Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Deaths should never = an Insta PK, anywhere.

Noh

I LOVE CITRUS!
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
173
Most of the staff know this already, but I hate the idea that getting killed by an Antlion in the sewers = a pk is cringe. Dying in a raid as a CP to rebels shouldn't be an instant PK. Rebels dying to a CP raid shouldn't be an instant PK. So on, so forth.

There's never medical RP, or injury RP, as everyone just dies if U get shot on the foot in TBC, and chest wounds, while yes fatal, are definitely survivable now with the medicine that even rebels have. So, my suggestion is that Insta-PK's for death shouldn't be a thing and that if a person goes down it should be all about Injury RP.

As it'll create Roleplay for CMU, Rebels, Citizens, CPs, etc, etc. Plus, it'll make it fairer overall in case you die to some BS inside TBC, S2K, etc. You shouldn't have to make a PK Appeal because you couldn't feasibly react to a situation thanks to outside factors such as broken NPCs, TBC, S2K, etc. Not every gunshot wound, hit with a pipe, stab with a knife, is 100% fatal like we have it now.

Plus, I am open to talking about this, so post your thoughts below.
 
I'm not sure where you're going with this, do you want people to be tpd to a place where they can be fixed after dying to prevent immediate death or am i simply dumb?
 
I'm not sure where you're going with this, do you want people to be tpd to a place where they can be fixed after dying to prevent immediate death or am i simply dumb?
Essentially. Atm, there's no RP involved with getting shot 40 times, as you just hit yourself with a syringe and get back up. And 90% of the time people never react to it. Or you die because 1 pixel of flame touched u in your downed state.

But, if it starts being enforced that you took an injury instead of a full-on death - then it promotes more RP for essentially all factions who may get into a fight, minus I'd say OTA possibly. Course, a PK is still there - as anyone can just come over, RP with you in your weakened/downed state, and kill you fully. But then it's a matter of people being able to properly react to the situation instead.

It's cringe if you just die after months of RP, then an admin just goes 'sorry, you were in sewers ;/' right?
 
If someone is able to carry your body out of the sewers there should be no pk. Such as when I lost my character due to an ambush of antlions during a cwu shift and won an appeal stating injury was possible.

However that risk of death should live on in the sewers. We don’t want people thinking they can just go in there and boom injury rp yadadada no pk
 
If someone is able to carry your body out of the sewers there should be no pk. Such as when I lost my character due to an ambush of antlions during a cwu shift and won an appeal stating injury was possible.

However that risk of death should live on in the sewers. We don’t want people thinking they can just go in there and boom injury rp yadadada no pk
Sewers are a place that can risk death, sure. I can understand if a player v. player interaction took place, sides fought, yadda yadda. But 9/10 times that happens admins are overlooking it so, so it can be moderated.

It's definitely an instance-based situation. So maybe if a lone rebel wanders around down there and gets ganked by 2-4 Antlion NPCs, sure. But if a group has like 2-3 people? It's feasible to live in that situation, as others can react.
 
Going off of this, death would be so rare and so determinate that the server would rapidly stagnate into absolute predictability. Firstly, lets explore why PK's are a thing, and what benefits they actually bring.

1. The hard, perhaps unkind, truth of PK's is that they exist in part to filter characters and stories out the door so that others may take their place. Its a natural and efficient way of making sure the server is not stagnated with the exact same people, doing the exact same things, forever. As characters die, new ones take their place. Moreover, those that survive those characters grow and prosper from that death themselves. Ideals change, motives shift and mindsets get altered.

2. PK's are very much around to prevent people from acting like idiots. Players are players, and if not given appropriate threats of permanent discontinuation, will often start doing things without any thought or risk management whatsoever. They'll commit to plans they never would if otherwise mortal and will act in such a way that cheapens interactions.

Now, as far as the more technical part of this - it still doesn't work.

