Turn bleedout godmode off for Overwatch specifically

[The Milkman]

Turn off bleedout godmode for overwatch.

As of now it is near impossible to execute an overwatch soldier in a fight without taking out the entire squad first or running into their line to drag a downed one out to finish them.

Meanwhile, OTA are able to revive themselves with meds they applied to themselves a minute prior and repair their 100 armor for an instant +100 HP on top of being literally invincible when they drop to the floor.

As of now, the only way to secure the kill on an OTA is to risk yourself to drag them somewhere and execute them and pray the GM nearby isn’t combine biased or to wipe the whole squad before they get back up.

OTA are Not characters, and as gr4ss said, throwaways should not harm developed characters. So give rebels a chance to actually finish OTA off if you’re gonna let them get back up after being downed.


@ultima @Vadim REQUESTING BACKUP

 

[Risvolto]

So you're telling me that because OTA do it it's bad? But when rebels do it, nobody complains? That seems a bit sus tbh. Mostly because i've seen rebels during combat, the moment they go down then get revived, they are almost instantly back in the fight after a "/me replaces" plates after they're healed. Maybe that should go both ways. I dunno.

PS. Yeah. OTA Are event characters, with little to no development (outside people who've ICLY Been OTA'd but they're usually grunts) But the rule should be enforced for all parties, not just OTA. The first step to balancing is enforcing equal rules on both sides of the conflict parties.

No? Everyone should follow the rule. If you see a rebel doing it, report them. Don't generalize.
I generalize with OTA with actual proof and a reason to do so. As OTA is currently not being punished for doing it. I'm not against it, I'm only saying that if they're allowed to do that, then as a counterpoint to that gigantic advantage, they should be able to go down while in bleedout.

Why does it have to be "the rebel team" and "the OTA team"???

"Rebels do it" is absurd. To be a rebel you don't require any whitelist and for that same reason categorizing them in a rulebreak as a whole is absurd. You should penalize them individually for it.

Your responses to /it's aren't exactly to the standard either, so I don't see why you complain about other people's quality of roleplay.

The way to enforce equal rules and make everyone be happy is that one. It isn't fair for a non-character to execute and essentially PK a character across the map with a shot to their dead body. What should be done is the following:

Let OTA heal each other when they die, as they do it right now (Even tho right now it's not a rule). And as a counterpoint to that, make it so that OTA aren't immortal once they fall.

Balancing isn't always applying equality. Each "side" as you call them has its own particularities. OTA aren't characters and therefore shouldn't be treated equally as characters. For the good sides (As having more HP and equipment than rebels, being able to return to combat after being down, and even being allowed to respawn in waves), and for the bad sides, like being able to be killed after being dropped.​

​

The distinction on "sides" is absurd, as OTA is an event faction with event characters. Not a "side". And I say this from a neutral standpoint, as I play overwatch factions just as I play rebel. (Literally a 50/50).​

​

​

 

[Risvolto]

Terrible mindset to have, the GMs aren't siding with anyone, especially combine.

Erm.... I disagree. A certain mentor that calls themselves GM has been proven to be siding with combine And also yourself and other staff members that have literally said it.

If you manage to capture an OTA and do an execute bind, present GM's don't ignore you because they're "combine biased", more times than not they're just busy. If GM's are freezing players then I don't know what to say, I doubt they're doing it out spite anyway.

Execute binds are not a thing anymore

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

Erm.... I disagree. A certain mentor that calls themselves GM has been proven to be siding with combine And also yourself and other staff members that have literally said it.

You're referencing me immediately, and i explicitly told you, i was not a GM at the time when i was called(I never once stated i WAS a GM even called GMs to come and assist twice... I did my best with my minimal experience. I wasn't exactly prepared to handle your constant accusations at the time.) But regardless of that I would oversee the situation. If you have a legitimate complaint, log it on the forums section appropriate. And let me voice my view. This is not the place for this. I digress, I don't take sides, i never have. When I played rebel a while back, i also played loyalist, including running my combine faction. If you can find quotes of this GM Bias? Please do so and make a complaint in the staff complaints section.

Execute binds are not a thing anymore

This is completely wrong. Execute binds are still used, as is s2k binds. I've seen them in use several times in the past couple months. As recent as the attack on the cave, where rebels dragged soldiers into the cave proper to prevent them getting rezzed. And then execute binded them (I was watching then as well) Its a classic he said she said, but im sure staff can easily find evidence of this if they look through the logs.

