water easily. You can go into the sewers to get items and buy from the BMD. Why would you ever need to touch the city? You don't. And even if you do, the map as it is (and I assume v4 too) has issues with routes in and out of the city that allow for organic escapes that won't be blocked off.

I think making the slums bigger is a mistake, because it'll only exacerbate the problem of people flocking there because they can, with no reason to come back.
 
3. Rebels themselves are so powerful these days too, that any organized efforts they commit too are mostly uncontested save for OTA deployments which typically don't happen unless they are being violent or killing CP's. It gives the slums an increased measure of independence to do whatever they feel is fun at the time.
A small point to pick at, but all the same. The freedom is certainly enticing, to be able to meet up in groups and talk without being told to isolate and having the entire thing shut down. The campfire is a good hub to RP in that the city just... doesn't have anything alike to it, it hasn't for a while imo. But it's not like Indigent is some independent utopia.

At the end of the day though, CP can, and still do shit over the slums (and this isn't necessarily something I dislike, it keeps things going). Entire cells die to sweeps, as recent as last week. They burn slums to a crisp, destroy the homeless shelter, campfire, mass beatings, etc. Ofc if all groups unite, as we've seen, they do kick ass. But only so far, and the work to get there is so monumental we probably won't see anything alike for months.
 
Recently, I've gotten to thinking as to why City RP struggles as opposed to Slums RP. I found three reasons are possibly present.

1. The City proper, that is to say, Victory and Triumph are kind of lame design wise. (mechanically speaking) Maybe this is just me scrounging for answers, but when I look at the slums, its insane how different they are. The slums is made up of multiple lanes, sections and alcoves, all which allow you to maneuver through it differently and separate yourself from the public eye if only for a little bit. This is especially true in V4. Every single loyalist street though, is just that. A street. A single, straight road leading to nowhere (poetically). Everything is open as hell and whether standing on the far side, or the nearest, someone can always see you. I think its possible this makes it simply nearly impossible to engage in anything out of the norm, as any such plans would have to be made in the lower city. The only off-shoots of the streets, is locked, private stores, or the RDT which is mostly filled with locked private doors.
Technically we have apartments right now, but even that will be absorbed into the Slums soon. Of which, it doesn't matter since the Apartments are just out of everyone's way so they are never used. Not really a good example as a result. I think the slums have the advantage of feeling bigger, even if they aren't technically so currently. The varied environments make you feel that distance travelled is greater than it ever feels in those straight roads. The privacy lends itself to plans. Plans lend themselves to action.

Or this is not the answer at all. Either is possible.

2. After the sweeping changes to rebels, its technically easier to be a rebel than it is to be a loyalist. Within a week or so, you can fairly reliably become a fully kitted rebel, and even top-grade gear such as rifles are only ever one BMD or Expedition away. (Which is another thing that now separates rebels - regular events) Loyalists though haven't gotten any adjustments to match this as far as I know. The work shift grind is still terrible and no faster now than it was before. It seems like its been slightly addressed by lowering the requirements (these days the lower tiers have way more respect IC it seems) but it still doesn't do much. Not that it is as simple as allowing the CWU to give out 10 points as they used to. That was the first time loyalist RP took a hit, simply because literally everyone in the city (slums and all) was pretty much a T3 or above. There was no loyalists at that point. Just numbers.
Ultimately, the loyalist grind, from what I hear, isn't very fun, and frankly, there isn't much to gain from it. As a T6 I never really feel atop the world or anything. A fully equipped and readied rebel has guns, armors, allies and hidden stashes Etc. A fully fledged loyalist has a target on their back, a suit, many restrictions, and some general permissions, I suppose. Though, whether or not CP's shrug you off like anyone else is a complete dice roll. Increased and encouraged freedom of activity may help revive the city. Perhaps high level loyalists need a group of people dedicated to organizing them and using the many perks they have gained to benefit the Citizen on an OOC level. To keep fun things happening via events, sort of like Futurism, sort of, did. Just without the constant OOC drama and getting shot part.

3. Obviously, slums are free to do anything they want. This is a tricky one, because its natural to an extent. The whole portion of the City is closet rebels so they naturally don't follow the rules. They can make structures, fires, arts, Etc. There is just more to do as there is no one stopping you doing anything. Rebels themselves are so powerful these days too, that any organized efforts they commit too are mostly uncontested save for OTA deployments which typically don't happen unless they are being violent or killing CP's. It gives the slums an increased measure of independence to do whatever they feel is fun at the time. Maybe loyalists could do this stuff too, I'm sure there is no laws against it. But there is a certain discouragement from doing stuff out of the norm I would imagine as only the futurists ever really did in my memory (and of course always got themselves shot by taking it too far.)
Its possible, that unlike before, the slums basically is independent at this point. CP's are nearly useless in keeping it controlled and OTA never deploy, which is good. But, this has resulted in the old bunker problem we had, where without contest or trials, the Slums has basically broken off from the city entirely. The key to everything is to have the slums and actual City inseparable. To make sure you cannot function without interacting with the City on some level and this I think is what is largely lacking currently.


