Admin Abuse (Insult, Excessive Ban, Double Jeopardy) on my Ban Appeal and Proposal of a New Ban Appeal System

[Vewoth]

INTRODUCTION TO RESPONSE​

After re-reading this thread and taking several days to fully consider the replies, after understanding what the server director and @Rabithunter have said in response to my claims of admin abuse, and after thinking over what community members have, I believe I have been mistaken in some of my claims of admin abuse, I believe other abuse has occurred, and I believe the appeal should be reconsidered and the ban appeal system changed because of the abuse that has occurred.

I admit I fucked up. My RP was not to the standard I normally have for myself, and it's not the quality people normally expect from me. That's first on this reply. Yes, I deserve to face the consequence's for it.

ADMIN ABUSE
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1. Bias and Manipulation did NOT occur.

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After really looking at Rabit's reply, I do not believe he was Biased. As Imperator acknowledged:​

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I've spoken to members of staff about this routinely for the previous few hours on and off. There's a lot more behind the scenes that go on than what is currently realised and I believe that you may be rather misplaced in terms of the bias outlook amongst the staff team when it arrives to your earlier denied appeal. There's agreements and disagreements within the circle - it isn't just one person that looks at the complaints, they are all involved. We have multitudes of agreements and disagreements regarding each appeal we look into, and especially complaint threads.​

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The server director is correct, as he is. I have now come to believe that I was 'misplaced' on the issue of bias. And I think Rabit was NOT biased, for two reasons. One, because he is the "disputations manager." Even considering that admins do get burnt out after dealing with people and their cheese day in and out, and especially as heir primary role....I now understand why he called the previous appeal a "dispute." It's his role to handle disputes as the dispute manager.​

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there are, of course, issues within the system such as favortism or inability to respond but thats a part of every system and no matter how convoluted or simple you make it, human error will always creep in and screw things up. especially so in a roleplay community where people's personality / real life character, accumulated offenses, things that don't get recorded but are noticed both by players and staff, and other miniscule things add up to judge players, and not just their ban records.​

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And this information also allows me to understand that he did not try and manipulate the thread. His tone, his narrative, and his perception of events is from the angle of someone who is, by design, supposed to support the administration and staff decision, and I cannot fault him for that individually, as @swagile pointed out very reasonably. So, to @Rabithunter I am sorry for claiming that you were biased and manipulative in your response. You were neither.​

2. An Insult DID occur. "You perception is very narrow." An insult is an abuse, and demonstrates poor judgment on my appeal (it wasn't handled correctly).

The insult (the evidence):

You perception is very narrow...

The evidence of insult is clear.​

My intention wasn't to insult you, far from it. I could have worded it better in hindsight and I apologize for what does look like an insult from myself to you Vewoth. I'll leave the rest of this thread to the relevant staff and allow them to come to a decision, so im not clogging this up with unnecessary comments and so forth.

1. Good intentions pave the way to hell. Intentions don't matter. The insult occurred. It happened.
2. It's all good man I don't take it personally, it's a game at the end of the day and I know you deal with shit all day looking at appeals, so it's w/e. Thanks for the apology, but sorry too on my end for not doing better RP. I know you care about this community, and I understand where you come from.

The first applies to why the appeal should be reconsidered, but the second is just my personal note to @Rabithunter about all this. It's the most serious thing I will say on this entire thread.

Is it not still valid criticism that should be looked at? I feel like the reason people don't like Willard staff is this, most criticism is not defended, staff just berate and insult the ones who give the criticism or use small things like what you said as a way to get rid of it, and if it's that much of a problem, move it to a diffrent section, but don't use this as an excuse to get rid of valid criticism.​

The evidence is clear. It is concrete and from Rabit's words. This satisfies one of the standard's for the server director's requirements for this abuse report.​

I need concrete, physical evidence that there is actual abuse at play.​

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A staff member insulted a community member. But look at the context and the tone it creates - the insult was made in a denial of my appeal in their official capacity as appeal manager. There's no question that it's unprofessional. But here's why it matters - No one insults people randomly. It happened for a reason, and it shows emotion. Emotion is subjective. The insult shows that the appeal was not made with objective judgment and deserves reconsideration by an objective party for that reason, alone. But I will give additional reasons of abuse that also warrant the ban to be reconsidered.​

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Here's the bigger question: Why does it matter? It's clear - Rabit insulted me. Was it a big, bad insult? No. Did it hurt me and make me feel bad? No. But does it show poor judgment from someone who is considering this person, their credibility, their reason and appeal, and has to consider their 'perception,' and reason and arguments against the ban? It does, very much.​

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So what's the emotion that generated the insult? I don't know, and there's no evidence to lead us to the answer. The only evidence is the abuse itself and the poor judgment it shows. But the insult (abuse) is enough to demonstrate poor judgment on my appeal, and warrants the ban to be reconsidered. That's all I want to happen. I have nothing personal against Rabit. I'm not asking or wanting for him to be warned, demoted, or get in trouble for it.​

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3. I was held in Double Jeopardy. Rabit even admitted to it. Double Jeopardy is an abuse of power (injustice).

