Have Heavy Armor Reduce Player Speed And/Or Related Attributes.

[RedHotGinger]

Reasons for this:

1. It makes it so that having heavy armor is not just an objectively better choice for literally all scenarios, causing Civil Protection to get a *slight* increase in effectiveness against much better armed and prepared opponents. While also adding a tactical element in deciding whether you want more protection, or a better chance of fleeing. This includes Vortigaunts as well.

2. Allows rebels/vorts to look more distinct by not having them all naturally glide towards the beefiest armor all the time. Gives tangible use to low tier armors which will in turn cause them to be used more often.

*Only applied to normal humans and Vortigaunts. Will not apply to any Transhuman elements (For very obvious reasons)

That's all gamers. ​

 

[HOKI]

Agree on everything other than it not applying to transhumans.

 

[Kappatalist]

Should definitely apply to transhumans and CPs, but otherwise this is good and gives some strategy and variety to equipment choices.

 

[RedHotGinger]

Agree on everything other than it not applying to transhumans.

Given that rebel armor now can nearly equal OTA armors in integrity, as well as the fact rebels have access to competing weapons (all around speaking, pulse weapons are terrible at range) It makes sense that Transhuman soldiers would not be stricken down by the bulky armor they wear. Especially given that the armor is partially tethered to them more than normal.

 

[BrennenW05]

good idea, as long as CP also get the de-buff too

 

[Kappatalist]

Given that rebel armor now can nearly equal OTA armors in integrity, as well as the fact rebels have access to competing weapons (all around speaking, pulse weapons are terrible at range) It makes sense that Transhuman soldiers would not be stricken down by the bulky armor they wear. Especially given that the armor is partially tethered to them more than normal.

Rebels don't need a flat out nerf, they've just come off of a losing streak anyway?

 

[RedHotGinger]

Rebels don't need a flat out nerf, they've just come off of a losing streak anyway?

It's not a nerf. Its just not applying a small nerf to OTA...A faction rebels will only come up against if they are doing something extremely active and important, thus being prepared for such a fight.

Rebels are almost all Armed with Rifles or above
Tier 3 armor has closed the armor gap significantly, or removed it entirely, not sure.

This is mostly a small thematic change that gives OTA the ability to outmaneuver rebels. Literally nothing else. I.E if you do something to attract OTA, you will likely have to stand and fight or use tactics to slowly retreat. That is not a bad thing.

 

[Raptorian]

Make it apply to transhumans and I support it.

 

[Raptorian]

Tier 3 armor has closed the armor gap significantly, or removed it entirely, not sure.

It hasn't. The buffer between a T-3 rebel (which are not the average) and an OTA is still 100 HP.

 

[BrennenW05]

It's not a nerf. It's just not applying a small nerf to OTA...A faction of rebels will only come up against if they are doing something extremely active and important, thus being prepared for such a fight.

Rebels are almost all Armed with Rifles or above
Tier 3 armor has closed the armor gap significantly, or removed it entirely, not sure.

This is mostly a small thematic change that gives OTA the ability to outmaneuver rebels. Nothing else. I.E if you do something to attract OTA, you will likely have to stand and fight or use tactics to slowly retreat. That is not a bad thing.

A majority of rebels do not have rifles or above, the larger better groups do, but not a majority of the entire rebel player base, I do agree that most have some kind of gun, but the guns are mostly low or mid-tier guns, the max amount of effective health a rebel can get is 200, while OTA can get 300 or more, so there is still a decently large effective health gap

 

[Kappatalist]

It's not a nerf. Its just not applying a small nerf to OTA...A faction rebels will only come up against if they are doing something extremely active and important, thus being prepared for such a fight.

Rebels are almost all Armed with Rifles or above
Tier 3 armor has closed the armor gap significantly, or removed it entirely, not sure.

This is mostly a small thematic change that gives OTA the ability to outmaneuver rebels. Literally nothing else. I.E if you do something to attract OTA, you will likely have to stand and fight or use tactics to slowly retreat. That is not a bad thing.

Rebels shouldn't be pushed to defending they should be given leeway to outmaneuver and ambush... they're lightly armoured guerrila fighters against giant beefcake killing machines. This is the exact opposite of what you want rebels to be; attackers not defenders. At least in my opinion.

I think OTA should have the equivilant value of whatever penalty is applied to T2 rebel armour, with CPs following the same penalties as rebel armour roughly.

 

[RedHotGinger]

This is the exact opposite of what you want rebels to be; attackers not defenders. At least in my opinion.

There is no instance ever in which OTA will be attacking rebels without rebels being the aggressors in a previous engagement. Rebels can and will still attack as they always have been able to. This does not effect that. All it means is that it makes it harder to escape OTA counter-attacks, meaning they will have to possibly use utility items or other tactics to do so.

they're lightly armoured guerrila fighters against giant beefcake killing machines.

Yes, which is exactly why I suggest it not apply to OTA. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Kappatalist]

Yes, which is exactly why I suggest it not apply to OTA. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Being heavily armoured and speedy is exactly having your cake and eating it too.

