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SUBWAY OVERHAUL

slick

badm*n
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
67
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PROPOSAL: SUBWAY SCAVENGING, SURVIVAL AND LOOTING OVERHAUL

PREAMBLE

The introduction to Resistance roleplay is a long, tedious process of crouching down, and picking through the trash while trying not to die from stray enemies whilst lost in C24's winding tunnels. So long, and so tedious, some skip it outright and try to luck upon gear through a reliance on events. These players are not in the wrong, however, as monotony is a defining feature of our current system of scavenging. Simply put, a bit of nuance and care given to this system will go a long way to forming Resistance roleplay into less of a grind, and more of an individual experience on this server.

PART ONE: SPORES

Spores serve as a limiting factor to scavenging in the depths, serving first and foremost as a gameplay feature. But, this feature has somewhat overstepped the capability for the resistance to roleplay within this expansive part of the map, essentially making it a dead zone for those affected by spores, leaving it to be a place of solely script hoarding. While there may be multiple solutions to this issue, I for one believe the spores should be limited in their reach, allowing for a few small pockets of fresh air for those to remain in the sewer and roleplay within it, with an OOC restriction on a large "rebel safe haven" to be created. In tangent with this, I believe bandanas and gasmasks need a very heavy buff, with integrity and quality draining far too fast to be reliable, some opting to leave them unequipped for the sake of saving their qualities, and simply taking the effects of the spores and waiting for them to go away.

This takes me to the next point in this part- Spore sickness. Spore sickness acts as a cooldown, lethal when ignored. And to the average resistance roleplayer, a headache. A large orange screen, a constant sound effect of a heart thumping, and a sometime broken cooldown serves as a constant reminder of the unpolished state of this system. Simply put, the waring off of these effects take far too long, and in some cases do not go down without admin intervention due to bugs. At most, to cater to continued roleplay in the sewers, two full bars (200%) of spore sickness should be able to go down to 0% within 45 minutes, tops. This variable can be up to interpretation of those implementing it, but these are my ideas. As for the visual and audio effects, these very much need to be changed as well, the orange screen effect must be pushed back to the 'High Spore Toxicity' portion (beyond 100%), and the thumping heart to 'Lethal Dosage' (Somewhere around 200%), as these serve nothing more than an annoyance, and hinders roleplay. And it hurts my eyes and ears.

PART TWO: SCAVENGING

At this point, scavenging boils down to our characters crouching down and rummaging through trash conveniently re-appearing throughout the sewers. This system needs more life to it, with an understanding of what might make sense to appear where. Our source material, Half-Life Alyx paints a great picture as to what might appear in these infested subways. I will list a few with a general idea of what I'd think the loot table would or should look like:

Infestation Control Supply Crate
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The map is littered with spots of infestation control supplies, such as barrels. In HL:A, these were filled with ammo and sometimes respirators. For our purposes, general supplies such as citizen rations, clothing, gasmasks and the rare bit of ammo/weaponry will be plausible.

Infestation Control Disposal Barrel
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It's a bit of a gamble for the average scavenger to break the seal of this barrel. You risk the chance of opening some foul thing, or otherwise discarded relics of the infested subway. A general loot spot with the small risk of spawning some small Xenian, such as a headcrab or the chance of increasing your spore sickness by a considerable amount unless wearing a mask of sorts. (Small reduction for bandana, immunity while wearing gasmask)

Infestation Control Waste Bag
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It's a bit of a gamble for the average scavenger to re-open this bag. You risk the chance of opening some foul thing, or otherwise discarded relics of the infested subway. A general loot spot with the small risk of spawning some small Xenian, such as a headcrab or the chance of increasing your spore sickness by a considerable amount unless wearing a mask of sorts. (Small reduction for bandana, immunity while wearing gasmask)

Infestation Control Chemical Holder
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Filled with strange chemicals. You might find some use for it. You might hurt yourself trying to get it. High chance of gaining spore sickness. (Small reduction for bandana, large reduction while wearing gasmask)

Cardboard Box
Comes in various sizes and quantities. Sometimes empty, sometimes filled with general junk similar to our current trash bags, sometimes filled with useful crafting or general use items.