-EDIT- Just something else I thought of just after posting this. When it comes to ban appeals I take all of a players past inrfactions into consideration, weighing up how long they have been banned for previously, how regularly they had been banned/warned, how long they have been part of the community for, multiples of the same ban/warning. I do try to keep myself unbiased, whilst also looking at it from both sides.

Considering previous unrelated warns or bans when deciding on the current ban is Not Right. Let's get that out of the way, first and foremost. WN is a multicultural community from many countries. But no country allows Double Jeopardy. Almost every culture considers that unjust and an abuse of power / the (justice) system. This abuse is not personal (emotional, poor in judgment) like the insult, it's official abuse. The server director should establish a that previous unrelated warns or bans should not be considered.​

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To go into debate why is to turn this thread into a legal theory post that supports the justice systems of almost all nations. It's not right, it defeats the purpose of appealing, and it prevents people from receiving a fair look (due process).​

For me personally, I think people should be banned on a case-by-case basis. Because considering their previous offenses and the length of those bans can lead to a snowballing effect.​

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If Vewoth is banned for a month in addition to a few weeks for other things, then his future bans will be longer, right?​

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People also need to understand that not all appeals have to eliminate the ban entirely. It could be successful and reduce its duration, so instead of a month he is instead banned for 2 weeks (as an example)​

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It's hard to address a wrong doing or abuse for a video game forum when the issue is so "in your face" fundamental and basic, that you'd think you wouldn't even be discussing it at all. As @WompyTree pointed out, and reasoned very logically, bans will stack when unrelated bans are considered, without addressing the actual incident for that particular ban. I have already been "tried" for the previous bans. Why try me twice, just because you like considering past behaviors? I was banned and the appeal denied, not just because of what I did, but because of unrelated things I've done as thought they were related (punished twice for the same offence). I'm not quoting the EU charter to dramatize this - we're not talking legal theory here. But if someone casually admits to holding people in double jeopardy, it's just not a just thing to do. It's an abuse of authority against other people.​

In my case, my warns and bans are unrelated to each other. I was tried twice. That's abuse of power and not just. My appeal needs to be re-considered in a just way that is not an abuse of authority.​

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3. The ban is excessive. Excessive banning is an abuse of authority.

Now, you'd think this would've been a easy fix, just dm or pm the person to switch back on their char. But no, I was given a month ban without any sort of communication, or a admin saying "Hey, you can't do this."

This dude was banned for a whole month for that? Doesn’t really seem fair at all. However, I believe your thread has some genuine merit to it, and I hope it doesn’t just get locked, and I hope the administration is willing to look past you posting this in the wrong place (Cardinal Sin, how dare you not be familiar with how they want to format the forums exactly).

Then move it to the correct one then lol, you mentioned it was in the wrong subforum, so move it to a different forum.
If not, you are just trying to silence him, or it looks like you are.

It is certainly true that sometimes admins get over zealous with bans, or sometimes dish out bans that are too punishing.

Here are the main facts of the appeal that deal with excessive banning:​

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1. My ban put me in double jeopardy, banning me for past, unrelated bans that aren't on the logs. I shared the ban history for everyone to see. The current ban is unrelated, in addition to concerns that aren't specified. We know this because the admin admitted to it, and because the admin on appeal spent more time talking about unrelated warns and bans than the ban.​

2. The admin on appeal did not explain why concerning information was concerning, even though it wasn't, but continued to bring up more "concerning information" (for example, I was able to enter the Nexus by following a CP into it. No glitching, no tp'ing. That's in the logs. And yet it's concerning? I was never told what I failed to /checkrime. Just banned on it. Never explained, which means never given a chance to show evidence, or talk about. Just banned. This is one of the most egregious examples of excessive banning, not to mentioned many other errors in moderating, which I won't go into right now, because they don't concern abuse and the reasons to overturn the ban. I still don't know what I supposedly failed to /checkrime!! And it wouldn't even matter if it was explained to me. The ban and appeal denial occurred with that serious failure in moderation and excessive use of authority. The abuse is done and the poor judgment it shows, not to mention the reasons to correct it and overturn the ban are evident, in it.​

3. My claims may have been considered, but they were not acknowledged.​

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I realized that the admin did NOT "ignore my claims," as I claimed. But rather banned excessively.​

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You forgot to mention that when someone does something that is bannable, they are first given a verbal warning not to do it again.