There's no reason transhumans shouldn't have some sort of penalty that's being applied to rebels, especially at a lesser amount in comparison. Rebels are continually caught in OTA counterattacks anyway when they do occur.

If this is a thematic change like you said, then it should apply to OTA as well. Otherwise, it's just a nerf which is coming off the back of rebels losing the past several fights they've been involved in.

 

[DirectorHomeless]

Given that rebel armor now can nearly equal OTA armors in integrity, as well as the fact rebels have access to competing weapons (all around speaking, pulse weapons are terrible at range) It makes sense that Transhuman soldiers would not be stricken down by the bulky armor they wear. Especially given that the armor is partially tethered to them more than normal.

Pulse weapons are not terrible at range, the AR2 is terrible at range.
The SR-1 and the Pulse SMG are very very good at range and they practically ignore armour, same as the volk and the Combine Sniper pill.

 

[RedHotGinger]

There's no reason transhumans shouldn't have some sort of penalty that's being applied to rebels, especially at a lesser amount in comparison. Rebels are continually caught in OTA counterattacks anyway when they do occur.

Transhumans are inherently non-human combat entities designed specifically and entirely for the prospect of fighting. Outside of this, its just a very minor nudge that goes into their favor to represent this.

Also, OTA are rarely deployed. So, its really not even some big deal in that respect anyway. It's also worth noting OTA cannot possibly rearm and will be stuck with this forever, with no way to mitigate it. Unlike rebels. So, this will basically just act as a nerf to them...outright.

 

[Kappatalist]

Transhumans are inherently non-human combat entities designed specifically and entirely for the prospect of fighting. Outside of this, its just a very minor nudge that goes into their favor to represent this.

Also, OTA are rarely deployed. So, its really not even some big deal in that respect anyway.

Transhumans are still a part Human being, that's why I'm suggesting they can (despite having way more armour at this level) outpace rebels in T-3 armour, keep up with rebels in T-2 armour, and lag behind rebels in T-1 armour.

The above provides way more tactics for rebels than simply "OTA can outrun every single one of us."

 

[Neonity]

Introduce different armour classes like this:

Light Armour	0 - 50 AP​	Allows you to run at max speed with no penalties.
Medium Armour	Between 50 and 100 AP​	Still allows you to run at max speed, but you lose stamina faster.
Heavy Armour	100 AP and above​	Run speed decreased by a certain percentage based on speed skill, lose stamina faster.

While an OTA soldier does have 150 AP, I don't think they should be affected by the heavy armour debuff, considering they are specifically built for combat, and making them slow and clunky doesn't make much sense but to each their own.

Wallhammer units are already affected by a movement speed debuff, however.

Though with this being said, I think T-3 armour should be buffed to 125 AP if this does go through.

 

[DirectorHomeless]

Transhumans are inherently non-human combat entities designed specifically and entirely for the prospect of fighting. Outside of this, its just a very minor nudge that goes into their favor to represent this.

Also, OTA are rarely deployed. So, its really not even some big deal in that respect anyway. It's also worth noting OTA cannot possibly rearm and will be stuck with this forever, with no way to mitigate it. Unlike rebels. So, this will basically just act as a nerf to them...outright.

OTA aren't the ultimate enemy, they are an elite group of enemies that all but the most armed rebel should actively walk away from, and even in the latter case they should only approach them with a group of similarly armed friends.

The ota are 100/150, Tier 3 rebels are 100/100

Applying a slowness selectively is a debuff to certain groups, applying it overall is a level playing field.

 

[DirectorHomeless]

Introduce different armour classes like this:

Light Armour	0 - 50 AP​	Allows you to run at max speed with no penalties.
Medium Armour	Between 50 and 100 AP​	Still allows you to run at max speed, but you lose stamina faster.
Heavy Armour	100 AP and above​	Run speed decreased by a certain percentage based on speed skill, lose stamina faster.

While an OTA soldier does have 150 AP, I don't think they should be affected by the heavy armour debuff, considering they are specifically built for combat, and making them slow and clunky doesn't make much sense but to each their own.

Wallhammer units are already affected by a movement speed debuff, however.

Though with this being said, I think T-3 armour should be buffed to 125 AP if this does go through.

Agree but 125 feels too much, having 50/75/100 is a good progressions tier for armour.
Maybe have a Tier 4 armour set that refers to special armour sets obtained via big story events? e.g. KROT, HECU suit etc etc

 

[HOKI]

Do keep in mind that OTA have nothing to lose if they die in a counter-attack other than losing the battle. They don't lose their characters, ranks like CPs do or whatever. At most they can lose their pride or something, idk.

As of now OTA have the best guns and armor, which is good and it should stay that way. A speed debuff won't make them useless or weaker than rebels. It only invites the usage of some semblance tactics on both sides.

Unrelated to this suggestion, but I think deployment rules are retarded. At least they should be proportional to the amount of attacking rebels.