Explosive Barrel
Littered about the sewers in Half Life Alyx, these are up to interpretation for what they may give. Chemicals, for one, may be a possibility. Perhaps a rare chance for explosive material.

Abandoned Luggage
In a metro like this, luggage such as suitcases, purses, backpacks and duffles litter the place. Previous passengers left their things in a hurry. Filled with citizenry items, junk, with rare amounts of loyalist items.

Small Resistance Supply Crate
A rare find, filled with general resistance needs. Food, ammo, weapons, chips.

Large Resistance Supply Crate
A rarer spawn, sometimes taking the place of the typical small resistance crate. More of all the good stuff.
Corpses
Those that came before. Travelers, fighters and vagrants. The corpses of Infestation Control and resistance members should realistically cover the infested subway. Rare find, but high rewards.

Combine Outpost Supplies
Pieces of Combine architecture and supplies are set up in the subterranean infestation, which are typically guarded by turrets, mines, or otherwise. Typically found in parts of the subway which hold a previous or current Combine presence (Think OTA deployment, the old trains, etc.)


Another tidbit I'd like to bring up on the scavenging front is the possibility for enemies- Zombies in particular, to carry small items with a rare chance of something larger. This can be expanded upon with other enemies, but this is the idea that popped into my head as of writing.

The name of the game for this portion of the overhaul is to expand the amount of exploration there is to do, making it more engaging, with the possibility of rarer finds to break the monotony of digging through trash. It breathes some more life into this somewhat lifeless system and allows for the player to roleplay more than being one step ahead of a homeless dumpster diver.

PART THREE: BREAKDOWN

Currently, the junk you do find in the sewer systems are typically broken down into usable components for crafting. I believe some of these items are misrepresented in what they yield, and the amount they yield and require some buffs to balance out the amount of grinding one must do to get these things. I cannot speak for each and every piece, but comments may comment on what I leave blank with X.

BROKEN BIOLOCK - 1 IRON, 1 ELECTRICAL COMPONENT
BROKEN COMPUTER TOWER - 2 METAL, 1 ELECTRICAL COMPONENT
BROKEN LAMP - 1 METAL, 1 GLASS
BROKEN RECIEVER - X METAL, X ELECTICAL COMPONENT
COMPUTER PARTS - 2 ELECTICAL COMPONENT, 1 METAL
EMPTY BEER BOTTLE - 2 GLASS
EMPTY BOB WATER - 0-1 METAL
EMPTY BOTTLE - 2 GLASS
EMPTY BOURBON BOTTLE - 2 GLASS
EMPTY BREEN'S WATER - 0-1 METAL
EMPTY BROWN BOTTLE - 2 GLASS
EMPTY COFFEE CUP - 0-1 PLASTIC, 1 PAPER
EMPTY GASCAN - 1-3 METAL
EMPTY JAR - 1-2 PLASTIC
EMPTY JUICE CARTON - 1-2 PLASTIC
EMPTY MILK CARTON - 0-1 PLASTIC, 1 PAPER
EMPTY MUG - 1 GLASS
EMPTY PAINT CAN - 0-2 METAL
EMPTY PLASTIC JUG - 2 PLASTIC
EMPTY TAKEAWAY - 0-1 PLASTIC, 1 PAPER
EMPTY VODKA BOTTLE - 3 GLASS
EMPTY WHISKEY BOTTLE - 3 GLASS
EMPTY WINE BOTTLE - 3 GLASS
FLIMSY METAL PIPE - 4 METAL
METAL GEAR - 2-3 METAL
OLD DESK CLOCK - 1 WOOD, 0-1 METAL GEAR
OLD DOLL - 1 PLASTIC, 0-1 CLOTH
OLD TIRE - 3 PLASTIC, 0-1 METAL
PC MONITOR - 2 PLASTIC, 1 GLASS, 1-2 ELECTICAL COMPONENTS
PLANT POT - 0-2 PLASTIC, 1-2 GLASS
PLASTIC BUCKET - 4 PLASTIC
PLASTIC CRATE - 3 PLASTIC
PLAYGROUND TOY - 0-2 WOOD, 0-1 PLASTIC
REFIGERATOR DOOR - 0-1 PLASTIC, 1 METAL
SMALL CARDBOARD BOX - 1 PAPER, 0-1 CLOTH
TATTER DRAWER - 1-3 WOOD
TIN CAN - 1 METAL
TRASH KEYBOARD - 1-2 METAL, 1 ELECTRICAL COMPONENT
TURTLE PLUSHIE - 1-2 CLOTH
WOODEN FRAME - 1-3 WOOD, 0-1 CLOTH


There is room to expand on what is found, as well. The variety of junk we have is minimal, and more could and should be found. For now, the yield should be more than one piece of scrap per find, especially if it is not a guarantee to find something within the scavengable spots.

