M U Z U N G U
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The cyber cafeBefore the DOB / MOC:
The CPs would go there for coffee and you would see the citizens watching Star wars: A new Hope
good times
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My (Hot?) Take on Willards Rebel Problems
- Thread starter RedHotGinger
- Start date
The CPs would go there for coffee and you would see the citizens watching Star wars: A new Hope
good times
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- Nov 17, 2018
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- 1,443
I was the one person doing the /its the entire movie up until the destruction of Alderaan... ;(
Kappatalist
Workshift Shooter
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- Sep 21, 2020
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I miss 
On an actual note though:
I'm gonna echo the above and say the DoB is a detriment to rebelRP, it's a hurdle for rebel players or indeed anybody when stores are such a core part of CityRP. The DoB clearly hasn't worked in my opinion, I haven't noticed any change in store activity before or after it's creation.
Additionally, Willard always ran with the idea of a 'surface' rebel. Somebody who blends into Union life and only brings out the heavy gear when it's needed on expeditions, operations, etc. I find now that it's in a sort of limbo between that and the classic 'sewer' rebels we all know. Sure, the actual sewers are a no-go zone for continued RP however Indigent has near enough taken it's place as an outer section of the city. I think more patrols / sweeps are needed to curb the rebels constantly walking around in gear, unless the server wants to go that direction (Please don't, but) - in which case it needs to further separate the Indigent zone to really let that sort of RP flourish, instead of being trapped in some sort of middle ground.
Simply put however, you can't just force rebels to infiltrate the City unless you make it worthwhile. Things like faction locked radios, bound key cards, rogue auth rules make infiltrating any given Union more of a pain than it's worth to. Inactive stores and a lack of RP hubs kill the CityRP further. If the City just isn't fun to RP in, yes, people will rightfully look to sitting in Indigent all day because the fact is it's actually interesting. Cameras, forcefields, lack of escape routes and more low class areas of the city don't leave much room for rebels to work. C24 has two major streets, and anybody can see what anybody else is doing from anywhere here. There's practically nothing for people to do at the moment other than expeditions which is something I don't believe is tenable simply because of the effort required for each and every one.
As for balance, I think that's just fine as is. Rebels have lost plenty, several times. And yet have won some victories too. Rebels are weak on their own, and strong together. They have the element of surprise and being able to pick their targets - they should be winning fights in the earlier stages, and losing in prolonged fighting. Which is really what we've seen imo. If anything, buff OTA and have them deploy less often.
DirectorHomeless
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One of the biggest issues with Rebel RP is how easy PK's are to dish out. every other faction on the server has a much safer position than that of a rebel, not because of gear or equipment although that does factor in. It is VERY easy to get killed as a rebel, and pretty hard to get killed as say a CP. What i mean by this is that there are physically more RULES pertaining to PK's that apply to rebels.
As for the Dark Events @Robert, the same reason above applies, if you have invested a lot of time and effort into a character, why would you take them somewhere, where death is a pretty decent outcome. The recent event that you put up to assault an outpost and you get free gear, credits etc etc......its a suicide mission, i will be very surprised if you see the few seasoned rebels there are partake and wont get a bunch of Johnny Rebel Blue-shirts, purely because all the chips in the world and all the guns simply don't equate to months of character development.
Honestly, if you wanted Rebels to be more pro-active and RP, PK people who snitch, and if they have created a character that is under a week old who walks around to only snitch, just ban them (not really, but the sentiment is there), i'd love to go out and ask people for help with a job, or talk with them and such, but we can't do that, just the other day 3-4 people were having a chat, a new guy wandered in, wandered back out and 3 CP's showed up. Snitching murders any form of passive RP to be had.
As for the Dark Events @Robert, the same reason above applies, if you have invested a lot of time and effort into a character, why would you take them somewhere, where death is a pretty decent outcome. The recent event that you put up to assault an outpost and you get free gear, credits etc etc......its a suicide mission, i will be very surprised if you see the few seasoned rebels there are partake and wont get a bunch of Johnny Rebel Blue-shirts, purely because all the chips in the world and all the guns simply don't equate to months of character development.
Honestly, if you wanted Rebels to be more pro-active and RP, PK people who snitch, and if they have created a character that is under a week old who walks around to only snitch, just ban them (not really, but the sentiment is there), i'd love to go out and ask people for help with a job, or talk with them and such, but we can't do that, just the other day 3-4 people were having a chat, a new guy wandered in, wandered back out and 3 CP's showed up. Snitching murders any form of passive RP to be had.
