Change how OTA work in combat

[ultima]

The ability for OTA to be completely exempt of the rule that "you can't return back to a fight after being downed" is completely and utterly stupid.
While only needing 20 HP to get up from bleedout (compared to a normal persons 33, or a vortigaunts 66). They can practically do permanent human wave tactics, without even having to send more than 1 wave, outfitted with some of the most busted healing items (health vials, morphine) it takes less than a minute for a soldier to get off of the ground and be back up to 100+ hp the moment they repair their armor.

Compared to non-ota players, who are forced to sit in a corner and wait for 15 minutes as everyone else dies, or having to run away and abandon their friends because they are oocly tied from retaliating.

I think this is extremely overpowered when comparing it to normal players, considering that OTA are already equipped with the most armor, the best weapons, and having 5 grenades for every soldier. (in squads that average 6-8-10-12, or, most of the time they just wing it and do whatever they want, because no one can really say anything considering guidelines are private so that you can't hold the players accountable)

Now, you can say "but ota are super mega powergame soldier characters with hubba bubba augmentations they don't have to follow the rules!!!" - A quote by the mentally ill.
And I think that's insane, considering most of the time, you WILL die to OTA and god forbid you hold back their average response of up to three waves, you won't even get any rewards for doing so (or if you do, it will be breadcrumbs comparing to what was spent.)
So, closing this off. If you won't even give people rewards for beating the most overtuned faction on the server, at least remove their ability to just powergame and roll over you. Dead OTA isn't the disaster that staff think it is, and it frankly does not affect the server at all.

(and no, this won't make OTA not be a threat, instead they'll have to actually stop w+m1ing everyone and everything)

 

[BrennenW05]

Then we should address those problems when it comes to it, not scream for a nerf of a faction that barely gets seen outside of extreme circumstances. This is actually the same situation I had with my faction, the conscripts. Rebels absolutely complained out the ass about them because they got good gear and actually were a force to be reckoned with, as proven being deployed along side OTA, they are literally just weaker, more organized OTA soldiers, they are currently undergoing reform to be a more solid part of the server but they basically are just weaker OTA, using the same tactics and rules. Because of that they can literally just instantly be replenished; unlike the rebels who cannot.

my view on it, is that OTA are perfectly fine right now. Other than the rejoining combat after getting downed, I think that the rule in itself is dumb, sitting in a corner waiting to die, isn't very fun or good rp. But as long as it is in effect, it should be for all players.

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

my view on it, is that OTA are perfectly fine right now. Other than the rejoining combat after getting downed, I think that the rule in itself is dumb, sitting in a corner waiting to die, isn't very fun or good rp. But as long as it is in effect, it should be for all players.

In a way it is kind of dumb but if you wanna play it by logic, there's a saying thats been a staple for many, many years in the hl2 rp community regarding overwatch.

"They will run until their legs break, and then keep running until they cannot anymore. They will fight until they sustain so much damage that all of their organs are missing. They are robots made of human flesh."

However this also opens up the whole issue. If OTA cannot rejoin combat until they actually die. You're going to be fighting wave 2 and then 3 and then 4 MUCH quick then fighting just wave 1 which is usually just simple grunts. Anyway I'll check back on this tomorrow, for now I must sleep.

 

[ultima]

I watched it today, you guys literally have 6 AR2's spread among 3 groups. thats approximately 2 per group that is FAR more then what the OTA deploy with, as they are limit to I believe it was 1 AR2 on wave 2 and 2 AR2s on wave 4 with a wallhammer and APF

talking out of your ass for this one (every ota gets an ar2 unless they are a trial, and even then trials get ar2's during big moments, every wave of ota also gets a special, and the max waves ota can send at you is 3. because they have a 15 minute timer between each wave and the crime timer doesnt go above 45

stop pulling shit out of your ass to justify yourself


also theres literally only 2 ar2's in circulation and the ammo is scarce and almost non-existant. (because you don't get rewarded for killing OTA, which is the only way to get pulse ammo without bankrupting yourself)

 

[Astro]

Hi.

I don't like OTA being able to rejoin the fight as a lead.

Why?

It extends waves, instead of me being able to send out fully restocked units. Also, OTA doesn't need the god mode, we're purely event characters. Once we go down, honestly, we should get slayed. Though if that happens, I'll have to play around with the numbers.

Though currently, OTA can deploy under very specific circumstances, and only if rebels start dipping their toes into the inner districts. Or if a vortigaunt is walking around, obviously.

