Mugging for greed and why it's good

[ZeroPants]

Greed is one of the most powerful forces of evil in our world.

Villains both real and fictional have been motivated by greed. Greed doesn't always need to be about a desire for wealth, it could be about a desire for anything, like status or power. Greed is something everyone is susceptible to, its something that comes natural to most people.

As it stands, if a player wants to mug another player, the mugger must have a valid reason to perform a mugging, and the desire for wealth is not considered a valid reason. The only real ways players can perform a mugging is if the victim is in the wrong, like if the victim is a known loyalist or if the victim has done something bad to the mugger in the past.

This may sound like a dumb idea, but I think that players should be allowed to mug other players out of greed for one major reason:

Muggings create conflict, and conflict creates stories​

If there is anything the server lacks right now, it's actual antagonists that players can actually do something about. I know we have the combine and the CCA, but those aren't antagonists that your average citizen can actually put a stop to, muggers on the other hand are something players have a chance of stopping.

Getting mugged sucks, nobody likes losing their stuff if they didn't do anything to deserve losing it, but there is a positive side to getting mugged, by getting mugged, you will have the chance of taking revenge.

Let's say you walk into the slums, you aren't a loyalist, you haven't made any enemies, and all of a sudden someone holds you at gunpoint and takes your valuables. What do you choose to do after this happens? Wouldn't you do what you can to track down the mugger to take revenge? Who would you work with to do this? Would you turn to rebels for help or would you tell the CPs in hopes they do something? Doesn't that sound like it could be an interesting story for your character?

There are no stories without some sort of conflict, and while the initial conflict may suck to go through, the journey to overcome that conflict are what makes the story interesting. I'd prefer getting mugged if it meant I had an enemy I could work to take revenge on, that sounds more entertaining than sitting around all day waiting for work shifts, rations, and trash spawns.

Mugging a player comes with a cost, you may get some nice things by mugging people, but if you mug someone, the victim of your mugging would get the authorization to PK your character. So the more enemies you make, the greater the chances of getting killed. It is for this reason that I think that if greed muggings were allowed, they wouldn't be incredibly common, most players wouldn't want to risk giving other players PK auths on their character.

Muggers wouldn't be allowed to PK their victims during the mugging (because that doesn't create RP), however, the victim must abide by fear RP during the mugging, so the victim cannot fight back or stall until the mugging has been concluded.


I know this whole post might sound like a stupid idea, but I wanted to discuss the idea to see if anyone agrees or disagrees with me, and if anyone has any arguments against the idea. If you have any comments, I ask that you remain civil, I understand that this topic could spark some arguments, but this isn't the place for that.

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

Each day we come closer to DarkRP

 

[Cocohop]

I like the idea of mugging, but I don't agree with this section

Muggers wouldn't be allowed to PK their victims during the mugging (because that doesn't create RP), however, the victim must abide by fear RP during the mugging, so the victim cannot fight back or stall until the mugging has been concluded.

Less the 'PK', more the 'must abide by FearRP'. More artificial restrictions on how a character should behave, IMO, don't help roleplay. If someone wants to take the risk of legging it and getting shot, then by all means. Rebels can run away from CPs trying to search them & risk getting shot, I don't see how this is different.

Overall, ++ for mugging for greed, very fun idea & does add more antagonists as you mentioned.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

Watch Reacher season 2

 

[alessiodoomboy]

Muggings for greed work if everyone on board is solid at Roleplay and stuff, but the ruleset is very easily abusable by bad actors to ruin months and months of progress for the actual serious RPers and Staff Team will inevitably be in two sides about it because whilst everyone will agree the outcome was absolutely horrendous, what was done was technically allowed under the rules and therefore going back on it isn't possible.

Overall more trouble than it's worth.

Oh yeah, and also, for most muggings the story will end at the guy putting away their gun and running off with your scripts. The way masked rules work, at least, mean that if someone does that they won't be able to be identified.

 

[Robert]

This can work. The rule was orginally put in place to stop random muggings as at the time it was made, not many knew how to act other than open complaint threads about losing hard earned items to some dude they never met.

But i think it can change now without issue.

Though in fearrp terms, best not to as no one likes that dictating character behaviour. So all good except that.

