Enforce PK rules

[Mercury]

What tends to happen in EVERY HL2RP server I've played is a cycle of a small group of vocal rebel players (the intransigent minority) being upset at X, Y, and Z. They use OOC loopholes and relentless complaints (valid or not) to achieve their goals instead of IC actions. Whether or not that's the case here, it's impossible to tell, but I want to ensure that it never actually comes to that.

If you want for it to actually never come to that, then why don't you get the proper facts and information before posting an entire suggestion thread and pinging all of the rebel leadership and insulting them? I personally have gone through the trouble of getting a copious amount of information on TAC grenades, including contacting people in OTA, contacting both OTA leads and sitting in a VC for hours with one of them, contacting 2 CAs, asking admins about specific situations, asking various rebels and getting video evidence, and now I'm waiting for an internal investigation from a CA about potential meta gaming before posting a suggestion on their removal.

 

[verTix]

If you want for it to actually never come to that, then why don't you get the proper facts and information before posting an entire suggestion thread and pinging all of the rebel leadership? I personally have gone through the trouble of getting a copious amount of information on TAC grenades, including contacting people in OTA, contacting both OTA leads and sitting in a VC for hours with one of them, contacting 2 CAs, asking admins about specific situations, asking various rebels and getting video evidence, and now I'm waiting for an internal investigation from a CA about potential meta gaming before posting a suggestion on their removal.

Faction rules prevent me from doing the same thing in reverse.

And forgive me, but after seeing logs of your members shit-talking me in private, any sort of idea I had that your guys want to perhaps actually come together and solve problems was completely squashed.

 

[Mercury]

Faction rules prevent me from doing the same thing in reverse.

If you are unable to ask admins if any rebels died in the first wave or other OTA (especially after the fact), then I think that should be changed and I would push for that to be changed.

And forgive me, but after seeing logs of your members shit-talking me in private, any sort of idea I had that your guys want to perhaps actually come together and solve problems was completely squashed.

It is them internally expressing their frustration with some of the methods of your complaints, such as your rather direct way of criticizing the resistance generally. I believe that we all reserve the right to be heated and blow off steam to our friends. However, when it comes to a productive setting (like this), we should be able to set that aside for the general betterment.

 

[Mercury]

It is them internally expressing their frustration with some of the methods of your complaints, such as your rather direct way of criticizing the resistance generally. I believe that we all reserve the right to be heated and blow off steam to our friends. However, when it comes to a productive setting (like this), we should be able to set that aside for the general betterment.

For instance, sags and I sat in a talk for hours with an OTA lead and have been conversing with the other OTA lead over discord. Quite productively as well, might I add.

 

[verTix]

If you are unable to ask admins if any rebels died in the first wave or other OTA (especially after the fact), then I think that should be changed and I would push for that to be changed.

It's more that OTA members are discouraged from affiliating with rebels due to metagame concerns. It wasn't always this way; someone had both whitelists and metagamed hard, and now the rule's in place. Also, I'm not really in a position to be inquisitive. I've actively avoided any sort of leadership position, and as such, don't really have a pedestal in "lead chats."

It is them internally expressing their frustration with some of the methods of your complaints, such as your rather direct way of criticizing the resistance generally. I believe that we all reserve the right to be heated and blow off steam to our friends. However, when it comes to a productive setting (like this), we should be able to set that aside for the general betterment.

Sure. I'm only so direct now because every other server I've played doesn't really seem to accept a more subtle approach. People have to fight the vocal minority or they will get their way while everyone else stands by and watches.

 

[taptap]

rebels didn’t blow up shit or hang dead bodies like decorations in hl2 they were all humble and motivated by freedom, not scripts or hate or whatever

EHHH WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
When you get the Bugbait in hl2 you find a combine on a pike you throw it at. Also, there are dozens of instances in Hl2 of rebels blowing stuff up.

 

[verTix]

Also, there are dozens of instances in Hl2 of rebels blowing stuff up.

not before freeman shows up lol

 

[Gyrann]

Imagine redeploying into the same sweep as soon as you die LOL what is this dark rp. Call of duty life

 

[verTix]

Imagine redeploying into the same sweep as soon as you die LOL what is this dark rp. Call of duty life

wasn't there. don't care. irrelevant.

 

[The Milkman]

Who cares about retail hl2 this is hl2rp we make our own rules u know whole lotta gang shit knowhaimean

Also stop malding over a roleplaying game, this is like writing a book with the help of other people but you're constantly arguing with them over the book and gaining genuine hate over another individual because their fictional character did bad thing to ur fictional character

 

[Gyrann]

wasn't there. don't care. irrelevant.

I was. I read the entirety of OTA chat during the whole thing.