 

[The Milkman]

FAR more then what the OTA deploy with, as they are limit to I believe it was 1 AR2 on wave 2 and 2 AR2s on wave 4 with a wallhammer and APF

LOL I wish

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

talking out of your ass for this one (every ota gets an ar2 unless they are a trial, and even then trials get ar2's during big moments, every wave of ota also gets a special, and the max waves ota can send at you is 3. because they have a 15 minute timer between each wave and the crime timer doesnt go above 45

stop pulling shit out of your ass to justify yourself


also theres literally only 2 ar2's in circulation and the ammo is scarce and almost non-existant. (because you don't get rewarded for killing OTA, which is the only way to get pulse ammo without bankrupting yourself)

There's not 2 in circulation i was literally down there 3 weeks ago and there were 4 AR2s present among a massive gathering of rebels. The ammo may not exist but the firearms still exist. And the rule's been changed apparently because last I checked the squad of OTA that deployed alongside my faction was 90% SMG's even the fucking ordinal didn't have an AR2 the dude was running a overwatch carbine. Which i guess is more powerful then the AR2 I dunno. Either way. 3 waves. Don't focus on just the wah wah bullshit you're picking out. Maybe learn to actually address the actual issues. Like the armament of OTA... Or maybe the fact the OTA don't drop rewards. Remember the GM's dont look at the ammo count, they look at the armament. But I digress. Im not pulling shit out of my ass. I'm using slightly outdated information, I run a fucking combine faction that WORKS along side OTA, its been a very long while since we've actually deployed due to various issues.

 

[ultima]

There's not 2 in circulation i was literally down there 3 weeks ago and there were 4 AR2s present among a massive gathering of rebels. The ammo may not exist but the firearms still exist. And the rule's been changed apparently because last I checked the squad of OTA that deployed alongside my faction was 90% SMG's even the fucking ordinal didn't have an AR2 the dude was running a overwatch carbine. Which i guess is more powerful then the AR2 I dunno. Either way. 3 waves. Don't focus on just the wah wah bullshit you're picking out. Maybe learn to actually address the actual issues. Like the armament of OTA... Or maybe the fact the OTA don't drop rewards. Remember the GM's dont look at the ammo count, they look at the armament. But I digress. Im not pulling shit out of my ass. I'm using slightly outdated information, I run a fucking combine faction that WORKS along side OTA, its been a very long while since we've actually deployed due to various issues.

"im not pulling shit out of my ass"
"im using slightly outdated information"

which is it?

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

talking out of your ass for this one (every ota gets an ar2 unless they are a trial, and even then trials get ar2's during big moments, every wave of ota also gets a special, and the max waves ota can send at you is 3. because they have a 15 minute timer between each wave and the crime timer doesnt go above 45

stop pulling shit out of your ass to justify yourself


also theres literally only 2 ar2's in circulation and the ammo is scarce and almost non-existant. (because you don't get rewarded for killing OTA, which is the only way to get pulse ammo without bankrupting yourself)

There's not 2 in circulation i was literally down there 3 weeks ago and there were 4 AR2s present among a massive gathering of rebels. The ammo may not exist but the firearms still exist. And the rule's been changed apparently because last I checked the squad of OTA that deployed alongside my faction was 90% SMG's even the fucking ordinal didn't have an AR2 the dude was running a overwatch carbine. Which i guess is more powerful then the AR2 I dunno. Either way. 3 waves. Don't focus on just the wah wah bullshit you're picking out. Maybe learn to actually address the actual issues. Like the armament of OTA... Or maybe the fact the OTA don't drop rewards. Remember the GM's dont look at the ammo count, they look at the armament. But I digress. Im not pulling shit out of my ass, you dildo. I'm using slightly outdated information, I run a fucking combine faction that WORKS along side OTA, its been a very long while since we've actually deployed due to various issues.

"im not pulling shit out of my ass"
"im using slightly outdated information"

which is it?

Im not conjuring up information that never existed. Which constitutes "im not pulling shit out of my ass"

The information DID exist and was correct, at a point. meaning its slightly outdated. Which then constitutes "Im using slightly outdated information"

:think: Ya know maybe actually focus on the issues with rebels having such stupid needs to FLEX by running into the city to chase down wounded cops when they retreat. Rather then complaining about OTA rolling up every time some idiot bombs the city and triggers a fractured sociostability.

 

[ultima]

:think: Ya know maybe actually focus on the issues with rebels having such stupid needs to FLEX by running into the city to chase down wounded cops when they retreat. Rather then complaining about OTA rolling up every time some idiot bombs the city and triggers a fractured sociostability.

again you imagine a false scenario that never happened that has nothing to do with the post. please stop responding to this thread you're just derailing it.

