Willard is to soft and 'bright'

[culture]

Cry Harder! A Shit Server stays a Shit Server!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for Playing!!!!!!!

 

[Vinyl]

I've been saying this for months... and finally some traction is being made internally.

Willard will not be the same

 

[theHandgun]

CCA having authority over CPs turned HL2RP into CityRP in my eyes, it was the last drop. Not that it's bad but it's far from a genuine HL2RP and shouldn't be regarded as one, this is a different type of roleplay.

Also, pure HL2RP is....depressing and sad, it's hard to enjoy it for a long time anyways.

 

[Vinyl]

CCA having authority over CPs turned HL2RP into CityRP in my eyes, it was the last drop. Not that it's bad but it's far from a genuine HL2RP and shouldn't be regarded as one, this is a different type of roleplay.

CCA having authority over CP's isn't bad in my eyes, why would an i5 unit be able to refuse a request from the City Administrator or Vice Administrator?...

 

[theHandgun]

CCA having authority over CP's isn't bad in my eyes, why would an i5 unit be able to refuse a request from the City Administrator or Vice Administrator?...

There was a non-written agreement that CP's should respect and accept requests of the core CCA when they are available and the requests are reasonable. I don't remember any time when a CP refused a reasonable request from CCA.

Now, CCA can use CPs for their personal agenda, just like how Haruto Ito ordered (or requested, I don't know the details but if it was a request, RL's should've punished these CPs and Ito for that action) CPs to "raid" the CMU and scare some people. CPs now became a police force under the CCA which makes the server a CityRP now.

Not many people share my view but CCA and CPs should be completely seperated and their only connection should be through the Overseers, CPs are individually not important as RedHotGinger said but the CP faction as a whole is the face of the Combine, if they look weak, Combine looks weak.

 

[The_Grass_Man]

Tbh only CCA member that can order civil protection around should be the CA

 

[vilhjalmrf]

'Willard being too lax' post #85893593

We've definitely had this discussion many times. I can totally understand the lacking of a dark atmosphere with City 24 or just WN in general. Literally someone tried to start a carnival recently and that's just beyond silly. Including more incidents that just involve some form of goofiness or whatever. Which I don't mind that some silly things exist. Half-Life literally has plenty of non-serious moments throughout their games. But the dark tone still exists with some constant reminders that you're living in a dangerous fucked-up world.

For Willard, we had to cut some things back of course for more roleplay. If we had gone through the dark-strict route, playing citizen would be boring. More boring than it already is to be exact if you're gonna argue "Well, citizen rp is already boring." The only thing that would be semi-fun is Civil Protection because you aren't the one being constantly beaten but they too would be restricted to the point of getting bored. Pure HL2RP is just bad for everyone. We're currently at the point that nothing is going on so people get bored and do silly/stupid things to feel that void on the server but I feel like that will pass soon.

We need to find that fine line of where there's plenty of freedom for roleplay and entertainment but while also keeping the dark total authoritarian atmosphere.

My main concern is this:

You can have crazy cool shit. I17 in the first week was a great example. Raves, corruption, drugs, bad cops, ‘good cops’, etc.


Yet it still felt dystopic and fun. It was great. Overall though C24 has neither. There’s nothing fun, interesting, or unique and it’s not dystopic. There’s a fine balance where, say, CCA can have authority over cops. Yet they’re antagonistic, corrupt, and work well together. Yet neither of that happens and ultimately it’s just more of the same.

From what I heard and understand, CPs were apparently forced by Creative Team (or rather by a member) to be corrupt. But the way I see it, even without that, the only reason why CPs did fuck-all in i17 is mainly due to the fact that it was an 'i17 event'. An event that had no real impact on their actual characters they care about back in C24. Why care if you're gonna be playing a temporary character for two weeks?

As for C24 corruption among CPs, it's very small and hidden so not really as impactful. But again we have to bring up the question. Why? What reason do they have to be corrupt? For i17 it was fuck-all, do what you want, nothing matters because we'll switch back to C24 soon. But for City 24 where the server mostly resides, where most things matter, why should they risk their neck?