 

[Rebel RP Philosopher]

Liked this post, yet want to learn more about greed on Willard?
Say no more with the follow up greed maxxing post of turning this gamemode into a mobile game!

How to run your DOB certified store like Amazon

 

[ultima]

naw

 

[Inspector Orlok]

Issue with the mugging rules right now is that they’re counter productive. If you’ve got reason to mug someone that means you’ve more than likely got reason to kill someone.

Why take the risk and mug them, giving them reason to hunt you down rather than just outright killing them, making them completely unaware of your true intentions.

And as for those who keeping saying “It feels bad losing scripts.” Yeah who would of thought that getting up to 5 of your items taken from you isn’t fun. Mugging isn’t meant to be a fair thing either, that’s why getting mugged is so scary.

If you’re getting mugged tough luck buddy, and if you’re the one doing the mugging, tough luck buddy, there’s always a bigger fish.

 

[ZeroPants]

I like the idea of mugging, but I don't agree with this section

Less the 'PK', more the 'must abide by FearRP'. More artificial restrictions on how a character should behave, IMO, don't help roleplay. If someone wants to take the risk of legging it and getting shot, then by all means. Rebels can run away from CPs trying to search them & risk getting shot, I don't see how this is different.

Though in fearrp terms, best not to as no one likes that dictating character behaviour. So all good except that.

The only reason I added that was because I was worried that we'd end up with a bunch of deaths from people resisting the mugging because they didn't want to lose their stuff, and keeping characters alive is what creates stories. I remember seeing a few deaths caused by players resisting muggings, like Alex Weaver, the character that was revived with extract during the black gold event only to get killed in the slums after he tried stalling for time during a mugging.

 

[ItsLiam]

And as for those who keeping saying “It feels bad losing scripts.” Yeah who would of thought that getting up to 5 of your items taken from you isn’t fun. Mugging isn’t meant to be a fair thing either, that’s why getting mugged is so scary.

Maybe don't walk into the slums wearing your Tier-7 armband, diamond rolex watch and gucci sunglasses and expect to walk away with it.

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

Proponents of not allowing muggings live in a perpetual bubble where they believe that a) a person can die and lose everything at any time in our setting with no warning and reason whatsoever, and b) you aren't allowed to lose anything if they're a fellow human.

It promotes risk, violence, and banditry, themes that are congruous with the server's bleak setting, especially in the ghetto slums where groups deliberately eschew them from the Combine's governance and safety, most with peace of mind to their surroundings; if all people cared about were the consequences, such as being deprived of their valuables, then we wouldn't have raids, permanent deaths, and conflict with the Combine, whose encounters often leave people feeling bitter and indignant at the loss of their characters or items.

If that were the case, then similar to banditry rp, raids and forays into each other's territories should be forbidden, as they carry a natural risk and vulnerability to the receiving party, an act which can be described only as unfair, malicious, and wrongfully punitive. That obviously isn't the case, so what difference does it make if someone loses their month-long effort to either a bandit or a CP?

Muggings for greed work if everyone on board is solid at Roleplay and stuff, but the ruleset is very easily abusable by bad actors to ruin months and months of progress for the actual serious RPers and Staff Team will inevitably be in two sides about it because whilst everyone will agree the outcome was absolutely horrendous, what was done was technically allowed under the rules and therefore going back on it isn't possible.

Overall more trouble than it's worth.

Oh yeah, and also, for most muggings the story will end at the guy putting away their gun and running off with your scripts. The way masked rules work, at least, mean that if someone does that they won't be able to be identified.

Nothing is without its bad actors. Does this mean we should remove Civil Protection because, occasionally, there is misconduct and abuse within the faction? No. Is there a faction or community without a few renegade players ruining things for others? No. There is by no means a method for stopping acts of bad faith against others in all kinds of circumstances, but that doesn't invalidate the entire system. There are dedicated forums for this exact purpose on Willard to identify and remove these bad actors if they can't be done through traditional in-character means. Just because you can't expend the effort to use the complaint & report system doesn't mean the whole thought process is rotten.