Maybe all that's correct, maybe none of it is. City RP has carried the same boons and tribulations for as long as HL2RP has existed, and many things have been tried. Anyone who pretends to have the answer is typically just another version of wrong. All I know is defeatism doesn't help anything. No point in saying nothing can be done constantly, or crying inevitability. Maybe once. Once is good. After that though, you may as well just try. City RP has lasted as long as it has for a reason. Despite all the bullshit, it does work. Many of the same people crying about how boring it is, are the same people who have played it for ten years.
This pretty much. As a slum dweller it's more of a survival game where you can somehow thrive in what's supposed to be a desperate slum. Hungry? Just run into the sewers and collect the frequently spawning trash drops that never run out and sell the scrap to the smugglers to buy gear and all the food you need. there's barely any challenges to it. Normal citizens dont have anything like that. gotta wait for passive rp events, which just ends up with citizens getting bored and going to the slums because they can get their dopamine fix by scrapping anytime they want. The NPCs are barely a challenge, since you can cheese by most hl2 NPCs that don't have ranged attacks, and if you're caught off guard by them, you really deserve it, at least in all my encounters with sewers full of zombies, headcrabs and antlions.

It's so easy in fact I frequently see people handing out loads of food for free, just putting it on a table for anyone to take so they aren't hungry.

That on top of the fact that slum rp is RUST tier nonsense with the crafting. Players that rip apart a few hundred cans are now capable of making an automatic smg at a workbench out of reclaimed trash metal? Ok.
Don't even get me started with how dumb some of the specific recipes are, like making a grenade launcher attachment with electronic parts.

Combine can't even respond with equal amounts of force because they're constrained by arbitrary deployment limits. So even if there's literally a small army causing trouble in a loyalist city, can't send more than a squad of OTA or MPF to deal with it. And a day later, they relax all security so rebels can do it again (wow who could have seen it coming? Rebels attacked, we did a sweep, didn't confirm whether any of the rebels that were killed were part of the attack, and then we just left and let them do it again)

First world, democratic countries respond with more force to a single armed crackhead, or someone making a colorful tweet (in certain countries) than the combine do to an actual cell of rebels armed with machineguns and multiple vortigaunts committing terrorist attacks in a Loyalist city.

This whole act feels like it just exists so more slum dwellers can justify becoming rebels. As if the monthly terrorist attacks weren't overdone enough and the heavily armed rebel cells weren't large enough. Because that's all players need. Few of them have valid reason to take up arms and join some insurgency in a city where they could easily be killed. They just wanna do rebel rp because there's nothing else to do and all this act does is encourage more lolrebels to pop up.
 
This is 99% of the issue right here.

The slums don't have cops in them often so you can build anything and do anything RP wise, as well as having room to interact with rebels and vorts.

That would be fine on its own, except you can also be 100% self-sufficient while you are there. You can get food and water easily. You can go into the sewers to get items and buy from the BMD. Why would you ever need to touch the city? You don't. And even if you do, the map as it is (and I assume v4 too) has issues with routes in and out of the city that allow for organic escapes that won't be blocked off.

I think making the slums bigger is a mistake, because it'll only exacerbate the problem of people flocking there because they can, with no reason to come back.

The slums DOES need a rework; having only two entrances that are easy to keep an eye on & block and the lack of easy getaway routes are a detriment to anyone looking to do any meaningful resistance activities in the city bar the occasions where two dozen rebels gather up and storm the Triumph to override the map's faults.

A simple enlargement might not be so good though I agree.

Anyway the size of the map wouldn't have mattered one bit to whether citizenRP was thriving if the factions that lorded over the city area weren't adamant on stamping out people that gave it life with conflict, controversy and activity. It's been said a few times already and I'll just look like I'm sucking my own dick but I did run the most active restaurant in the city not long ago, and I did push out a petition against an IC faction that the whole server was invested in pretty much overnight; both of these things were cut short because different sorts of authority figures decided to put an early stop them/allow them to be put an early stop to over small reasons that only stand because some people tout that it's the nature of a 'dystopia' for them to.

I've rolled with it all and I don't mind that these things happened but they'll continue to be an example to other players of how easily you can be irreversibly punished for trying to spice things up; how the people in IC positions of authority rarely treat you as a worthwhile, respected antagonist to their way of things and a player to have fun with, but just some bug to step on and wipe out on the spot to show off how 'strict' and 'cruel' their own character and by and large the 'dystopia' they live in is (while conveniently rarely playing characters who are on the other end of the IC abuse they inflict). It's parasitic and it should not be ignored; if you want citizenRP to thrive, you have to restrain the reach of the factions that control it before they do further damage.