Sagsworth
Radio Bob Approved
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The combined MoC, CWU and CP made running a business such a pain in the ass. The original Cybercafe got closed down for a raid that was very obviously against the rules, especially considering the rules were changed two hours later to allow raids like that - and when I complained I got literally nothing. The reality is that the rules changed every five minutes based on what admin/faction member is talking to you, and when that's the case it's literally impossible to make anything work. This applies to way more than businesses by the way.
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- Dec 3, 2020
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This is actually a really good point. To be a rebel, at-least in the eyes of the people that inhabit the sewers, you'll need armor, chips and guns. All of which require hours on hours of grinding.
The fragility of ones' character because of this, enforces the bad behavior, as well as the level of RP the slums has been brought to. All based on fear of losing out, on all they worked so hard to achieve.
But, this is half-life. If we were being true-to-life, that's the reality of it. You resist, knowing that in consequently you could be dead at a minutes notice from a wrongly placed step, or bad luck.
I think the PK system would be fine as is, but we need to tweak other aspects of the roleplay. Willard has built up a grind-based experience in acquiring contraband, that proves useful to resistance members. To do this, it's requires nothing more than time. It doesn't matter how bad you might be at rp, it's available to you too.
The resistance being an open-ended, self governed factions means that the quality is based on the precedent set by staff as well as players regarding quality. To mitigate this, you could argue you could gate-keep the faction by removing opportunities for scripts at a moments notice, and forcing people to roleplay their way in. But then again, the grind-based system i'm sure attracts a lot of players, and has a lot of influence over playerbase. I even enjoy it, it's addictive.
But there needs to be a middleground, I don't think things should be as accessible as they are. But also, I think even though it's not their place, or their job, the staff/ game-masters need to devote a lot of attention into fixing the faction. Whether that be setting up groups; more events, creating a dynamic, whatever it is. But there needs to be a set standard of roleplay, so that some fuck called "Black wolf" or something can't just walk on into a camp, sit around all day hording guns and armor saying he's anti-citizen one.
𝔄𝔪𝔟𝔢𝔯𝔮
Radio Bob Approved
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0xNiklas
Radio Bob Approved
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Yeah Civil Protection doesn't seem like to care about anything. <:: Rebel there? Okay we gonna fight them and we lose? how cares lmfao ::> but they should be really afraid of the consequences that might happen, If they fail. After all CPs in HL2 got punished for failure that is why most of the CPs, who got ordered a suicidal attack done it rather being punished to a stalker for example. The CPs are treated too good while the City is in absolute starvation what shouldn't be. The CPs are normal Citizen only with some protection above them and training. They should starve too and well go rogue, but most of them (afaik) just fear what happens to their character because if you go rogue, at least 3 or 4 OTAs will be send after you.
Loyalist Party is just useless, I fully agree even myself as Tier-4 (Application sended for Tier-5) I see no point in it. No actual gathering, no actual events, only okay who can now sucks the cock of the CCAs so deeply as possible and surprise, suprise it is the Tier-6 that are actually racist (lmao) who just insult you for simply existing and like to insult one CWU Manager. The Party isn't anymore something special, it is simply just who can sucks much off stuff from the combines. Nepotism is such a huge thing there isn't even more loyalty besides T-6 maybe.
0xNiklas
Radio Bob Approved
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Holy fuck, you insane?
M U Z U N G U
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- Jul 13, 2021
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Peak RP immersion
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The Old PK policy, sorta, the older PK policy, yes. The Newest PK Policy not at all with CPs being more penalised than your average Rebel and a lot of deaths now protected via NLR with little to no danger. I don't think the PK policy is the main issue...
The issue I think more or less comes down to the snitching problem which a while ago was heavily penalised... but for some reason as of the last few months has become less and less risky to something which is super safe to do. I am not sure why so many Snitches get away with what they do, why CPs listen to them, why they aren't punished and so on. If it was up to me, Snitches would be allowed but only if they have some proper reason other than "I love combine" or "I hate this guy/group" along with needing to be older than 2 weeks to snitch since 2 weeks old characters normally have a lot more to lose than a new character.
I would also make it that the moment you snitch, you are 100% open to a PK since you have basically elected yourself to be on the Combines side by snitching a player. So if someone puts a bullet in your head anytime after you snitched, your dead. Game over, start life again as all you have is lost over that one mistake.
Also, as for your comment on the mission I sent recently... actually, people have accepted it not afraid to lose their character and this is where I say: Stop being afraid to lose your progress. Something people will need to accept is that no one cares if you put 1000000000 years into your character, it is worth the same as others, so the moment it fucks up and dies, kiss your development goodbye, characters are not meant to return from the dead and lots of people playing Serious RP accept this as fact with the unified belief of "Never attach yourself to your character since it can disappear at a moments notice" a statement that has rung true since the birth of SeriousRP and those truly into it accept as part of what RP is.
