Magazine system

[M3ntal]

To be brief. We just tested it out. It's needlessly convoluted, and overly slow. Realism is good and all, but this is just fucking horrendous. Please, for the love of god, remove this sytem, and re-implement the old one.

 

[M3ntal]

Right, so I think my complaint holds some water then. The weapon system on it's own shouldn't be removed, no. The magazine system, however, is very, very cumbersome. I could maybe see myself using it if the recipes for the actual magazines were there, but I got told when I made a ticket that I need to acquire it through IC means. A BMD for example. So, in that instance, all the chips I spent on materials to produce ammo just went up in smoke. If you're gonna keep this system, at the very least allow players to get about an equivalent amount of full magazines to what they had prior.
I'm pretty sure the ammo counts persist until you equip a magazine, so I think people can check so there's no 'foul play' or anything.

 

[Robert]

I am working on adding the magazines, recipes for bullets has already been done, just now need to work on the magazines which is being done. We are also working on adding a Ammo Bag which means you don't even need to carry around your mags in your main inventory, but instead inside of a additional ammo bag. Plus, asking to remove something which was just added has never been Willard's style of Development, instead we add, gain suggestions, and improve based on provided suggestions.

Outright removal is not really preferable as it wastes the person who made it time.

 

[FungletheBungle]

I love magazine systems so keep them in.
Literally just a skill issue, imagine desiring infinite (close to) ammo in a serious RP server

 

[M3ntal]

I love magazine systems so keep them in.
Literally just a skill issue, imagine desiring infinite (close to) ammo in a serious RP server

No offense but did you actually try the system out at all or are you saying this from a completely uninformed perspective?

 

[M3ntal]

I love magazine systems so keep them in.
Literally just a skill issue, imagine desiring infinite (close to) ammo in a serious RP server

And for the record, nobody wants 'infinite ammo'. What people don't want however, is the tedium that is the current magazine system. I would cope with using it if it were actually properly implemented, but I asked an admin about magazines and I got told I had to get them through BMD's. So what, does all my prior ammo that I had (which wasn't even much, just the maximum amount able to be carried rifle-wise, go up in smoke?

 

[Pandafish]

I remember asking for this awhile back, where I thought a DayZ-like magazine system would be pretty dope. Fit the attachments on your weapon like it was a container, cool custom shit. But the execution and implementation seen here is shoe on head retarded.

The update is clearly unfinished; half the guns have descriptions like 'TBD' leading me to believe it was pushed early as a band-aid fix for TFA being deprecated. When I loaded my RL and checked out my new shotgun, I was baffled to find out I needed a magazine for my fucking shotgun to function; I get the devs aren't gun nuts but I would at least expect some sort of an amnesty for certain guns to function with no magazine as is possible IRL. And from what I can tell, single-chambering isn't possible, so I'm not sure how this new system is supposed to improve RP - it's just another frustrating, half-baked automated gameplay system that frankly no one asked for, and seemingly only done to modernize the ammo part of the codebase (done in the middle of the server lifespan, so if you're an old player returning, you're basically fucked in regards to any old guns you have).

But here's my biggest question against all the benefits and disadvantages of TFA and Arc CW..

Why not the default GMod weapon base?
Like, the one the HL2 guns are built off and requires no content. You have total control over everything to do with a SWEP because it's just lua! Damage can be anything you want, make your own custom firemode function, spread can be crazy accurate or CS-like! Why do we need all this buggy inventory glitching attachment shit and q menu config crap and crosshair customization and HUD derma for a roleplay server?
This drive to make the server feel more modern has produced some terrible design choices IMO. From an outsiders perspective, this magazine/Arc CW integration looks like a complete joke.

Just take a look at what my Uzi turned into and what I found waiting for me in the customization tab.



It doesn't get much better than this. Tally ho!

 

[Gr4Ss]

I remember asking for this awhile back, where I thought a DayZ-like magazine system would be pretty dope. Fit the attachments on your weapon like it was a container, cool custom shit. But the execution and implementation seen here is shoe on head retarded.

The update is clearly unfinished; half the guns have descriptions like 'TBD' leading me to believe it was pushed early as a band-aid fix for TFA being deprecated. When I loaded my RL and checked out my new shotgun, I was baffled to find out I needed a magazine for my fucking shotgun to function; I get the devs aren't gun nuts but I would at least expect some sort of an amnesty for certain guns to function with no magazine as is possible IRL. And from what I can tell, single-chambering isn't possible, so I'm not sure how this new system is supposed to improve RP - it's just another frustrating, half-baked automated gameplay system that frankly no one asked for, and seemingly only done to modernize the ammo part of the codebase (done in the middle of the server lifespan, so if you're an old player returning, you're basically fucked in regards to any old guns you have).