 

[ThomasK110]

(Which is part of why my faction got absolutely fucking SHIT STOMPED by rebels. We were using tactics and then they just fucking run in expecting us to act like OTA)

Shut the fuck up bro we didn't even get trained

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

You know in the long run, now that im looking back and actually thinking about the regulations discussed by me and past OTA leads. I think Astro actually has a point. The constant rejoining of combat is a hindrance to the faction. Prevents them from actually sending in restocked units, in wave after wave. Which is a bad thing for the overwatch as a whole. Stop this rule, the original focus of the fourm post. Is actually a good idea, because if you look at it, it sort of levels out, because after a prolonged fight, the OTA can just restock, regroup, and come back with more fuck you firepower. And well.. They already know the vort cave exists, as do all the other hide outs in the canals. There's nothing really stopping them from retaliating at any point after the original crime. So yeah. We should change this rule. Make it so the OTA cant rejoin combat and have to retreat to bring in more.

 

[Neonity]

I'm using slightly outdated information

The last time regular OTA (aka non-trial members) deployed with SMGs was around November 2021. The guidelines changed shortly after I became the OTA faction lead and have remained to this very day.

The Ordinal Rifle (aka SR-1 Carbine) is in fact stronger than an AR-2.

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

The last time regular OTA (aka non-trial members) deployed with SMGs was around November 2021. The guidelines changed shortly after I became the OTA faction lead and have remained to this very day.

The Ordinal Rifle (aka SR-1 Carbine) is in fact stronger than an AR-2.

Yeah im not sure why the fuck the OTA deployed with SMGs when we went into the lighthouse then. Cause one did have a SMG the other a SR-1. Which confused me but i didn't question it at the time. Either way. Yeah its very. Very. Outdated info.

 

[Astro]

Yeah im not sure why the fuck the OTA deployed with SMGs when we went into the lighthouse then. Cause one did have a SMG the other a SR-1. Which confused me but i didn't question it at the time. Either way. Yeah its very. Very. Outdated info.

Trials are still confined to the SMG.

 

[Vadim]

never before have worse takes been seen on willard.
combine propaganda has won OOC.

 

[Dr. Ternith Plague]

As someone who's in Civil Protection...

What?

Mate, I've seen Rebels literally steamroll Civil Protection before. You hit a bear, the bear's gonna hit back. And it's not gonna be pretty.

But if Astro and whoever wants it changed, then, yeah, don't see why not.

 

[AppleFlavoredFox]

As someone who's in Civil Protection...

What?

Mate, I've seen Rebels literally steamroll Civil Protection before. You hit a bear, the bear's gonna hit back. And it's not gonna be pretty.

But if Astro and whoever wants it changed, then, yeah, don't see why not.

Honestly its not worth it to try and argue against the fact that rebels (I myself at one point having the same mind set) are complaining about OTA rules. When, the server has almost entirely made updates to HELP rebels, and as a result a lot of balance issues arose on their side. Now everyone and their mother has an automatic weapon like an AK or other rifle. And a set of armor. But one digresses. This thread is about nerfing OTA, but god forbid someone make a thread about nerfing the rebels again to make it a little bit more fair. I've been part of the community since early bottlestreet. So i've seen the ups and downs of the rebel balancing have been massive. But there's been little to no nerf (in recent months) that affects rebel productivity/combat capability in a massive way. Resulting in a skyrocket of rebel efficiency in combat. (see the most recent galunga update)

So sure. Why not, remove the OTA rule that they can just go back into combat. Make that a little bit more fair. But as usual someone will bitch about something else when things don't go their way. So its only a temporary fix.

Edit: Oh right. Sorry. I forgot the complaints are always consistant with something that doesn't go the way of the rebels. I bet, you can look through absolutely every suggestion in the fourms, and the ratio of rebel complaints to OTA/CP complaints/suggestions to nerf. Are alot more on the CP or OTA oriented side, where they call for nerfs to the civil protection faction or CWU or OTA. Citizen rp already suffers HORRIBLY, as a result of the rebels constantly bitch slapping and steam rolling the Civil protection.. I am purely asking, why call for a fix like this rather then a fix to maybe.. (And this is a suggestion not something we SHOULD do) De-saturate the rebel market by removing the smuggler NPCs, get rebels to actually contribute to the economy again by going and buying from stores or other citizens.

 

[Fallizs]

 

[Donavin Jones]

Guys, guys. I didn't read anything, but hear me out here.

Simply avoid fighting OTA when you can, and only fight them when you must or if you can.
I know that sounds stupid. But truth be told, if you don't fight ota and run. Eventually OTA will just give up and stop chasing. Unlike what they are depicted in the game, someone with emotions is controlling them.​

 

[Robert]

Okay, I am going to close this post after this message but I wanted to be very adamantly clear about something in terms of Gameplay and the way the server works.