 

[verTix]

I was. I read the entirety of OTA chat during the whole thing.

i didn't excuse their actions any more than the CMs did

 

[Maroon]

I mean, this thread is kind of moot since the PK rules were enforced. Not a single rebel died in the first raid, and it's only during the second one (where OTA breached the timer rule and spammed incendaries that, conveniently, were omitted from the regular craft menu until after the raids) where people got NLRd and refunded.

If anything, yesterday showed that OTA can and should be beaten (maybe due to their VC communications finally being disallowed) which is a step in the right direction.

 

[Black Flag]

I mean, this thread is kind of moot since the PK rules were enforced. Not a single rebel died in the first raid, and it's only during the second one (where OTA breached the timer rule and spammed incendaries that, conveniently, were omitted from the regular craft menu until after the raids) where people got NLRd and refunded.

If anything, yesterday showed that OTA can and should be beaten (maybe due to their VC communications finally being disallowed) which is a step in the right direction.

An ambush involving the other side having superior firepower doesn’t prove that VC is an overwhelming advantage. Seeing as they all were killed by a door in the second engagement. Granted, if OTA were given the knowledge of the new rule this could have turned out differently who knows. Next time.

 

[Rabid]

It's one thing to get fully geared up and armed by a singular raid; however, it is expected for Rebels to be armed. For example in HL2, the Rebels within C-17 managed to create things like the SLAM, had geared themselves with rocket launchers and the gun used on the gunboat. You're making it seem like the Rebels' got excessive amounts of gear from this, but realistically there is still a lot of roleplay to be had.

Not at all - my point isn't that the Resistance is getting armed, because of course they're going to want guns. I respect that.

My point is you cannot advocate for PK's for cops because they are forced into scenarios that are easily baited when there are no situations where they could bait or force rebels into a PK on equal grounds. A rebel can get a gun and store it or never use it. A cop gets a gun and is sent into the sewers to possibly die and get PK'd under the notion of 'fairness' as if rebels are being told to do the same, which they aren't.

And bearing in mind this is the same Resistance who wiped out an OTA response with zero losses. That hardly seems like a weak Resistance that needs to be coddled.

If anything, yesterday showed that OTA can and should be beaten (maybe due to their VC communications finally being disallowed) which is a step in the right direction.

Honestly I'm surprised its a thing that is being praised. You've already had your main OOC balance check get obliterated and driven off without a single loss and the Resistance having the superior firepower to do it. That is going to embolden people and not in a way that'll be positive for the server dynamic.

If you can't count on OTA to be able to actually put the Resistance back a step when you need them to then that is going to bite you in the ass, hard.

You are going to run into that sort of situation eventually (soon if this was any indication) and that assurance won't be there for you. That'll force management to over-correct by stacking the deck to ensure they win to reset the balance and probably causing more of a shitstorm than a simple OTA raid would.

 

[Sagsworth]

My point is you cannot advocate for PK's for cops because they are forced into scenarios that are easily baited when there are no situations where they could bait or force rebels into a PK on equal grounds. A rebel can get a gun and store it or never use it. A cop gets a gun and is sent into the sewers to possibly die and get PK'd under the notion of 'fairness' as if rebels are being told to do the same, which they aren't.

Vortigaunts are forced into situations by their whitelist that get them PK'ed, the idea that your whitelist comes with risks shouldn't be a shock to anyone. Cops are always able to withdraw from firefights and have done before to avoid dying, the only time that fights have been close have been when free vortigaunts were involved.

In terms of the first OTA squad, rebels got 3-4 kills thanks to a fluke - the OTA leads said this, the community managers said this, the rebel representatives said this. The OTA were poorly led, they should have withdrawn and come back in force but instead tried to tangle with three vortigaunts (everyone else may as well have been bullet sponges).

The second that OTA reorganised and a different person lead the sweep, they stomped the rebels and the only reason some survived was by hiding while their friends were slaughtered. So I don't think anyone thinks the OTA are no longer a threat, or that now rebels will stomp every OTA sweep - rebels were immediately put in their place.

 

[Rabid]

Vortigaunts are forced into situations by their whitelist that get them PK'ed, why the idea that your whitelist comes with risks shouldn't be a shock to anyone.

The fact that they're PK'd for being in the only place they safely can be is really sort of silly but that's for another discussion. They're also not vital to keeping server balance, unlike cops, and can't be baited so that's not an entirely a fair comparison.

In terms of the first OTA squad, rebels got 3-4 kills thanks to a fluke - the OTA leads said this, the community managers said this, the rebel representatives said this. The OTA were poorly led, they should have withdrawn and come back in force but instead tried to tangle with three vortigaunts (everyone else may as well have been bullet sponges).

The second that OTA reorganised and a different person lead the sweep, they stomped the rebels and the only reason some survived was by hiding while their friends were slaughtered. So I don't think anyone thinks the OTA are no longer a threat, or that now rebels will stomp every OTA sweep - rebels were immediately put in their place.