 

[ultima]

You're referencing me immediately, and i explicitly told you, i was not a GM at the time when i was called(I never once stated i WAS a GM even called GMs to come and assist twice... I did my best with my minimal experience. I wasn't exactly prepared to handle your constant accusations at the time.) But regardless of that I would oversee the situation. If you have a legitimate complaint, log it on the forums section appropriate. And let me voice my view. This is not the place for this. I digress, I don't take sides, i never have. When I played rebel a while back, i also played loyalist, including running my combine faction. If you can find quotes of this GM Bias? Please do so and make a complaint in the staff complaints section.

This is completely wrong. Execute binds are still used, as is s2k binds. I've seen them in use several times in the past couple months. As recent as the attack on the cave, where rebels dragged soldiers into the cave proper to prevent them getting rezzed. And then execute binded them (I was watching then as well) Its a classic he said she said, but im sure staff can easily find evidence of this if they look through the logs.

can you stop coming to every thread and being a nuisance please

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

can you stop coming to every thread and being a nuisance please

Just clearing up some misconceptions. If thats being a Nuisance, then I'd rather be that, then let misinformation spread.

 

[Risvolto]

log it on the forums section appropriate

 

[Zebra]

Yeah idk why ota have bleedout godmode on. Last fight i literally typed 2 different executions and @‘d staff for both. Stop forcing me to stand still in combat and risk them getting up behind me because you won’t flip a simple switch.

 

[Robert]

Let me start by bluntly stating: "You will only make our CvR issue worse by doing this.". Whether OTA follow the rule or not is not really an issue in itself given the current state of the server and Resistance to be more specific.

I am not going to play a broken record to put things already said 1000 times on repeat, but OTA are getting curbstomped, the CPs are beyond unhappy due to being effectively unable to play the game as the Resistance is by far entirely unbalanced and chaotic, causing major issues for server health. And while the resistance is strong and happy, suddenly giving the OTA a nerf (which by the way won't change anything as OTA can just send more OTA at you after you kill a few of them so more reinforcements will come in regardless) is entirely non-sensical given the powerscale is more or less in the Rebels favour.

I know some scream going "OTA aren't characters" and yeah... they aren't but thats the point... they are a control mechanism- or meant to be but that is no longer the case given the powercreep of the server has shifted the dynamic of hl2rp on its head where Resistance often overpowers the Combine- which is why GMs go down really hard on you guys just as a note.

By removing OTA from godmode, you are also making it even more unfair on the Combine said. Character or not, that is still a player trying to have fun and do what their factions is designed to do and Rebels have no trouble wiping OTA out as each fight have I seen has been major Rebel Ws with 0 Combine Ws except recently but even that doesn't count as the gunship caused the magical NLR refund mov, but stats wise, OTA have not really succeeded anything as of the last few months.

And while the above may sound great to you, is actually REALLY bad- because it means Resistance has no control measure- its part why people want to throw a gatekept WL over it- wipe the economy- press the hard reset button or entirely strip the current gameplay out of the server and redo it all from scratch.

---

Anyway, that was my rant but I know peeps won't be happy about the above since to them it will just seem like a "Combine must win" statement which being blunt and as internal feedback goes, the state of the CvR scene is heavily frowned upon by all parties and everyone just wants it to stop at this point.

The only thing I have actually enjoyed personally is the infestation stuff rebels did, that is good and that is cool. Far more interesting that shotcop 4245242 or taking on OTA for the 100th time out of sheer boredom or because someone failed to understand that maybe doing so many activities in such quick succession would really piss off the Combine side to send out more and more OTA. Its an uphill battle that can't be won.

---

What I will say however is eventually the whole gameplay system as you know will be poof... gone... reduced to atoms because quite frankly everyone has had enough of the us vs them bs and constant CvR. Willard is 95% combat, 5% RP ngl.

Thanks for listening to me rant and TLDR: This is 99.9% denied to be blunt.

 

[swagile]

ota can win without gimmicks like gunships and its been shown in a rebel + vort vs OTA s2k test done by @alessiodoomboy

the problem isn't that they keep losing against resistance, the problem is what happens when they win a single time in a major battle

so far they lose cause they are against unfavorable odds and in very bad terrain + generally not using their gear to their maximum (ive watched the few videos of rebels vs OTA on main and thats what ive seen so far)

but with the way the economy is structured right now, should rebel lose a single big battle and die, even if they do NOT get PK'd and only get NLR's it would bankrupt almost every group except for maybe Krah, or would have to be bailed out by one mega rich player, to get similar levels of what they were before if not just getting to on-par status

having to grind weeks to month(s) IRL to get back up from one OTA W doesn't sound like fun gameplay which is the issue, and it also STILL doesn't solve the issue of CP's not being able to have fun because now the rebels will be busy re-grinding everything instead of doing anything interesting like the infestation since anything worth doing on the main server invites a instant high-level response (10 + CP's / 5 CP's with APC OR OTA) so all you have left is petty sabotage or graffiti that literally no one cares about and will be fixed by the CWU's infinite resources

tl;dr all this complaining is because rebel players know everything i just said innately but don't put it in words and try to fix symptoms (OTA) instead of the issue (the systems that govern the entire resistance / admins who govern them with shitty ideas)