If people want to protect themselves from acts of banditry, there'd be more reason than ever to identify with a group; likewise, if rebels hope to maintain their popular support, they might be forced to stop acts of banditry where they see fit, lest they drive people into the arms of the Combine. Juxtapose this with the possibility that groups of bandits could form or a rebel group may start to take supplies from the local population forcibly, and you have significantly more conflict in the supposed lawless zone that is the slums that both Civil Protection and mainstream rebel groups need to be wary of.


Ultimately, if you're ever mugged, then congratulations. You're just like any other blud in downtown London.

 

[Inspector Orlok]

Maybe don't walk into the slums wearing your Tier-7 armband, diamond rolex watch and gucci sunglasses and expect to walk away with it.

Yeah, that's my point...

 

[Sevens]

Maybe don't walk into the slums wearing your Tier-7 armband, diamond rolex watch and gucci sunglasses and expect to walk away with it.

When I wasn't staff. a loyalist walked into slums. My character started mugging them. The first thing they did was /LOOC "WHAT NO!!!! YOU CAN'T MUG FOR ITEMS!!! NOOO!!!!"

 

[ItsLiam]

When I wasn't staff. a loyalist walked into slums. My character started mugging them. The first thing they did was /LOOC "WHAT NO!!!! YOU CAN'T MUG FOR ITEMS!!! NOOO!!!!"

Loyalists scare me... Their brainrot... gr...

 

[Neonity]

The topic of muggings is always controversial, regardless of game or gamemode. But they’re deemed a necessity nonetheless, and we have no plans to remove them entirely.

On one hand, there needs to be some degree of risk for walking into the slums with a fancy Rolex.

On the other, nobody likes losing their items, and muggings create a frustrating environment to play in because you just spent 16 hours getting that Rolex just to have it snatched away in the blink of an eye. It will be very difficult to be optimistic about this, regardless of the “conflict” it creates.

The reason we specifically disallow, and exclusively disallow mugging for greed is because we expect a higher standard of roleplay for these muggings. Considering getting mugged is not fun for the victim, we expect, in good faith, that the mugger has a good reason to target said individual for their item(s) that extend beyond just wanting the cool script.

This reason does not have to be overly complicated, but the only thing we expect from the player is that they are able to justify why their character needs that particular item and why they are willing to do such a risky action for it. Needing someone’s jacket to stay warm because you don’t have one? Good enough reason. Works for me. Mugging someone for a piece of iron purely because it’s a rare resource? Not good enough. Mugging someone for a piece of iron because your faction urgently needs it for a project? Yeah, that works.

On another note though, we’ve noticed muggings tend to very rapidly escalate to violence and murder, because of people taking advantage of a loophole situation allowing them to take all items from a person as opposed to just 5 if they let them live. Obviously not ideal.

Finally, I will open a staff-specific discussion thread for this particular topic in which we will discuss solutions and ideas presented in this thread, and those originating from staff. If we have a consensus, it will be made known here.

 

[M!NT]

Mugging a player comes with a cost, you may get some nice things by mugging people, but if you mug someone, the victim of your mugging would get the authorization to PK your character. So the more enemies you make, the greater the chances of getting killed. It is for this reason that I think that if greed muggings were allowed, they wouldn't be incredibly common, most players wouldn't want to risk giving other players PK auths on their character.

+1

There are no stories without some sort of conflict, and while the initial conflict may suck to go through, the journey to overcome that conflict are what makes the story interesting. I'd prefer getting mugged if it meant I had an enemy I could work to take revenge on, that sounds more entertaining than sitting around all day waiting for work shifts, rations, and trash spawns.

This. I've always said that conflict is the heart of any good story.

 

[ItsLiam]

As an unbiased person here due to my affiliations within the Combine (Prestigious CP whitelist), I will have to say that this is a good idea.

 

[Lost Coast Chanties]

Maybe don't walk into the slums wearing your Tier-7 armband, diamond rolex watch and gucci sunglasses and expect to walk away with it.

 

[boots]

The first time I joined the server, I was "lured" into an apartment under the false pretence that I was with friends, where I was subsequently robbed for all my starter gear and stabbed to death regardless of my cooperation (I gave them everything I had), to be NLR'd and have a fresh character with absolutely nothing.

Didn't join for 6 months after that. So don't blame me when I think mugging for greed is not good.