And you have to remember, there's nothing limiting them from being corrupt besides the fact that if you get caught then you'll get punished but that's to be expected (depending on the corruption). The same can be said for a lot of characters that were just citizens in i17. They did whatever because it'll have no impact once they're back on c24. Only ones who cared were those planning to transfer or were already transfers like some c24 cops and citizens that came over.

(Assuming this is what you mean) Makes sense for CCA core to hold authority over some standard CP's, so that is totally fine. I think that's more an example of CP's viewing themselves as way more than they are in the setting, when they are surprised that the literal CA can order an I5 around. If you are just talking about the other thing...fair enough. Kinda funny tho.

It's fine honestly for them to have some form of authority. The only time their authority means nothing is when CPs are on a sweep, raid, or when they're at code orange/red as they are trying to keep control and understandably a Minister+ requesting something is not important. Sociostatus always takes priority.

Tbf though, there's a good reason for that. The Combine win by the server existing or by netting PK's/dismantling rebel operations, meanwhile The Resistance only get the same feeling by doing things in events or going "big".

That's the reason there's so much OOC bad blood whatever happens because the way those two factions (and the players behind them) feel satisfied and accomplished is so opposed to one another.

I can understand that there's no same feeling of victory for rebels. Kill CPs? Destroy a checkpoint? In doing so losing your character or resources and only all just for that damage you did not to matter. A new recruit takes the place of a lost unit, a building is restored within the matter of days. While as for CPs, destroying a rebel operation or literally the group itself is much more 'successful' considering that it isn't easy to come back from such a loss.

Nope. I'm talking about the fact, that expressing discontent of an IC message via an OOC reaction led to several people getting punished.

This to be honest had no actual reasoning. The whole shitfest was, "Hey, this chat is technically IC. It be funny if we take the emoji reactions IC too." One of the two units pushed it by sending actual IC messages that resulted them getting punished instead of the emoji thing itself. Speaking of, 'several'. It was only two units. Both units took the punishment and literally didn't care as they had fun. I understand that the whole thing was still silly but 'several people getting punished'? You make it out to seem like more than two people got punished and got upset when really we had a good laugh.

There was a non-written agreement that CP's should respect and accept requests of the core CCA when they are available and the requests are reasonable. I don't remember any time when a CP refused a reasonable request from CCA.

Now, CCA can use CPs for their personal agenda, just like how Haruto Ito ordered (or requested, I don't know the details but if it was a request, RL's should've punished these CPs and Ito for that action) CPs to "raid" the CMU and scare some people. CPs now became a police force under the CCA which makes the server a CityRP now.

Not many people share my view but CCA and CPs should be completely seperated and their only connection should be through the Overseers, CPs are individually not important as RedHotGinger said but the CP faction as a whole is the face of the Combine, if they look weak, Combine looks weak.

The whole thing for Ito was approved by a Rank Leader (me). He spoke to me first and I was fully capable of telling him no and walk out the door without a care. I only agreed to it because I thought it be good practice and I like to spook people.

For the most part, CCA and Civil Protection interactions has always felt the same for me. Just more clarification or written rules now. Feels the same still.

 

[Rabid]

But for City 24 where the server mostly resides, where most things matter, why should they risk their neck?

And you have to remember, there's nothing limiting them from being corrupt besides the fact that if you get caught then you'll get punished but that's to be expected (depending on the corruption). The same can be said for a lot of characters that were just citizens in i17. They did whatever because it'll have no impact once they're back on c24. Only ones who cared were those planning to transfer or were already transfers like some c24 cops and citizens that came over.

I think the point he's trying to make is that the only thing stopping these avenues of roleplay becoming more common is that the setting of C24 does not allow it - not really - because Its a loyalist city that always resets to the absolute and most rigid version of the status quo. It would have impact if it was possible.

But the practicality of actually doing corruption alone with the current setup is (every transaction is virtual and monitored for example) and any idea to loosen things off a bit and explore other avenues is met with "no, it won't fit."