FINAL NOTES

Anything unsaid should be left in the replies. I believe I covered most of what I believe, and the general note to developers and staff should be- Make looting and fighting enemies worthwhile and engaging in the sewers, especially if you are a risking a PK every time you enter it, should you die. Any suggestions with numbers or suggested loot pools should be taken with a grain of salt, as I do not fully comprehend the fine balance of the server, simply the direction I believe it should go in. I just wish for the grind to be tapered off.

Fin.
 
This feature has somewhat overstepped the capability for the resistance to roleplay within this expansive part of the map, essentially making it a dead zone for those affected by spores, leaving it to be a place of solely script hoarding. While there may be multiple solutions to this issue, I for one believe the spores should be limited in their reach, allowing for a few small pockets of fresh air for those to remain in the sewer and roleplay within it, with an OOC restriction on a large "rebel safe haven" to be created. In tangent with this, I believe bandanas and gasmasks need a very heavy buff, with integrity and quality draining far too fast to be reliable, some opting to leave them unequipped for the sake of saving their qualities, and simply taking the effects of the spores and waiting for them to go away.
A safe haven would really make the sewers far more enjoyable and not just a "vortigaunt-only" hub because they're capable of filtering spores naturally. the same is true for security: as a rebel, there is no way to be confident of your safety; you either hide in the slums/base during a sweep or flee deep back into the sewers to hide while suffering from the spores at the same time; you are constantly in probable danger
 
A safe haven would really make the sewers far more enjoyable and not just a "vortigaunt-only" hub because they're capable of filtering spores naturally. the same is true for security: as a rebel, there is no way to be confident of your safety; you either hide in the slums/base during a sweep or flee deep back into the sewers to hide while suffering from the spores at the same time; you are constantly in probable danger
I've long said we need little spore free pockets, Areas like the vents.
 
Yes on everything but the spore-less areas.

Unless we have a system in place that lets CP's and Citizens interact more with the Resistance populace, this will simply create more of a population drain as people will inevitably hang around the Resistance areas and leave Plaza and sometimes even Slums empty.

We need solutions that keep people engaged not with EACH OTHER, but with OTHERS.

Any and all suggestions that are for segregating the population and making it even harder to find people to roleplay with will be denied unless proper thought is put behind it. Unfortunately, that part of this suggestion is not properly thought out.
 
Yes on everything but the spore-less areas.

Unless we have a system in place that lets CP's and Citizens interact more with the Resistance populace, this will simply create more of a population drain as people will inevitably hang around the Resistance areas and leave Plaza and sometimes even Slums empty.

We need solutions that keep people engaged not with EACH OTHER, but with OTHERS.

Any and all suggestions that are for segregating the population and making it even harder to find people to roleplay with will be denied unless proper thought is put behind it. Unfortunately, that part of this suggestion is not properly thought out.
If you force rebels to soley be on the surface and eliminate places for them to hide you're gonna kill rebel rp off completely and make the issue a hundred percent worse. A well organized Insurgency /needs/ A safe location to operate out of and co-ordinate in order to successfully launch operations.
 
If you force rebels to soley be on the surface and eliminate places for them to hide you're gonna kill rebel rp off completely and make the issue a hundred percent worse. A well organized Insurgency /needs/ A safe location to operate out of and co-ordinate in order to successfully launch operations.

Yes, which is why making all containers except Store containers hidden to facilitate hiding your contraband then walking around with no gear on me is a better solution.

Ive said this once and ill say it again, the server will not cater to people that make a mistake as Resistance and out themselves. The only reason you need a full on base to hide in is if you are BOL'd, and at that point, thats on you as a player for getting caught enough to get BOL'd for a high level crime. Sure, there are cases of metagame and we look into these closely, but if you get caught fair and square and get BOL'd its not the administrations duty to make areas of the entire map for you to circlejerk in.
 