Fair enough then. But I'd still be incredibly wary of how such things are handled, because even managing to do it via fluke puts the current Resistance at a level that would be relatively end game for a lot of other communities out there. Balancing that is never easy.

 

[Stinky Rags]

You curb a lot of these problems when you:

A) Remove PKs by NPCs in the sewers, and deaths outside of Combine sweeps.

B) Stop OTA sweeping the sewers unless it's for something extremely, extremely dire and severe.

C) Give more PK possibilities to CPs if that's the way the server wants to go and not do a much broader NLR system. CPs will be far less likely to raid the slums and do crazy things if they know they're returning to RCT. CPs will also be more realistic I hope, and exercise Fear RP properly instead of laughing in the face of death just to rematerialise in the nexus after a brief loading screen.

I've got no problem with the OTA faction at all, but they're the military- the transhuman military, and a very numerically limited military. There are not a lot of OTA soldiers when you compare them to citizens and Civil Protection; they're the elite, and the Elites are the elite of the elite. You only start seeing the Elite OTA during Nova Prospekt and then only see them in the citadel after that in HL2, they're not running around the streets. You only see them start to filter out and be in the open world when the City is literally on the brink of collapse. The OTA doesn't even run around in the streets when Gordon Freeman shows up and starts blowing up helicopters. I think the soldiers should only really be utilised in times of extreme socio-instability or if a public address is to be made by the CA or the VA.

I understand that curbs a lot of RP for OTA rpers, but bear in mind that for a lot of servers and communities this is the standard. OTA isn't supposed to be fully fleshed main characters; they have all personality wiped away, they're brainwashed to hell and back and are more robot than human, if you have that army itch there's conscripts, I fully believe OTA shouldn't be out all the time because they are a PK squad. They've got better stats, gear and weapons than everyone and they can just run in and out of the nexus when something goes bad provided they didn't die.

Ultimately if there's no PK risk for anything I think it becomes stale; there are risks in trying to free your Vort, there are risks in being a rebel in the sewers, there are risks in being a CP forced to sweep said sewers. I think the problem right now is the balance of who gets PKed is really skewed, and the level of violence employed on the rebel and vortigaunt factions that ultimately result in mass-PK is also really bad.

 

[HOKI]

You curb a lot of these problems when you:

A) Remove PKs by NPCs in the sewers, and deaths outside of Combine sweeps.

PK's by NPCs are great. You shouldn't feel safe in the underground by any means. It makes NPCs way more dangerous, and imo, that's good.

B) Stop OTA sweeping the sewers unless it's for something extremely, extremely dire and severe.

OTA swept because there were three free vortigaunts spotted, which is pretty dire, since they can pretty much easily destroy entire teams of Civil Protection.
However, I do agree with you on this, CPs should attempt to contain something like that (e.g one vortigaunt spotted) before OTA does.

Though I think OTA should sweep only if one or two CP sweeps failed miserably or a high presence of vortigaunts (like yesterday) that participated in wrecking the cops, but I also think that rebels shouldn't be able to hide in their bases immediately after they win an altercation (like a 15 minute wait), since that's just unfair, you should reap what you sow.

C) Give more PK possibilities to CPs if that's the way the server wants to go and not do a much broader NLR system. CPs will be far less likely to raid the slums and do crazy things if they know they're returning to RCT. CPs will also be more realistic I hope, and exercise Fear RP properly instead of laughing in the face of death just to rematerialise in the nexus after a brief loading screen.

Deranks to RCT is a stupid idea, since if CPs get absolutely dumpster'd in a sweep, you will have like 10 recruits and the faction will be fucked because of that.
PK & a possible derank to a lower rank (e.g, i3 to i4).

Ultimately if there's no PK risk for anything I think it becomes stale; there are risks in trying to free your Vort, there are risks in being a rebel in the sewers, there are risks in being a CP forced to sweep said sewers. I think the problem right now is the balance of who gets PKed is really skewed, and the level of violence employed on the rebel and vortigaunt factions that ultimately result in mass-PK is also really bad.

I agree, PK's make every altercation way more intense and should be enforced the same way for everyone, except OTA since they really don't have characters.

 

[Rabid]

Ultimately if there's no PK risk for anything I think it becomes stale; there are risks in trying to free your Vort, there are risks in being a rebel in the sewers, there are risks in being a CP forced to sweep said sewers.

One of these things is not like the other, though.

You choose to free your vort. You choose to stay in the sewers as a rebel. You are literally threatened with a PK if you do not walk your ass into a possible ambush as a cop. If this sort of thing existed for rebels people would absolutely flip.

Expecting the faction to PK themselves over keeping server balance on a reactionary basis is doomed to fail and cause massive problems. People will take advantage of it or just refuse to sweep and either way the dynamic goes to shit. I've seen it happen, you don't want it here.