You can't have a crusade of demanding citizen characters ICly keep 'in line' while also expecting them to do interesting things. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Combine can't even respond with equal amounts of force because they're constrained by arbitrary deployment limits. So even if there's literally a small army causing trouble in a loyalist city, can't send more than a squad of OTA or MPF to deal with it. And a day later, they relax all security so rebels can do it again (wow who could have seen it coming? Rebels attacked, we did a sweep, didn't confirm whether any of the rebels that were killed were part of the attack, and then we just left and let them do it again)

First world, democratic countries respond with more force to a single armed crackhead, or someone making a colorful tweet (in certain countries) than the combine do to an actual cell of rebels armed with machineguns and multiple vortigaunts committing terrorist attacks in a Loyalist city.

This whole act feels like it just exists so more slum dwellers can justify becoming rebels. As if the monthly terrorist attacks weren't overdone enough and the heavily armed rebel cells weren't large enough. Because that's all players need. Few of them have valid reason to take up arms and join some insurgency in a city where they could easily be killed. They just wanna do rebel rp because there's nothing else to do and all this act does is encourage more lolrebels to pop up.

Because honestly, sadly, it does exist to justify that. When the majority of your playerbase are slum dwellers and rebels, one bad move risks souring them and making them all quit - which risks killing the server.

The Resistance need to feel like they have a 'chance' at winning rather than getting steamrolled but nobody ever considered what would happen when rebels actually a legitimate threat as more than just a few bluesuits with shitty pipe guns. Now even @Neonity is likely sitting scratching their head wondering how to balance the fact rebels can supposedly fight off three waves of OTA without a single loss on their side without rolling in with more numbers and dealing with a complaint or risking everyone quitting over it.

There is one truth in HL2RP CityRP and it is this:

If you give players the ability to easily get rebel equipment over doing things in the city, they will do it. If they can shelter away from the cops to keep that equipment, they will. Being a rebel is 1000x more fun than the base city experience if you let it be.

RebelRp needs to be moved away from as a focus. You shouldn't be able to be self-sufficient in the slums or sewers. You should need to come to the city and get involved. RebelRP should be seen as a secondary focus over the city. Stop making currency a digital online-only thing that is easily tracked because this kills bribes and inner-city stuff.

I'm sorry to bring up Neb again, but at the start of last year we swapped to C8 and made surface stuff the focus. The majority of people got involved - we had gangs, clubs, corruption amongst cops, the works. It got so fun that for half a year RebelRP was basically dead while the city was booming, day in and day out.

That could happen here, too, if some things were changed.
 
ppl rlly touting the one time rebels did something that required arduous IC and OOC coordination and months of planning, stockpiling, making backroom deals, expeditions, alliances to pull off as the death of city rp and how rebels rule the streets

even here ppl are coping with rebels finally doing something other than grinding scriptz 24/7

before it was rebels did nothing but grind scriptz and so they suck

now its rebels do something and they suck

next it will be no rebels so city sucks and so we start the Game of Thrones chapter of the server (alike to SCG) where ppl in fight against each other because there is no clear enemy anymore (rebels) to bitch at about their problems with hl2rp

i still have no idea why i bother with hl2rp for years when its always the same shit everyday after a while
 
Server dynamic is starting to feel akin to a Facebook or mobile game. I wanna love Willard but damn it why do we do this to each other?
 
Server dynamic is starting to feel akin to a Facebook or mobile game. I wanna love Willard but damn it why do we do this to each other?

bcz it turns into forum wars, pms, dm's, ooc battles instead of ic ones

everyone goes political

everyone goes ooc

its no longer about ic anymore, about story building, about a narrative

its all about scriptz, drama, ooc relationships both erp and partnerships to destroy other cliques

its been this way for a long time its just getting worse bcz ppl have nothing else to put their minds to
 
I'll be fine with rebels being able to make guns like it's RUST, but we gotta allow loyalists forces to make guns too and battle rebels in the slums like some god awful Ulster volunteer type force. Not like we stick to the conventions of HL2 anyway with suited loyalists running massive corporations and taking part in a parliamentary government.
We might as well since this doesn't feel at like like a loyalist city since it's essentially got armed rebel groups sitting on the other side of a forcefield people can freely pass through. This city feels more like the troubles, or some modern civil war, or Chicago.


Bring back the M.A.A.
:angrycop:
 
Last edited:
ppl rlly touting the one time rebels did something that required arduous IC and OOC coordination and months of planning, stockpiling, making backroom deals, expeditions, alliances to pull off as the death of city rp and how rebels rule the streets

That isn't why people are frustrated right now.

People who want to enjoy the city can't because rebels have gone from being revived to being the focus - 90% of the RP now happens in the slums and sewers day-to-day. You can sit there and be entirely self-sufficient with all of your needs met without any real risk of cops, and have a big chance to get guns on top of that. Plus there's always people there to roleplay with!

RebelRP has been made too attractive for people at the expense of the city while the city itself lacks lots of things because the "bad guys" are all sitting in the slums and not interacting with anyone else, and unless cops roll in and piss everyone off they don't come out.

Being able to storm Triumph briefly is a hundred times less interesting than a few months ago when 90% of the groups were gangs who had their fingers in the city and were legitimate antagonists.

I'm not blaming you but there's no way this can be handled "IC".
 
Last edited:
Back
Top