 

[Risvolto]

@Robert

As a CP player, I must say that the problem we face isn't really that we're fully unbalanced against rebels. The problem comes when a vortiguant or more are in play. The unbalance isn't between rebels and combine, as shown in the recent event (Rebels lost because it was just that. Rebels. And one vortigaunt but that paid off for the EOW, APF, and gunship...). When it comes to rebels vs CP, I'd say it's a fair fight. They have proven that they can win before (As the time @ultima managed to arrest Resonance).

The problem comes with VORTIGAUNTS versus CP. That is simply impossible to win because if the vortigaunt is at least a little bit good at S2k, they can 1shot every CP.

I think you're focusing it incorrectly. We should be let to sweep and deal with rebels as CP's unless they have vortigaunts with them. That way, OTA has fun, and CP's too.

Vortigaunts are the ones that need a balance, in my opinion. When OTA fights against vortigaunts, it's unfair for OTA.
When OTA fights against rebels, it's unfair for rebels (Unless OTA were to not be immortal once they get downed)
When CP fights against rebels, it's fair.

 

[The Milkman]

Let me start by bluntly stating: "You will only make our CvR issue worse by doing this.". Whether OTA follow the rule or not is not really an issue in itself given the current state of the server and Resistance to be more specific.

I am not going to play a broken record to put things already said 1000 times on repeat, but OTA are getting curbstomped, the CPs are beyond unhappy due to being effectively unable to play the game as the Resistance is by far entirely unbalanced and chaotic, causing major issues for server health. And while the resistance is strong and happy, suddenly giving the OTA a nerf (which by the way won't change anything as OTA can just send more OTA at you after you kill a few of them so more reinforcements will come in regardless) is entirely non-sensical given the powerscale is more or less in the Rebels favour.

I know some scream going "OTA aren't characters" and yeah... they aren't but thats the point... they are a control mechanism- or meant to be but that is no longer the case given the powercreep of the server has shifted the dynamic of hl2rp on its head where Resistance often overpowers the Combine- which is why GMs go down really hard on you guys just as a note.

By removing OTA from godmode, you are also making it even more unfair on the Combine said. Character or not, that is still a player trying to have fun and do what their factions is designed to do and Rebels have no trouble wiping OTA out as each fight have I seen has been major Rebel Ws with 0 Combine Ws except recently but even that doesn't count as the gunship caused the magical NLR refund mov, but stats wise, OTA have not really succeeded anything as of the last few months.

And while the above may sound great to you, is actually REALLY bad- because it means Resistance has no control measure- its part why people want to throw a gatekept WL over it- wipe the economy- press the hard reset button or entirely strip the current gameplay out of the server and redo it all from scratch.

---

Anyway, that was my rant but I know peeps won't be happy about the above since to them it will just seem like a "Combine must win" statement which being blunt and as internal feedback goes, the state of the CvR scene is heavily frowned upon by all parties and everyone just wants it to stop at this point.

The only thing I have actually enjoyed personally is the infestation stuff rebels did, that is good and that is cool. Far more interesting that shotcop 4245242 or taking on OTA for the 100th time out of sheer boredom or because someone failed to understand that maybe doing so many activities in such quick succession would really piss off the Combine side to send out more and more OTA. Its an uphill battle that can't be won.

---

What I will say however is eventually the whole gameplay system as you know will be poof... gone... reduced to atoms because quite frankly everyone has had enough of the us vs them bs and constant CvR. Willard is 95% combat, 5% RP ngl.

Thanks for listening to me rant and TLDR: This is 99.9% denied to be blunt.

And what happens when OTA are yet again the group wipers they used to be? Are we just gonna ignore these things now that make fighting them utterly unfair because ‘well if we do this then OTA will start dying again!’

And more importantly at what point does ‘rebels are winning cus they’re OP’ start and ‘OTA are losing due to inferior tactics’ end? Because 9-10 OTA with 3 specials and an EOW not able to take on an artificially limited force of 6-8 rebels without a gunship wiping out the rebel’s heaviest hitters is frankly just a skill issue.