I can look into the breakdown and scavenging parts myself. You can consider those being looked into

However, regarding spores/gas system within the sewer, this will most likely not change as it is there for a reason and a good one at that. When we removed spores in the past, lots and lots of rebels just ended up circlejerking in the area... this is very bad and takes away from the surface. Unfortnately in CityRP citizens and the surface will always be the main population zones that are invested in while slums, sewers, nexus, etc are all neglected in exchange.

By opening up these hidden areas away from the Combine, 99.9% of the time people just flock to them and stay in them for countless hours and days for reasons not yet known to mankind. It is a scientific anomaly beyond all understanding... one which we would rather stay away from. Its just simply not feasible to open any pockets up because by instinct people will just overly use them. I am not sure where this circlejerk meme started and why rebels do it, but my best guess is because they are incapable of hiding themselves in plain sight because they want to walk around with their edgy gear 24/7, which is a major issue here as well it seems where 100% of the time so far, every rebel I have seen walks around in full gear for what I can only see as no reason at all other than to look cool.

Its a meme at best and if a rebel gets marked BOL because they decided to do crimes in front of so many people or just walk in gear all day, that is 100% their fault and they 100% deserved to get smacked for it. The consequences of their own actions. We are making all containers default hidden in exchange for bases which should allow you to hide rebel gear without worry since there is no reason to walk around in it, only need it when doing underground, about to fight or generally heading out on expedition... when they finally start whatever year that may be.
 
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I am not sure where this circlejerk meme started and why rebels do it, but my best guess is because they are incapable of hiding themselves in plain sight because they want to walk around with their edgy gear 24/7, which is a major issue here as well it seems where 100% of the time so far, every rebel I have seen walks around in full gear for what I can only see as no reason at all other than to look cool.

The unfortunate truth is most people who join a HL2RP server to play a rebel don't want to hand out flyers or spend 90% of their time walking around unarmed in the city where the payoff for them feels minimal. If they're forced to do those things that they don't find fun then they just won't play. There's no real getting around that, but if you cater to it the main city experience goes to hell.

CityRP tends to be incredibly restrictive for armed rebels because if they do anything with those guns they're very liable to get themselves or others PK'd in the process and they know that. That means they're naturally going to migrate as far away from sweeps and patrols as possible so as not to lose their characters while getting to show off the cool things their character has that justify the time spent on server if given the opportunity to do so.
 
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As @Robert and @swagile mentioned, the spore part of the suggestion is not as thought out as I would like it to be, and will post a separate suggestion to completely fill this idea. However, I still do believe there must be a buff for filters and bandanas, as they are simply not worth the investment at this point and time and serve no purpose, due to how fast they run out. You can stay in the sewers for a max of 30 minutes with them on, then you start to take spore damage. Even then, a small bit seeps in from what I notice as the integrity goes down.

What I suggest is; Integrity serves as a count down for each percent of quality that goes down. 100% integrity to 0% integrity drops a 95% quality filter down to a 94% quality filter. So on, and so forth. This may need some adjustments, but testing it is key. This is a step in the right direction to allow some shred of roleplay to occur in the map without the massive circlejerk to be had beneath the surface. I will come up with more ideas to make this a viable option, sooner or later.

EDIT:

Reiterating, as well, the spore system is a bit funky and buggy still. The cooldowns sometimes just do not go down, even if you wait for hours, and the effects need a rework, along with the timing of adding spore count. Just a general re-work needs to be done. The spore-less areas can wait.
 
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As @Robert and @swagile mentioned, the spore part of the suggestion is not as thought out as I would like it to be, and will post a separate suggestion to completely fill this idea. However, I still do believe there must be a buff for filters and bandanas, as they are simply not worth the investment at this point and time and serve no purpose, due to how fast they run out. You can stay in the sewers for a max of 30 minutes with them on, then you start to take spore damage. Even then, a small bit seeps in from what I notice as the integrity goes down.