Firstly, bleedouts are indiscriminate and always happen upon being downed. So, the idea of not getting a chance isn't really true. As far as systems go, that just varies. TBC has loads of flaws, but it still functionally works. Deaths via it are very often genuine. NPC deaths is something not everyone agrees with, but I actually support them on the grounds it makes encounters with them significantly more dangerous. NPC's are mostly jokes who are endlessly limited by Source. Having that extra bit of gravity for them helps alleviate that a bit. While also making dangerous parts of the world/map feel actually dangerous.

All that being said, It wouldn't be the worst thing to enable bleedout godmode, and do away with the timer. So that randomly executing and PK'ing players is at least a little classy with RP. Problem is people will abuse this in combat pretty often which makes it far less appealing in practice. There's also the fact that death will still occur, just in an extended form. While its often nice to avoid PK's where possible, if a full kit, hostile rebel gets captured - he's dead. In cases like that, a swift death that doesn't take hours may be preferred by them.

Not every gunshot wound, hit with a pipe, stab with a knife, is 100% fatal like we have it now.

Also a pretty poor angle, since it takes multiple strikes from all things to down someone. Only the OP snipers that no one has can one-shot people.
 
Deaths to NPCs shouldn't be a PK, being NLR'd should work just fine with that I think. There's still plenty of risk involved.

Mostly everything else is fair game imo
 
Deaths to NPC's not being a PK I could maybe get around. But our PK rules are already so lax and convoluted that relaxing them even more would be extremely detrimental to the server. Refer to RedHot's post since he basically sums up every objection I have.

In fact, I would personally like to see a blanket 'PK on every roleplayed death' rule, that every faction has to adhere to, including cops. For cops, we might already be working towards this.
 
Most of the staff know this already, but I hate the idea that getting killed by an Antlion in the sewers = a pk is cringe. Dying in a raid as a CP to rebels shouldn't be an instant PK. Rebels dying to a CP raid shouldn't be an instant PK. So on, so forth.

There's never medical RP, or injury RP, as everyone just dies if U get shot on the foot in TBC, and chest wounds, while yes fatal, are definitely survivable now with the medicine that even rebels have. So, my suggestion is that Insta-PK's for death shouldn't be a thing and that if a person goes down it should be all about Injury RP.

As it'll create Roleplay for CMU, Rebels, Citizens, CPs, etc, etc. Plus, it'll make it fairer overall in case you die to some BS inside TBC, S2K, etc. You shouldn't have to make a PK Appeal because you couldn't feasibly react to a situation thanks to outside factors such as broken NPCs, TBC, S2K, etc. Not every gunshot wound, hit with a pipe, stab with a knife, is 100% fatal like we have it now.

Plus, I am open to talking about this, so post your thoughts below.
I as a medical rper would love to see this become normalized honestly. Though there's several logistics issues with it and as maroon said. The rules are already lax. However I personally would like to request that if possible. People can opt in to having their character possibly saved, like i did with Defender-0 after the raid on our base. He was fucking destroyed but i created rp by asking the admin overseeing it to tp him back so he can be treated by my rebel medic character. Which lead to some cool rp with the CP's. And later down the line he thanked me for saving his life.
 
Does it not already take several shots or multiple hits from npcs to kill someone? That should be plenty to realistically kill someone in one situation. I'd imagine with this system, most who gets swarmed by antlions, or magdumped in a firefight will just say that they're mildly wounded, slap a bandage on it and walk it off.
 
its funny cause my character was literally was in one of the sweeps this week and OTA was running around like it was a game of COD. S2K being on for sweeps really favours CP/OTA factions seeing how it gets turned on for events involving to them, but during say an outlands shift or event where rebels are clearing zombies it says on TBC.
 
One time as a RL I got killed during a botched raid on some rebs. But luckily @AppleFlavoredFox 's rebel actually RP'd dragging me off and fixing me up, so I got my PK un-done and TP'd to them. It led to some pretty cool RP.

^ basically just an example of what you could do.

Edit: whoops, just saw that they already recounted that tale above. O well
 
Last edited:
Most of the staff know this already, but I hate the idea that getting killed by an Antlion in the sewers = a pk is cringe. Dying in a raid as a CP to rebels shouldn't be an instant PK. Rebels dying to a CP raid shouldn't be an instant PK. So on, so forth.