But here's my biggest question against all the benefits and disadvantages of TFA and Arc CW..

Why not the default GMod weapon base?
Like, the one the HL2 guns are built off and requires no content. You have total control over everything to do with a SWEP because it's just lua! Damage can be anything you want, make your own custom firemode function, spread can be crazy accurate or CS-like! Why do we need all this buggy inventory glitching attachment shit and q menu config crap and crosshair customization and HUD derma for a roleplay server?
This drive to make the server feel more modern has produced some terrible design choices IMO. From an outsiders perspective, this magazine/Arc CW integration looks like a complete joke.

Just take a look at what my Uzi turned into and what I found waiting for me in the customization tab.

View attachment 14761

It doesn't get much better than this. Tally ho!

If only people could read... but I'll reiterate.

1. TFA is a dead broken horse. Continuing with it was no option. Hence why we switched, perhaps earlier than we wanted to but it was the lesser evil at this point (and less of a waste of my time fixing a gun base that is 1. broken and 2. end of life).
2. I had to take a very much unexpected, very much needed LOA for personal reasons. This does mean ArcCW stuff perhaps wasn't as far done as I would have wanted it to be when it went live. But given my previous point there was no option to delay it.
3. Attachment and ammo crafting will be added soon. It is less effort to add that in than to switch back to any old system and then switch back to ArcCW again. We only got TFA to switch back to and guess what... it is broken even worse.
4. As to using some other weapon base, I am not going to reinvent the wheel. We got perfectly functional weapon bases out there that I'm not going to bother to recreate. The effort just isn't worth it if we can grab a weapon base from workshop that has tons of content ready made for it.
5. HL2RP used to use simpler weapon bases in the past (M9k or even older shit) and honestly they sucked donkey balls too. I am definitely not making my own weapons as a developer who has zero experience coding weapons.

And honestly most of the QQ is 'we cannot craft magazines yet' or 'it takes up too much inventory space' which are both points that will be fixed a lot quicker than us spending effort to fix TFA and change back at this point so...

Tl;dr: ArcCW is staying. Magazine system is staying. You can cry a river all you want but we're not going back to TFA ever again. I know ArcCW wasn't 100% done yet and below the usual quality of big overhaul features I deliver but in all honesty I had much bigger issues IRL to deal with. We'll work some of the kinks out as we go along with it.

 

[verTix]

do you guys have a script that binds attachments to weapons and if so can i have it

 

[Donavin Jones]

Bro, idk if I was high or tired af or both, but I deadass thought this was a suggestion to add it.
Yes, please remove this.

 

[Liam]

I love magazine systems so keep them in.
Literally just a skill issue, imagine desiring infinite (close to) ammo in a serious RP server

When u hit disagree instead of a big fat AGREE by accident...

 

[Liam]

All of this is legit a skill issue. You're all complaining about how slow the system is and not having enough bullets...the only extra step is dragging bullets into a mag. That's it! Takes about 2 seconds if that.

Additionally, you have THE SAME amount of ammo as before. Yet you're all whining you are severley limited. Just because it can't all instantly be loaded doesn't mean it isn't there. Having mags in your inventory and hitting R still loads a new one.

In my ops this is exactly what people needed. People see an NPC and expect to be able to defeat it no matter what, blaming deaths on bugs and glitches. Some npcs are damage sponges, yeah. Maybe don't fight them if you are ill prepared? Just a suggestion. All I can see in this entire thread is whiney, incohrent complaints because people can't have a magic pool of ammo anymore. I'm sorry to say, hl2 serious RP is not meant to be like COD.

Also, as Robert said quitre clearly, although it seems to have gone ignored as evidenced by further comments: Magazine crafting recipes are being worked on! In the mean time, I'm sure a GM will be happy to accomodate and GM you a crafting process.

Also yes, I have used the new system. I'm not just advocating for something I have never used.

One last point, Grass literally stated magazines comes hand in hand with ARC weapons. You cannot have one nor the other. Yet people are still asking he keep the base and remove the mags. As he said, that's impossible so stop asking for it.

TFA is broken. Everyone used to rage because their guns did no damage. Yet now you want it back. Make up your minds. Either way, people will always find something to complain about. TFA being a genuine issue, this complaint is just personal preference nitpicking.

 

[Donavin Jones]

All of this is legit a skill issue. You're all complaining about how slow the system is and not having enough bullets...the only extra step is dragging bullets into a mag. That's it! Takes about 2 seconds if that.

Additionally, you have THE SAME amount of ammo as before. Yet you're all whining you are severley limited. Just because it can't all instantly be loaded doesn't mean it isn't there. Having mags in your inventory and hitting R still loads a new one.