To start with, the Server is first and foremost an CityRP server based on the world of HL2 with some custom shizzle mixed in. Reason I bring this up is because by being a CityRP server it means that the Combine will always sit on top and I do believe Asimo once posted a lovely massive post somewhere for Rebels to read on why the "Rebel W" is impossible.

This isn't mean to say the gameplay is made unfair on purpose nor is it designed to be unfun for Rebels in any particular way, its just that its an acknowledgement Rebels can never kill off the Combine unless being in a specific time destined for an uprising (Aka, whenever we do switch away from current Willard to V3/Radioworks).

Overall, I wanted to make it clear why OTA act the way they do in the current Meta. Atm, OTA are at best what people describe as easy to kill squishy soldiers that currently have an issue with its member counts and activity. To counter the issue of OTA deployments being oddly low on number and trying to make sure they can deal some damage in big attacks, we have to make them exempt from some guidelines and rulings to ensure they can function to the best of their ability. You may say 6 OTA per wave is fair but when you look into it, it really isn't especially not against larger groups of Rebels and especially when CPs themselves won't dare fight Rebels as at best they all have USPs 99% of the time.

The CP leads and OTA leads respectively have voiced a general disdain for the current Rebel scene and the fact its current power calls for some changes once more for the 7th time. For what form these changes will take is unknown in scope but we do at least know that we want the Combine to be far more of a threat and increase how effectively it can respond to the Resistance without breaking the good ol "The Combine are slow to wake..." statement of the game.

However, I do want to make it clear that in current circumstances before these changes even come, OTA do need to act as they are now just to even have a hope of dishing out some damage. GMs often have to help OTA out by deploying their own Combine forces in forms of NPCs or even controlling Gunships and Hunter Choppers just to be sure the OTA don't get stomped, but low and behold, they still do here and there quite often, even when support is given.

Rebels are encouraged to use guerrilla tactics as open warfare should be all means be a death sentence and retreat should be a requirement in some situations. Vorts of course cause a much larger problem since it has bee noted and will be honest about this that Krah has been listed as an Anomaly when it comes to gameplay balancing, showing just how powerful Vorts are and why CPs 90% of the time do not wish to fight Rebels because they are so outclassed and outgunned the moment a single high tier rebel or just a mere naked vort enters the field because they already know a one shot beam is coming their way.

Its gotten to the point where the Combine don't want to even send OTA out anymore just to deal with the Resistance given the amount of actions they have performed as of late and the broken balance between Rebels and Combine as the Combine side has balanced itself for what was supposed to be the new meta of where everyone was equal, but some groups have managed to smash right through it as to no ones surprise. And if you want to know what else could they send if not OTA? Well pretty much they were approved to send out OSA if shit continues as is as the only alternative to push back Rebels.

---

Of course, some one will call out a slight issue with the above. "But when Rebels get pushed back and stopped doing things, Staff complain at us for not doing anything even though we were forced not to!!!!!!". I wanted to address this because its the same back and forth that both sides frankly use often as a defence for bad behaviour since seems no one can utilize self-control in this regard nor self-balancing to find a middle ground of how to fight and not die (Aka tactics and strategy) and how much to go for in a single sitting.

Reason I mention that is because more often than not, the people using the aforementioned statement are those who will either rush in for the kill or not at all. Basically one extreme to the other extreme, doing too much or nothing. They hold no middle spot of "Okay, lets take out some units today and pull back for a week or two so we don't attract Overwatch" or "Let's quickly hit this inbound OTA sweep and then gtfo to the Outlands to hide for a while."

And of course, as I just said, that applies to Combine too. They sometimes push too much, lose any advantage and perish. Lack of coordination too sometimes and all round mess, or don't push at all as lost all hope and yeah. Both sides are basically stuck in a constant "I MUST WIN" mentality which is a gigantic detriment to both RP, Gameplay and Balancing. We fixed the PK rules even to feed a bit more leeway into such so people can enjoy things without losing their char all their years of hard work in a single firefight, but I think there is still this very balancing thing to address, the lack of QC when it comes to OTA and Rebels, the general grind and just removing it as its a pain in everyones arse, more so staff given its one of the main reasons for some peoples shitty behaviour, etc.

That is all I wanted to say, but yes, OTA returning to the fight is intended due to a bit of wonky balancing, anomalies in the server that are far too OP for the standard wave system to handle and too many opponents at once causing GMs to be forced to hop in and play Combine just to get even.