There's never medical RP, or injury RP, as everyone just dies if U get shot on the foot in TBC, and chest wounds, while yes fatal, are definitely survivable now with the medicine that even rebels have. So, my suggestion is that Insta-PK's for death shouldn't be a thing and that if a person goes down it should be all about Injury RP.

As it'll create Roleplay for CMU, Rebels, Citizens, CPs, etc, etc. Plus, it'll make it fairer overall in case you die to some BS inside TBC, S2K, etc. You shouldn't have to make a PK Appeal because you couldn't feasibly react to a situation thanks to outside factors such as broken NPCs, TBC, S2K, etc. Not every gunshot wound, hit with a pipe, stab with a knife, is 100% fatal like we have it now.

Plus, I am open to talking about this, so post your thoughts below.

This is all such a good idea.
 
PK's make it way more intense and actually make people act somewhat realistically. If PK's in combat were removed, you'd see CPs rushing rebels like it's CSGO and vice-versa.
However, instead of PK's, there could be other repercussions. CPs already lose rank but that's not that big of a deal honestly. A cool thing could be a limited amount of temporary PK's, like 3 or something.

A lot of NPCs are broken in TBC so I think having PK's removed for deaths against NPCs is OK but still kind of gay because it will undermine the danger of the sewers/underground. I think admins should know at this point which NPCs are broken and which are not.
 
Going off of this, death would be so rare and so determinate that the server would rapidly stagnate into absolute predictability. Firstly, lets explore why PK's are a thing, and what benefits they actually bring.
I can agree with you there, it would stagnant to an extent. But IMO, it'd create longer-lasting RP for Rebels, CPs, Citizens, etc. Plus, it's not like im saying 'you cannot kill a downed person, you can, it'd just have to be thoroughly rpd out so that the death is genuine to a person.

As I just don't find a situation where you are downed, with a giant timer in your face in a black screen changing to 'you are dead' due to someone shooting at you with very minimal RP, genuine and fun.
1. The hard, perhaps unkind, truth of PK's is that they exist in part to filter characters and stories out the door so that others may take their place. Its a natural and efficient way of making sure the server is not stagnated with the exact same people, doing the exact same things, forever. As characters die, new ones take their place. Moreover, those that survive those characters grow and prosper from that death themselves. Ideals change, motives shift and mindsets get altered.
I agree with this too, but at the end of a PK just feels like someone did a simple /me lowers their pistol and shoots the CP/Rebel/Citizen, it just stops feeling like a genuine death. Getting injured and being able to at least put up some form of retaliation, whether verbally or physically, and rping getting out of a situation does more to get people thinking, to have ideals change, motive shifts, etc.
2. PK's are very much around to prevent people from acting like idiots. Players are players, and if not given appropriate threats of permanent discontinuation, will often start doing things without any thought or risk management whatsoever. They'll commit to plans they never would if otherwise mortal and will act in such a way that cheapens interactions.
I just agree with this tbh. There always needs to be a danger, but if that danger just, as I've said, feels cheap... Well, it can just kill a person's motivation.
Firstly, bleedouts are indiscriminate and always happen upon being downed. So, the idea of not getting a chance isn't really true.
You sort of don't get a chance, as it's a large blacked-out screen with a giant timer and 'press E to die' button right in your face. You can't truthfully roleplay like that, as, well, it just blocks ur vision and you are unable to type (as if you type anything with an E, it lowers the timer) so if you do anything you are essentially guaranteed to die quicker.
NPC deaths is something not everyone agrees with, but I actually support them on the grounds it makes encounters with them significantly more dangerous. NPC's are mostly jokes who are endlessly limited by Source. Having that extra bit of gravity for them helps alleviate that a bit. While also making dangerous parts of the world/map feel actually dangerous.
NPC deaths in sewers are fine, as, well, you can't truthfully moderate it. My gripe is with PvP fights and how players respond/react/roleplay in them very poorly. But, if NPCs are just fixed, like what Hoki says, then there'd be less complaints over them.
All that being said, It wouldn't be the worst thing to enable bleedout godmode, and do away with the timer. So that randomly executing and PK'ing players is at least a little classy with RP. Problem is people will abuse this in combat pretty often which makes it far less appealing in practice.
I'm not saying god made bleed out, essentially. I'm saying that you should just have *enough* health when in it so that you don't just die from getting hit in the head with a wall by being dragged, or your foot touches the 1 pixel of an Incen', or that someone walks over you. As deaths like that are, well, null at that point and essentially kill any RP, while also nulling any form of PK.