What I suggest is; Integrity serves as a count down for each percent of quality that goes down. 100% integrity to 0% integrity drops a 95% quality filter down to a 94% quality filter. So on, and so forth. This may need some adjustments, but testing it is key. This is a step in the right direction to allow some shred of roleplay to occur in the map without the massive circlejerk to be had beneath the surface. I will come up with more ideas to make this a viable option, sooner or later.

EDIT:

Reiterating, as well, the spore system is a bit funky and buggy still. The cooldowns sometimes just do not go down, even if you wait for hours, and the effects need a rework, along with the timing of adding spore count. Just a general re-work needs to be done. The spore-less areas can wait.
I do believe that some improvements could be done to the spore system, such as having actual proper roleplay scripts that would actually reduce it. (CMU technically has pills to reduce your spores, though it's all done through RP and needs a staff to set the "gas level" for you.)

It's possible to build a filtering system to the sewers, which creates a temporary safe-zone, though when I say temporary it won't be for several weeks for example to avoid people camping at the sewers. This is due some issues back from V1 from what I've heard, where you would potentially even have half the server staying in these safe-zones because they were safe and near any other resources.

Though suggestions like above such as integrity to filters and so are decent ideas.

Also some information regarding the spore system is that, higher it is, slower it goes down and if you stay too long then you might hit a permanent status where it won't go down anymore at all.

We are working as well on the infestation control system, which our dev @Aspect™ can elaborate on as the original post has some ideas regarding infestation.
 
I do believe that some improvements could be done to the spore system, such as having actual proper roleplay scripts that would actually reduce it. (CMU technically has pills to reduce your spores, though it's all done through RP and needs a staff to set the "gas level" for you.)

It's possible to build a filtering system to the sewers, which creates a temporary safe-zone, though when I say temporary it won't be for several weeks for example to avoid people camping at the sewers. This is due some issues back from V1 from what I've heard, where you would potentially even have half the server staying in these safe-zones because they were safe and near any other resources.

Though suggestions like above such as integrity to filters and so are decent ideas.

Also some information regarding the spore system is that, higher it is, slower it goes down and if you stay too long then you might hit a permanent status where it won't go down anymore at all.

We are working as well on the infestation control system, which our dev @Aspect™ can elaborate on as the original post has some ideas regarding infestation.
That makes more sense. The system needs more elaboration as to what is permanent. So far from the testing I've been doing is that the initial high poison level takes an hour to get rid of, ontop of another hour and a half for the rest of the 100% bar to go down. The CMU option is unviable for anyone roleplaying a resistance member, seeing as the CMU will simply report you if you mention having spore sickness. I'd suggest quartering the amount of time it takes for spore sickness to go down.
 
That makes more sense. The system needs more elaboration as to what is permanent. So far from the testing I've been doing is that the initial high poison level takes an hour to get rid of, ontop of another hour and a half for the rest of the 100% bar to go down. The CMU option is unviable for anyone roleplaying a resistance member, seeing as the CMU will simply report you if you mention having spore sickness. I'd suggest quartering the amount of time it takes for spore sickness to go down.
An hour??? WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET THAT INFO LMFAO? 1 FULL TOXICITY BAR = 12-24 HOURS
TESTED BY YOURS TRULY WUBEL

Also, the scavenging item suggestion can genuinely kinda like just fuck off... because even if the server got a RPG and seems like a rogue-like feeling to it I really don't wanna see some random that just goes into the sewer and find a cache with rare weapons NO MATTER HOW RARE THE CACHE IS, at best it should just be 1 single Pistol.
 
PART ONE: SPORES
I don't think the sewer spores should be lessened, and I don't think they should disappear more quickly. Fix the bugs obviously. The sewers are meant to be a very temporary "get in get out" kind of place. It's not for rebels to fuck off to and circlejerk forever, because that is always what happens when you allow sewers to form. It already happened before on Willard Networks' first run on City 24 V2, where a quarter of the server fucked off to the sewer "rebel town" and proceeded to barely ever show up on the surface.

The reason behind the spores is to get rebels to be on the surface, because that's where the majority of players are. When rebels hide away in the sewers, which they will if you lessened the spores, then the notion that citizens should just roam around aimlessly while Combine fight Rebels only grows and the most important faction (Citizens) is left to rot, which is a massive issue for the server. I'm of the opinion that the only reason for the sewers to exist is for a very temporary hiding location and scavanging. Rebels should be doing rebel roleplay on the surface so citizens may potentially be included, and so we can achieve the goal of having rebel characters be almost one with citizen characters, because that's how you create good rebel RP instead of "Hey let's fuck off to the sewers so we can walk around being tacticool lol. Maybe we can shotcop too ;)".