Thank you @M!NT, I did forget that.​

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4. I was banned for something that I had never done prior, and never given a warning before the ban. Imagine getting a month long ban for an offense, but it's your first time being accused of the offense (FeaRP and acting unphased), and you were never warned about it first (just as you have never been banned about it first). I had never been accused of fearRP and acting unphased. And then boom, month long ban. No "verbal warning not to do it again" like M!NT mentioned.​

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If all you care about is the past bans, and talk more about those in the appeal decision, then players who want to improve can't. They are held down by their mistakes, and not given actual second chances. They are chained down by it.​

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No one dm'd me either, asked for my side of the story when an admin was not present, or to see what I saw, regardless of the /me, but how the opposite players were positioned, what they /me'd. Only my /mes were presented, and not theirs, which tells a different story and demands consideration.​

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I'm going to end this point about abuse of power from an excessive ban very quickly and promptly, because the community has been very helpful in pointing this out first thing.​

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Question: if you were banned for things that you were already banned for, for "concerns" that weren't specified as to why they are concerning when logs back you up (it's in Rabit's appeal reply posted here that he did this), and when you have reasons to explain why they aren't concerning, or when your side of the story goes unacknowledged during the time of the offense or after.... and by the way, not only does the admin not seem to want to even listen to you, but the admin insults you... if that happened to you, or an admin, or the server director, or any in the community reading this, would you not want to reform the system that allows that?​

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Like I said, I'm not on a warpath against Rabit. All is forgiven with us, and I don' want him to be warned, demoted, punished etc. I like him, I like his RP and characters, and he's a great admin. But this abuse of excessive banning did occur, and the corrective action is to reduce the ban to either the appropriate warn or an appropriate link, for doing bad RP and not acting phased, but not even FailRP. All I ask is a separate admin read the logs, check out my side of the story, only consider this offence and not hold me in double jeopardy, not insult me, exercise good judgment, and reconsider the ban.​

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That's it. You can see, very clearly, abuse occurred and the ban is excessive.​

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Just look back at the information and make a better decision on the ban, that's all I ask. And please. Please consider making changes to the appeal system so that this doesn't happen again to other players.​

CONCLUSION - RECONSIDER THE BAN AND CORRECT THE ABUSE

After reading the server director's reply and the reply from the staff afterwards, I got a glimpse into what the staff deals with, how long they deal with it, and what they look at it. You guys do this like a full time job and my hat is off to you lol. I don't know how you do it, but you do. So thanks. Regardless of how this works out, you know my ass is coming right back to WN right after the ban, whether it's reduced to a warn, reduced in length or not. Regardless of the abuse on my ban and ban appeal, regardless of the insult (like I said Idc, it's w/e), this a great community, great staff, and the best serious HL2RP server in the game. So even if it's a month later, you will see me again and ready to do some quality RP.

To the server director. @Imperator RAD-X I'm not asking you to change the appeal system on a whim. Abuse on my appeal denial is evidence of this. Currently, the system allows abuse of insults, abuse of justice, and abuse of excessive banning. Others in the community have attested to this on this very thread, as having experienced these abuses as well. Consider them witnesses to other cases, and this thread evidence.
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You can change this by implementing the system that I proposed or that @WompyTree proposed. As for this particular case, you can correct the abuse that was done here, the poor judgment on my appeal, the double jeopardy and injustice on my appeal, and the abuse of excessive banning from an unreasonably long ban, by reducing my ban in duration or reducing it to a warning, since I had not committed a similar offense in the past for what I was banned for. As M!NT said, a person should be warned before ban. So I should be warned, since I hadn't committed this ban offense before. And if you don't agree with that, then I should be banned for a week, maybe 2, given the evidence and what you now know of the whole story (their side and mine) from reading this thread. But a month is obviously excessive. I did not RP as good as I should have. I did not meet WN's standard that keeps it a serious RP server. I'm sorry. Believe me, when I read your reply and re-read your appeal countless times, more than I have re-read any appeal, I don't just arguments. I see the very valid points you make, and someone who cares about WN doing the quality-control for this server that needs to be done. If this was not about "Vewoth," and someone else, I'd probably say: "Yeah the ban was excessive, but they still fucked up." So I do agree with you, more than you may think I disagree with you. I fucked up.

Thanks all for the read. Thanks to the admins for letting this abuse report be heard. For as long as the staff leaves this thread open, I hope more in the community will look at this thread and provide input, looking at the evidence and the arguments from each side.

WN is a community-driven server, so please provide input. We all get off the train to City 24 this Friday and the map opens, and I'm as eager as anyone to get right into the RP and not be held up in that train station interrogation room like Gordon Freeman for a month with "me, your old pal Barney, from Black Mesa!"