And like you said, they are gonna send reinforcements when they die anyways so what’s the point? The point is that you can actually have a breather between waves and have a chance to escape and reduce your crime timer and not be infinitely fighting the same wave of soldiers that simply cannot be killed.

This is in the interest of making fights fair in the perfect scenario where combine vs rebel scene isn’t totally blown out of proportion. And arguably the only reason OTA have been taking Ls so much is because of 2 locations that are now blocked off (vort cave and outland ridgeline) and frankly ARE a huge threat to any rebels that aren’t in a giant 20 man group. So when everything is in the staff’s view of ‘balanced’ (OTA wiping groups every time they deploy), will you change this?

 

[swagile]

@Robert

As a CP player, I must say that the problem we face isn't really that we're fully unbalanced against rebels. The problem comes when a vortiguant or more are in play. The unbalance isn't between rebels and combine, as shown in the recent event (Rebels lost because it was just that. Rebels. And one vortigaunt but that paid off for the EOW, APF, and gunship...). When it comes to rebels vs CP, I'd say it's a fair fight. They have proven that they can win before (As the time @ultima managed to arrest Resonance).

The problem comes with VORTIGAUNTS versus CP. That is simply impossible to win because if the vortigaunt is at least a little bit good at S2k, they can 1shot every CP.

I think you're focusing it incorrectly. We should be let to sweep and deal with rebels as CP's unless they have vortigaunts with them. That way, OTA has fun, and CP's too.

Vortigaunts are the ones that need a balance, in my opinion. When OTA fights against vortigaunts, it's unfair for OTA.
When OTA fights against rebels, it's unfair for rebels
When CP fights against rebels, it's fair.

before i go swim and probably only look back at this again tomorrow since i got work, id also like to put my input on this

vorts have been an age old problem simply because the resistance sucks overall; they are always forced to fight an enemy that outguns, (usually) outnumbers, outarmors, and outsupplies them in OPEN COMBAT

this forces rebels to rely on crutches, and one of them (before the vort update) was vorts ability to heal (back when TBC was a thing), which allowed rebels to outlive all the advantages CP's had (and JUST BARELY) and usually lost against OTA unless OTA were dumb and killed themselves (Hiros EOW AR2 ball incident LOL!)

in s2k and later with vortigaunt update, they no longer heal as well but can now reliable PvP due to their beam being upgraded in general, so now they are the crutch against semi-competent OTA and absolutely smash CP's in general

it doesn't help that outside of the CZ, this entire map is a gigantic one way hallway so if the CP's / OTA see you, you see them, and there are no ways to really ambush / setup reliable traps, so you have to beat them using crutches

the crutch of choice is mass numbers (rebels in packs like in towerfuck), and vorts in general

 

[Headcrab]

sounds like a whole lotta hoopla

 

[Robert]

Correcting myself on one thing from last night: OTA only get the ability to get back up in combat if their opponent is with overwhelming numbers for example, the 5 OTA vs 20+ resistance fight.

Anyway, reading through there is not much I disagree with what's been said. Vortigaunts is something we are looking to nerf by a reasonable margin but that will take a bit of time as the dev who is assigned to that is still finishing up GOI meaning the server is looking for temp solutions to the whole CvR problem that happens pretty much daily and the general populace who is not a rebel is pretty tired of. The infestation as I did mention was one of their only fun things as of late while everything else was a pure and plain annoyance.

Overall I wanted to point out that the reason we are mainly against doing this change is that if godmode is disabled for one side, it should be disabled for everyone. If not, then enabled for everyone equally. It is easier to fix the one HP bug that has been brought up then it is to try and suddenly add an exception in the code for OTA as ngl, isn't as easy as adding a faction check or something like that due to the way bleedout and godmode is handled- would require a whole lot more effort vs one bug fix.

I am fine with OTA not being able to re-enter combat after being downed since they should not being doing so unless special circumstances call for it like what I put at the very beginning.

As for the upcoming gameplay changes and why I get I annoyed by this posting is the fact that we already have a major background project being worked on as per my mention of the current gameplay loop as we all know it being ripped out and replaced. Since the key issue is not OTA, not CPs being underpowered or Resistance being as they are- or even the vorts... though vorts do contribute to some issues more often than not. But to everyone we have had as our Data composers and done all the analytics of the server have all pointed at one specific area of the server that is the gameplay loop is just RPG grind 101 which we have known for ages and even to this day, no one has bothered to fix it.