In my ops this is exactly what people needed. People see an NPC and expect to be able to defeat it no matter what, blaming deaths on bugs and glitches. Some npcs are damage sponges, yeah. Maybe don't fight them if you are ill prepared? Just a suggestion. All I can see in this entire thread is whiney, incohrent complaints because people can't have a magic pool of ammo anymore. I'm sorry to say, hl2 serious RP is not meant to be like COD.

Also, as Robert said quitre clearly, although it seems to have gone ignored as evidenced by further comments: Magazine crafting recipes are being worked on! In the mean time, I'm sure a GM will be happy to accomodate and GM you a crafting process.

Also yes, I have used the new system. I'm not just advocating for something I have never used.

One last point, Grass literally stated magazines comes hand in hand with ARC weapons. You cannot have one nor the other. Yet people are still asking he keep the base and remove the mags. As he said, that's impossible so stop asking for it.

TFA is broken. Everyone used to rage because their guns did no damage. Yet now you want it back. Make up your minds. Either way, people will always find something to complain about. TFA being a genuine issue, this complaint is just personal preference nitpicking.

Yes, I agree. But just cause its a serious RP, doesn't mean it has to be uber realistic. And the thing is, we cant even craft the ammo yet. (which will come soon) but I think people will generally find this tedious and annoying, especially newer players.

 

[Liam]

Yes, I agree. But just cause its a serious RP, doesn't mean it has to be uber realistic. And the thing is, we cant even craft the ammo yet. (which will come soon) but I think people will generally find this tedious and annoying, especially newer players.

Tedium is entirely your problem. The systen isn't realistic at all. Irl, you would need to spend minutes upon minutes stood or sat still loading each individiual bullet into a magazine. It's fiddly and slow. On here you drag it...done. instantly. Can be done in combat with no issues.

Alternativley, if you don't like that, use older weapons. Pump action shotguns or revolvers for example don't have magazines. They are loaded with just the bullets/shells themselves. On that note @Robert it'd be pretty cool to add bandoilers as an equivelent to ammo bags for bullet storage for guns like this.

 

[KG!]

All of this is legit a skill issue. You're all complaining about how slow the system is and not having enough bullets...the only extra step is dragging bullets into a mag. That's it! Takes about 2 seconds if that.

Main issue is storage. They are obnoxious space-takers. Having to implement an entire new 'ammo/gun bag' in order to carry it around is incredibly unnecessary and, if they operate anything like bags/satchels do, will not make it very quick to move around. Every single second counts when you're in combat.

One last point, Grass literally stated magazines comes hand in hand with ARC weapons. You cannot have one nor the other. Yet people are still asking he keep the base and remove the mags. As he said, that's impossible so stop asking for it.

Guns worked fine in the Alaska event without magazines.

TFA is broken. Everyone used to rage because their guns did no damage. Yet now you want it back. Make up your minds. Either way, people will always find something to complain about. TFA being a genuine issue, this complaint is just personal preference nitpicking.

No one here has said we should go back to TFA, just that magazines are too micro, clunky, unfun, etc. It's just unnecessary time wasting in an RP server. No one will have fun in an S2K event with multiple allies where after a long firefight they have to pause, open the tab menu, and reload magazines while everyone else is wandering away from them because you cannot reliably control a large group of people quickly in a text-based roleplay server. This is one example of MANY.

 

[Liam]

Main issue is storage. They are obnoxious space-takers. Having to implement an entire new 'ammo/gun bag' in order to carry it around is incredibly unnecessary and, if they operate anything like bags/satchels do, will not make it very quick to move around. Every single second counts when you're in combat.

Again, a skill issue. People are insistant on being wasteful. Anyone who uses a gun on zombies/base antlions has only themselves to blame for an ammo defecit. When I have played rebel, I take my gun as back up into the sewers. Rarley ever use it. Occasionally I clear a barnicle with it if I think it might kill somone else. Any other time where I actually need it, two mags is more than plenty. But people over use guns in a major way and thus ammunition.

Guns worked fine in the Alaska event without magazines.

Equipping/unequiping caused ammo to duplicate.

No one here has said we should go back to TFA,

Refer to the very first post on this thread.

 

[Robert]

Okay, this is just all-out war on Magazines for only a few select players who don't find the system to their liking. However, please do note that as Gr4Ss has stated, just like we had to state for TBC in the past, its on of those systems we don't plan on removing... only improving.

If you do not like it and suggest for its removal, then you are not really helping to "Improve" it at all, just being a doom speaker in wanting it gone this second here and now in belief that the system can't be improved. As previously stated: We won't revert because of the fact all older systems are dead, gone and broken. It's quicker to improve than remove a system.

Magazines are now craftable for relatively cheap costs, I will work on reducing bullet costs soon as well as the balance rework is now back in progress after a long hiatus which will reduce costs across the board which in turn reduce the amount of grind as we move away from an inflated in-game economy from a certain-someones Era. This also in turn means BMDs will soon be selling items much cheaper too and chips will have new ways to be acquired, albeit not in high amounts like before.