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[M!NT]

This dude is literally quoting eu human rights articles in a thread where he is complaining about his ban appeal getting rejected.
A ban appeal for a garrys mod roleplaying server.

This is clearly a straw man fallacy

Allow me to provide for you an analog that is much better suited for your case: Repeat Offender

In just about every criminal justice system out there, if you are a repeat offender, your next punishment is harsher.

Even if the next offense is only tangentially related to the prior ones.
YOU WERE NOT BANNED BECAUSE OF PAST OFFENSES but, those past offenses contribute to your punishment when you repeatedly break the rules. This is called Recidivism.

If all you care about is the past bans, and talk more about those in the appeal decision, then players who want to improve can't. They are held down by their mistakes, and not given actual second chances. They are chained down by it.

If someone repeatedly breaks the rules, they get banned for longer and longer and it will eventually lead to a permanent ban. When your ban ends, you are given a second chance. You have already been given multiple 'second chances'.

All I ask is a separate admin read the logs, check out my side of the story, only consider this offence and not hold me in double jeopardy, not insult me, exercise good judgment, and reconsider the ban.

Sure, we can do this right now.

You broke the rules multiple times in the past, and have been banned in the past.
After the ban expired you have recieved multiple warnings for breaking the rules after your past ban.

You broke the rules once again, which resulted in a ban. Because you are a repeat offender a harsher sentence then normal is required. REJECTED

Question: if you were banned for things that you were already banned for, for "concerns" that weren't specified as to why they are concerning when logs back you up (it's in Rabit's appeal reply posted here that he did this), and when you have reasons to explain why they aren't concerning, or when your side of the story goes unacknowledged during the time of the offense or after.... and by the way, not only does the admin not seem to want to even listen to you, but the admin insults you... if that happened to you, or an admin, or the server director, or any in the community reading this, would you not want to reform the system that allows that?

Thats a fun story, but it doesn't apply here. You broke the rules, your side of the story was considered, but you still broke the rules. Therefore, this hypothetical question remains hypothetical in your case and is a false analogy.

The admin on appeal did not explain why concerning information was concerning, even though it wasn't, but continued to bring up more "concerning information" (for example, I was able to enter the Nexus by following a CP into it. No glitching, no tp'ing. That's in the logs. And yet it's concerning? I was never told what I failed to /checkrime. Just banned on it. Never explained, which means never given a chance to show evidence, or talk about. Just banned. This is one of the most egregious examples of excessive banning, not to mentioned many other errors in moderating, which I won't go into right now, because they don't concern abuse and the reasons to overturn the ban. I still don't know what I supposedly failed to /checkrime!! And it wouldn't even matter if it was explained to me. The ban and appeal denial occurred with that serious failure in moderation and excessive use of authority. The abuse is done and the poor judgment it shows, not to mention the reasons to correct it and overturn the ban are evident, in it.3. My claims may have been considered, but they were not acknowledged.

1. There is nothing in the logs about this. It just shows you being somewhere, then the next moment somewhere else with little explanation.
2. This was not done with any RP, therefore you could consider it fail RP. Your character has no real reason to go into the nexus. You didn't RP it, you just walked in there.
3. Its a crime (trespass) therefor you need to run checkcrime to see if it can be done or not.

I'm sorry that you chose not to read the rules man. However, now you have a month to sit and read the rules before you come back.

Here's the bigger question: Why does it matter? It's clear - Rabit insulted me. Was it a big, bad insult? No. Did it hurt me and make me feel bad? No. But does it show poor judgment from someone who is considering this person, their credibility, their reason and appeal, and has to consider their 'perception,' and reason and arguments against the ban? It does, very much.

This is petty and you know it. You are reaaally reaching here by constituting what rabit said to you as abuse. I actually think it is a fair statement, and you're taking it out of context to try and make it sound like abuse. Again, to support your false narratives.

What he said was true though. You DO have a narrow perspective (relatively speaking).
You only have your memory to serve you
The admin team has the in game logs, ban/warn history (all of which are irrefutable facts), testimonials from other players and staff team members, etc.
So, it's a factual statement to say that you have a narrower perspective on this entire situation.
You instead take this respectful and factual statement and attempt to prop it up as some sort of abuse so that this thread appears more legitimate then it really is.

CONCLUSION - RECONSIDER THE BAN AND CORRECT THE ABUSE

This is what you really want.
You are not trying to be a savant; trying to make willard better.
You just want to be unbanned but your appeal was rejected. So to appeal the appeal (which you can't do), you make a false admin abuse claim to trying to make it look like you were the victim of some kind of systemic abuse. The problem with that is that there was never any abuse to begin with.

You want to make a huge problem for the admin team so that they will unwind your ban so that you stop talking. News flash, that isn't going to work. You can continue to make huge forum posts full of as many fallacies as you wish, you will remain banned until the ban expires.