Until recently that is where some of us finally got off our ass after a long day of work to go "Lets just rewrite the gameplay from scratch" which is what we are aiming for. GOI is just one major update out of many + the new gunskill system is coming in soon and a few other changes awaiting to flood the server one by one.

As for what changes, I won't state just yet as I would prefer a more structured posting for that.

 

[ItsLiam]

As for the upcoming gameplay changes and why I get I annoyed by this posting is the fact that we already have a major background project being worked on as per my mention of the current gameplay loop as we all know it being ripped out and replaced. Since the key issue is not OTA, not CPs being underpowered or Resistance being as they are- or even the vorts... though vorts do contribute to some issues more often than not. But to everyone we have had as our Data composers and done all the analytics of the server have all pointed at one specific area of the server that is the gameplay loop is just RPG grind 101 which we have known for ages and even to this day, no one has bothered to fix it.

Until recently that is where some of us finally got off our ass after a long day of work to go "Lets just rewrite the gameplay from scratch" which is what we are aiming for. GOI is just one major update out of many + the new gunskill system is coming in soon and a few other changes awaiting to flood the server one by one.

As for what changes, I won't state just yet as I would prefer a more structured posting for that.

I'm sorry Robert, but none of us know anything about what happens behind the scenes and the background projects because players never get to have any say in it. Shit, the "new" Rebel Representative system hasn't even been worked on and the old one didn't allow the players to have any say in anything besides the occasional rant/complaints.

You can't fault us for making complaint threads when we are being threatened with bans if we continue complaining in our rebel chat, and when we come here we also get faulted for making complaint threads and apparently we should've guessed that it was being worked on even though none of us have access to any knowledge.

Correcting myself on one thing from last night: OTA only get the ability to get back up in combat if their opponent is with overwhelming numbers for example, the 5 OTA vs 20+ resistance fight.

This is also wrong, we had 11 OTA + a Gunship vs 6 rebels (Tengu, Ultima, Willum, Me, Rislov and someone else) and OTA kept getting back up even after being downed and even while they have their infinite numbers and even while we were told there would be no reinforcements after our little project. OTA are just known for kind of being able to bend the rules to whatever they want, and since the OTA guidelines are more "Suggestions" than "Restrictions" and the OTA leads can ignore them whenever they want (See 11 OTA + a Gunship), it doesn't help their case.

And while we are on the topic of OTA, why are OTA guidelines private for OTA only? Why can't the rest of the server see when OTA is able to deploy and when they aren't? It's kind of funny how rules apply to everyone BUT OTA, and this is also one of the problems with the server.

 

[Zebra]

This is getting out of hand. Just let me shoot them when theyre down. Enough with the grabass talk.
I do my execution, i jump on their skull, shoot whatever, they die. No need to wait for gm

 

[Fentsoldier153]

This is getting out of hand. Just let me shoot them when theyre down. Enough with the grabass talk.
I do my execution, i jump on their skull, shoot whatever, they die. No need to wait for gm

I believe you can just do your /me and tell the GM that you already executed them whenever they accept your ticket, not sure though.

 

[Risvolto]

OTA only get the ability to get back up in combat if their opponent is with overwhelming numbers for example, the 5 OTA vs 20+ resistance fight.

they were reviving eachother in a 6 rebels (1 of them was a vort) vs 1 EOW, 1 APF, 1 Wallhammer, 3 normal overwatch (with ar2's), and 1 gunship. (This is as far as I could see, at least)

I am fine with OTA not being able to re-enter combat after being downed since they should not being doing so unless special circumstances call for it like what I put at the very beginning.

this could be another solution then.

 

[ultima]

they were reviving eachother in a 6 rebels (1 of them was a vort) vs 1 EOW, 1 APF, 1 Wallhammer, 3 normal overwatch (with ar2's), and 1 gunship. (This is as far as I could see, at least)

this could be another solution then.

it was 11 OTA with 4 specials (marksman, apf, wallhammer, eow) an ordinal and OWS + a gunship.
the deployment "suggestions" are a joke and the lead is allowed to ignore them whenever they please.
No one said anything, OTA were allowed to get back up and nowhere was it stated that OTA can only do it when outnumbered.

 

[Risvolto]

it was 11 OTA with 4 specials (marksman, apf, wallhammer, eow) an ordinal and OWS + a gunship.
the deployment "suggestions" are a joke and the lead is allowed to ignore them whenever they please.
No one said anything, OTA were allowed to get back up and nowhere was it stated that OTA can only do it when outnumbered.

Okay this is pretty funny.


"5 OTA"

@Shimac's Stew


POV: Your side did it (@Tengu )