All in all, the systems as we know it are changing once again to facility all the changes we are making. This is ontop of the fact we are looking at Ammo Bags and Kevlar holding ammo as well to reduce the Inventory strain.

This is the last time I will bother speaking here since I will be a bit grouchy in saying more than half of you don't read.

So here is TLDR:
- Magazines will stay with improvements made overtime (Quicker to improve than remove)
- Impossible to switch back to old systems
- Ammo bag and Ammo in Kevlar being worked on, reducing inventory strain
- Crafting, Medical and Skills rework are back in progress after long hiatus(Smuggling and BMDs will be affected and chip inflation will be bye-bye)
- You can now craft Magazines btw in-game

 

[Kamilisha Haijulikani]

I love magazine systems so keep them in.
Literally just a skill issue, imagine desiring infinite (close to) ammo in a serious RP server

My only grievance with the magazine system is that it and the gun switch killed the majority of my ammunition, though admittedly, I'd margin that a good portion of that ammunition came as a result of a bug/glitches. I don't play rebel characters that often, so it doesn't bother me to the extent that it bothers others.

Open to change, and love the idea. Want to see it fairly and neatly implemented.

 

[Blitz]

Or give us more inventory space. I like the idea of magazines and the slower pace and more realistic aspect. But the magazines jumping around in your inventory as you reload and the extremely limited space now that magazines are a thing needs to be looked into

EDIT:
(As a reply to KG's latest post - didn't realise other people had posted in the meanwhile)

EDIT 2:
Never mind, I'm dumb. There's a second page, LOL.

 

[Gr4Ss]

Main issue is storage. They are obnoxious space-takers. Having to implement an entire new 'ammo/gun bag' in order to carry it around is incredibly unnecessary and, if they operate anything like bags/satchels do, will not make it very quick to move around. Every single second counts when you're in combat.


Guns worked fine in the Alaska event without magazines.


No one here has said we should go back to TFA, just that magazines are too micro, clunky, unfun, etc. It's just unnecessary time wasting in an RP server. No one will have fun in an S2K event with multiple allies where after a long firefight they have to pause, open the tab menu, and reload magazines while everyone else is wandering away from them because you cannot reliably control a large group of people quickly in a text-based roleplay server. This is one example of MANY.

Please explain to me how this takes up any less space than needing to carry ammo boxes in your inventory? And before you say 'magic ammo pool', I have wanted to kill that since we started WN - it doesn't fit an RP environment at all.

Please explain how this takes more time (refer to Liam's post for the rant on why that makes no sense)? Honestly the way I see people spam medical shit and armor repairs mid-S2K, I do not believe ninja dragging ammo onto magazines will be an issue in between fights. Not any more game breaking than having to right click ammo boxes and selecting load in between fights to replenish your 'magic ammo pool'.

Or give us more inventory space. I like the idea of magazines and the slower pace and more realistic aspect. But the magazines jumping around in your inventory as you reload and the extremely limited space now that magazines are a thing needs to be looked into

EDIT:
(As a reply to KG's latest post - didn't realise other people had posted in the meanwhile)

EDIT 2:
Never mind, I'm dumb. There's a second page, LOL.

Magazines jumping around is a good point. I can actually look into this. E.g. make a magazine go back into the same spot it was taken from when you reload, unless something else is there in the meantime. Actual 10/10 useful feedback.

My only grievance with the magazine system is that it and the gun switch killed the majority of my ammunition, though admittedly, I'd margin that a good portion of that ammunition came as a result of a bug/glitches. I don't play rebel characters that often, so it doesn't bother me to the extent that it bothers others.

Open to change, and love the idea. Want to see it fairly and neatly implemented.

If I had time I'd have coded something in for this but just didn't have the chance to do it. There should have been a limit in place as to how much ammo you could equip under the old system anyway so in all honesty the impact isn't entirely infinite.

The new system also makes ammo refunds less open to abuse.

 

[Blitz]

Magazines jumping around is a good point. I can actually look into this. E.g. make a magazine go back into the same spot it was taken from when you reload, unless something else is there in the meantime. Actual 10/10 useful feedback.

Appreciate it

Another idea; If you could colourcode the magazines / their pop up text box, or change the models of the magazines to corresponding ammunition types - that would be a huge QoL update.

I'm sure the models was probably a time constraint issue, but it can be a little difficult / tedious at times to hover your mouse over the crate model to check which magazine it is, doubly so I imagine in a firefight.

Addendum:
But in the meantime, once the magazines no longer jump around it shouldn't be as big of an issue to manage the inventory so, by all means you can put that low on the priority list.