PART TWO: SCAVENGING
Rebel RP should be about engaging citizens and turning them into rebellious pawns, rather than playing a script-whoring minigame to eventually try and "take over the city" with 6 other rebel players. I'm for this, but the goal should be to empower rebels to empower citizens, not just for rebels to horde scripts.

PART THREE: BREAKDOWN
If it reduces the grind while allowing rebels to interact and empower citizens, then I'm all for it.
 
Ive said this once and ill say it again, the server will not cater to people that make a mistake as Resistance and out themselves. The only reason you need a full on base to hide in is if you are BOL'd, and at that point, thats on you as a player for getting caught enough to get BOL'd for a high level crime. Sure, there are cases of metagame and we look into these closely, but if you get caught fair and square and get BOL'd its not the administrations duty to make areas of the entire map for you to circlejerk in.
What logic is this? The BOL mechanic is not there as an OOC tool for you personally to decide whose RP experience you can disregard
A sizeable portion of the resistance is BOLd, there is no reason somebody who winds up playing a BOLd character for whatever reason should not factor into how the resistance rules are reformed
 
I also agree with allowing rebels some leeway in the city to interact with other citizens, introduce stuff for them to do there while being not geared to minimize slums and other areas to be filled by rebels because these are segregated areas because there is 'nothing' to do for a rebel in the city. Changes to the sewers area sound good as well if we also change some stuff in the city.

For loyalist there is plenty to do and even in the slums while reporting on crimes whereas it isn't rewarding for rebels to stay in the city.
 
What logic is this? The BOL mechanic is not there as an OOC tool for you personally to decide whose RP experience you can disregard
A sizeable portion of the resistance is BOLd, there is no reason somebody who winds up playing a BOLd character for whatever reason should not factor into how the resistance rules are reformed
We also need safe places for vortigaunts to hide. We get BOL'd for existing. I think the temporary filtering system is alright, as long as we can renew it over time so we have a little RP-Hub in the sewers that doesn't get out of hand and turn into "rebel-town".
 
What logic is this? The BOL mechanic is not there as an OOC tool for you personally to decide whose RP experience you can disregard
A sizeable portion of the resistance is BOLd, there is no reason somebody who winds up playing a BOLd character for whatever reason should not factor into how the resistance rules are reformed

Because we do not make the server around the Resistance's stupidity.

If you get BOL'd for a major crime it means you were:

A) Dumb when doing resistance acts, such as doing it in plain sight with no mask, or told everyone around you your name when wearing / holding high tier contraband, etc.

B) Got ratted out by someone you trust.

It is already INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to get killed off as Resistance; you basically have to run into a CP patrol with all your contraband on you right now to get killed. CP's cannot kill off suspicion; they need a lot of evidence and/or multiple low tier infractions to kill you right now, and even then, they try to OCR you first.

So if your BOL for a major crime you fucked up majorly, and adding more map sections / removing spores in sewers to cater to people like this is not good for the servers health.
 
We also need safe places for vortigaunts to hide. We get BOL'd for existing. I think the temporary filtering system is alright, as long as we can renew it over time so we have a little RP-Hub in the sewers that doesn't get out of hand and turn into "rebel-town".

As for this, I believe that Vorts are the only people who deserve a secret base right now, due to this fact.

You literally cannot not be BOL as a Free Vortigaunt, so having a place to fall back to if you get reported is essential.
 
stop asking for rebel bases and just infiltrate into the CCA, become a corrupt cp, make a gang and start a gang war, burn down businesses, kidnap and beat collaborators in hidden apartments (yes there's places), turn your business into a secret rebel funding organization, bribe union functionaries (CWU, CP, any) in exchange for favours

its literally so easy to get accepted in any of the in-game factions unlike ny other hl2rp server. stop using the old and boring conventional way of doing rebelrp

if you're angry because you got caught then cope and plan your acts beforehand next time

its really not a dev-wise problem
 
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