And people will abuse, that's the point of staff. To stop the abuse.

In the end, I just want some type of system that allows a person to be injured. As currently, people will just *die* and that leaves CMU/CPs without any form of medical RP, and the only medical RP there is going into your inventory and pressing 'use on character'. So maybe it's an option given to the player on a down perhaps? To take an injury or just die? So you aren't *forced* to take one and can just die if you want, or you're allowed to take an IC injury and are unable to continue participating in the fight once it happens.

As currently, the systems we have just feel cheap and unfun to me, as a Medical Roleplayer, and as a roleplayer in general. If I wanted a bleed-out screen, I'd go play a Battle Royale or something, as that's what our current system mimics. A downed teammate. But even there, you are still able to react in some capacity and aren't at 1 hp.
 
PK's make it way more intense and actually make people act somewhat realistically. If PK's in combat were removed, you'd see CPs rushing rebels like it's CSGO and vice-versa.
However, instead of PK's, there could be other repercussions. CPs already lose rank but that's not that big of a deal honestly. A cool thing could be a limited amount of temporary PK's, like 3 or something.

A lot of NPCs are broken in TBC so I think having PK's removed for deaths against NPCs is OK but still kind of gay because it will undermine the danger of the sewers/underground. I think admins should know at this point which NPCs are broken and which are not.

Limiting deaths within a Faction is sort of.. Well, unfair. The reason is that, unlike rebels, you have to take time out of your day to actually go and apply for the CP faction, and those applications could take a while to reopen. Additionally, it's a harsh punishment for a server with sub-par combat systems.

The whole idea behind my idea is that it creates RP for both sides of the interaction, possibly, while still keeping the risk of the PK. Its not like if you are injured you cannot be killed. But rather, it gives a fair chance for both sides to roleplay taking injuries and or losses. As atm, the most rp involved is 1 dude doing /me takes out a green vial and injects it into the CP for medical RP.
 
Essentially. Atm, there's no RP involved with getting shot 40 times, as you just hit yourself with a syringe and get back up. And 90% of the time people never react to it. Or you die because 1 pixel of flame touched u in your downed state.

But, if it starts being enforced that you took an injury instead of a full-on death - then it promotes more RP for essentially all factions who may get into a fight, minus I'd say OTA possibly. Course, a PK is still there - as anyone can just come over, RP with you in your weakened/downed state, and kill you fully. But then it's a matter of people being able to properly react to the situation instead.

It's cringe if you just die after months of RP, then an admin just goes 'sorry, you were in sewers ;/' right?
Perhaps revamp getting up from incapacitation and make wound types that the game'll recognize and name appropriately; cuts and small slashes? some bandage, big cuts and slashes? medigel or a surgery kit or something with stitching equipment.. Bulletholes? Surgery kit, medigel.. Something like that but obviously more worked on than i said.
 
As for incapacitation revamp, going under 20 hp from legs down means you can still try and move but extra slowly and sturggling, and only a minute or 30sec after you go full ragdoll, body shots? same expect faster KO, arms? Can walk away but then'll KO, etc.
 
I might be going too far/creative with this but how about a dead-state, like 3 minutes max and you can get revived (unless death is unavoidable) but have to RP the consequences
 
I might be going too far/creative with this but how about a dead-state, like 3 minutes max and you can get revived (unless death is unavoidable) but have to RP the consequences
U already get 5 mins to get revived. But basically any bump or damage instantly kills you.
 
Back
Top