Also yeah, sometimes as staff you do have to force people to act in certain ways for the enjoyment of all, but eventually it becomes normalized and more enjoyable.

 

[Blitz]

it's far from a loyalist city and you don't need to do virtual monetary transactions to be corrupt

 

[theHandgun]

The whole thing for Ito was approved by a Rank Leader (me). He spoke to me first and I was fully capable of telling him no and walk out the door without a care. I only agreed to it because I thought it be good practice and I like to spook people.

The CPs getting into politics is my problem there but I understand your reasoning.

 

[Vinyl]

Now, CCA can use CPs for their personal agenda, just like how Haruto Ito ordered (or requested, I don't know the details but if it was a request, RL's should've punished these CPs and Ito for that action) CPs to "raid" the CMU and scare some people. CPs now became a police force under the CCA which makes the server a CityRP now.

Eh... it needs some more context than that.

We were after a certain individual that has said 'Anti-State' things in a gathering of loyalist, said person was a member of the loyalist party and was going to be trialed.

Haruto Ito requested not ordered CP's to assist him with capturing said individual, which they and a present Rank Leader happily obliged to.

Not many people share my view but CCA and CPs should be completely seperated and their only connection should be through the Overseers, CPs are individually not important as RedHotGinger said but the CP faction as a whole is the face of the Combine, if they look weak, Combine looks weak.

I see value in this, and would be happy as a member of the CCA either way, but if that is to happen Overseers should mind their own business and stop interfering as much as they do with Civil Administration as they do at this moment. Separate entities seperate tasks.

 

[theHandgun]

Eh... it needs some more context than that.

We were after a certain individual that has said 'Anti-State' things in a gathering of loyalist, said person was a member of the loyalist party and was going to be trialed.

Haruto Ito requested not ordered CP's to assist him with capturing said individual, which they and a present Rank Leader happily obliged to.

We can ignore this case then, the point is, CCA can now use CPs like a police force to enforce their will on any citizen.

I see value in this, and would be happy as a member of the CCA either way, but if that is to happen Overseers should mind their own business and stop interfering as much as they do with Civil Administration as they do at this moment. Separate entities seperate tasks.

Overseers used to just...oversee things. If there is no trouble, they would be offline and if there was a problem with CPs, they would fix the problem and flag off immediately. I don't know how the roles have changed, but I am against them intervening any CCA matter if there is no major problem.

Also the Ministry of Civil Protection? I know it's in the lore but I see no point in CP's being represented in the CCA.

 

[Wraygun]

It was only two units.

You make it out to seem like more than two people got punished and got upset when really we had a good laugh.

I don't make it seem like it, I know for a fact that there are more than two people. With the people I mentioned in the screenshots and me, we're already three. The rest of the people got 99'd over this was Constas and Culture and I'm sure I don't have to ask for their opinion in order to know that the entire act was uncalled for. Don't downplay it by saying it's two units. Even if it was just two units, something like this has no place inside a faction that represents the face of the server. Period.

 

[vilhjalmrf]

I think the point he's trying to make is that the only thing stopping these avenues of roleplay becoming more common is that the setting of C24 does not allow it - not really - because Its a loyalist city that always resets to the absolute and most rigid version of the status quo. It would have impact if it was possible.

To be honest with you, that 'loyalist' status really doesn't mean anything. It enforces nothing. CPs have and are mostly in free reign mode till a RL+ takes notice. The one reason why they never go full-corrupt mode is literally just because what benefit is there? Fun? Sure. I agree, it's fun. But like most who are trying to go for the long run, they have an easier time being the way they are than they are being corrupt. And the way I see it, to be corrupt is to mean you're trying to have it easy. Taking shortcuts. Only way I see these units being corrupt is if Command starts going full-dictator mode, cutting off rations and limiting their payment severely. Leading to units to stealing citizen's rations like before or taking bribes or straight up robbing people.

I mentioned it before somewhere but corruption is mostly hindered by the layout of the map as it's pretty easy to get caught if you aren't careful enough. But other than that, CPs are just comfortable at the point that corruption is just useless. This isn't because we're a loyalist city. Switch us to a different setting, it'll still be the same. It all just depends on the inner working of the Civil Protection system.

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I don't make it seem like it, I know for a fact that there are more than two people. With the people I mentioned in the screenshots and me, we're already three. The rest of the people got 99'd over this was Constas and Culture and I'm sure I don't have to ask for their opinion in order to know that the entire act was uncalled for. Don't downplay it by saying it's two units. Even if it was just two units, something like this has no place inside a faction that represents the face of the server. Period.

I stand corrected then. I'll clarify that I've only seen Aqua and Neonity punished and Aqua never mentioned anything and stick purely IC and never mentioned it after to my knowledge. Leading to me think he didn't really care. Hearing others such as Culture and Contras being punished is either new to me or competely slipped my mind as I had no hand in it. As I said before, I still agree with you. The whole emoji reaction thing was a shitpost itself.

 

[Vulpes Callida]

i don't think you guys know what you want

 

[vilhjalmrf]

I think the point he's trying to make is that the only thing stopping these avenues of roleplay becoming more common is that the setting of C24 does not allow it - not really - because Its a loyalist city that always resets to the absolute and most rigid version of the status quo. It would have impact if it was possible.

But the practicality of actually doing corruption alone with the current setup is (every transaction is virtual and monitored for example) and any idea to loosen things off a bit and explore other avenues is met with "no, it won't fit."

Also yeah, sometimes as staff you do have to force people to act in certain ways for the enjoyment of all, but eventually it becomes normalized and more enjoyable.

I also want to add on that the 'corruption' in i17 was literally just units dancing at the rave, taking off their mask, and just idiocy in general mostly. Nothing else. I don't know what kind of corruption people expect or want from the faction but that kind obviously doesn't last long. It lasted for like 1-3 days in fact. After the crazy parties, everything returned to as normal as if it was C24 street duty again. Patrols, re-educations, stealing citizen's credits, amputations, promotions, requests from the Administration, etc. All while we were still under the corrupt Administration. Only difference was that we were on a new map and most of us on new chars.

And I prefer for staff to not be "Hey, be corrupt!". I rather have our system influence them, let it be to their freedom. Just as I mentioned before.

 

[Furious]

I agree, we should lower the brightness setting on the panels.

 

[Rabid]

To be honest with you, that 'loyalist' status really doesn't mean anything. It enforces nothing.

Tbf I've seen a good number of suggestions turned down for no other reason than "It wouldn't fit C24" or "Its a loyalist city, it makes no sense".

I know that doesn't apply to everything and obviously I'm not saying you should have an entire faction just "be corrupt" but sometimes it feels like Willard is afraid to branch out even a little. As I said on the last page; you can suggest complex dev suggestions and they'll be accepted in no time but you broach certain things and there's such an overwhelming pushback against it.

Personally though I think going back to a generic HL2 dystopia would be a big mistake and would get even more boring.

 

[vilhjalmrf]

Tbf I've seen a good number of suggestions turned down for no other reason than "It wouldn't fit C24" or "Its a loyalist city, it makes no sense".

I know that doesn't apply to everything and obviously I'm not saying you should have an entire faction just "be corrupt" but sometimes it feels like Willard is afraid to branch out even a little. As I said on the last page; you can suggest complex dev suggestions and they'll be accepted in no time but you broach certain things and there's such an overwhelming pushback against it.

Personally though I think going back to a generic HL2 dystopia would be a big mistake and would get even more boring.

I've seen a few of those suggestions get rejected for that reason as well. I really don't remember the specifics but regardless... in my honest opinion, fuck the whole 'Loyalist City Status' thing lol. This isn't to say we should outright remove loyalism/loyalist party. They play a good part in giving citizens actually something that isn't them getting smacked if done right. But in my eyes that status 'existing' is just useless.

 

[Merlinsclaw]

good cca-cop relations (real) (fake)



also loyalist city or not, doesn't matter. the RP hasn't changed in over a year despite attempts to do so. we need something refreshing for the day-to-day of the server