Lots of people accept their deaths without issue and during Willard V1 and TLH event series, people accepted their months of dev down the drain while still putting tons of effort into everything they made since in the end, they knew what RP is about. Over time, however, our player base has switched from the death accepting players we once had to ones who get scared if even a hint of a PK is mentioned. It's part of that script mentality more than it is protecting Development.
Of course, you can blame that early RPG grind for that which is still around to this day, but is continuously being lowered little by little with recent players getting their first gun very early on vs the month+ it took before. For correct referencing, we did a test with a few players & staff who started with nothing and saw how quickly they could rise up to the top. That reportedly succeded with tons of chips made very easily and material production tending to increase around the 1-2 week marker alongside the creation of weapons & ammo... which by my standards is still too slow. So am working towards reducing that yet again.
TD:LR
- Current PK policy is alright and actually gives a fuckton more NLR's than PK's
- Death and losing development is no longer accepted by newer players unlike the old-timers who all learnt to accept death regardless of dev time spent.
- Snitches are one of the key issues causing Rebels to run and hide, thus should be heavily penalised and pkable 100% of the time.
- CPs should also cease all activity and interaction with Snitches and shrug it off.
- Never attach yourself to any form of character you own
- Tests showed grind was reduced and while true, it is still a bit on the long side which may input to the Rebels fearing death part.
T
The_Grass_Man
Guest
Willards ''rebels'' aren't even rebels anymore, they're just terrorists that aren't any better than the CPs. Bombing places like the RDC or the streets where a lot of innocent citizens live isn't really a rebellion, more like a mass genocide. They need to put down the guns and start doing other things that help the community.
Stonetb
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At this point, Willard is so gentle and even-tempered that it could never commit to something like this at its current state.
Stonetb
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They have essentially become terrorist sympathizers that call themselves the 'resistance' for their actions, even though they do not live up to what the definition of resistance actually entails. And people seem to have been misled by what terrorism means on the community. It doesn't mean going through violence nor does it entail hurting anyone. Quite simply, resistance refers only to defiance; an insistence on doing things one's own way or of refusing anything imposed upon oneself without protest.
Despite the actions that the resistance was behind, there is no excuse for supporting them because they advocate for terrorism. These people are hellbent on carrying out war instead of working together (outside of GM-aided events on the main server) to try and come up with a compromise. These individuals are not simply some kind of rebellious group out for mayhem and destruction; they want to bring down the very people they think will provide them with their salvation.
And quite frankly, rebellion is quite easy. The scripts that help form a resistance group aren't as scrutinized as they once were in the Launch Era. And the resistance has larger finances than the people from Combine-sided counterparts (a bit silly no?). Either way, there is actually quite a lot more to note down; much of which can be self-explanatory if people are red-pilled enough.
One thing is clear, however: Some rebel players, if not all, feel so homesick that they can't even commit to anything at all (this has been the case for God knows how long, and we both know it). There are definitely people who hide behind their upcoming PK appeal and hoard weapons and resources from other players who don't want to do such things themselves. And in my opinion, that's what lead to admin involvement, but this only caused more problems since the admins have no idea what they're doing.
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Rabid
Radio Bob Approved
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The 'Bottle Street Era' worked because of the grind, not in spite of it, which is something I don't think people have realised.
People had to focus on other avenues of roleplay while they gradually worked on getting better armed and better equipped. They needed to take those early days slow and carefully, and that by nature encouraged them to stay on the surface and work within the city given the supplies needed. It also helped that the majority of the roleplay and focus was on the city; it was a win-win.
But by reducing the time needed to get a gun and gear you are encouraging people to skip this part even further, not pushing them back towards it. If my options are to make a surface gang and pretend to take it slow or just speedrun to getting a gun and gear to join in, I'm probably going to go the latter route.
The systems were never designed to keep people on the surface, which I think was a mistake you can't fix now - the RebelRp population is too large of a percentage of the playerbase for that. Catering to them to this extent invariably traps you in a cycle, and the reason the fond times people remember from mid-late 2021 vanished was precisely because rebels could suddenly get all the gear they needed to where the city was just pointless.
Snitches are also a symptom, not the actual issue. If snitches vanished people would start pointing fingers at cops, or PK's, or anything else. No matter how much gear and NLR's you give rebels, they're generally risk-adverse as a whole.
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M
Merlinsclaw
Guest
Guys… I have a plan to make Loyalist RP interesting…
we ban political parties
we ban political parties
Look brody I dont need the paragraphs I just need an outlands server and less grind, what is the point of being a rebel when you grind of shit just to lose it in mere minutes due to a bad stroke of luck or down right bad RP and trust me ive played some grindy servers but holy shit willard is on a new level. I love popping potions like a one punch dark souls god just to craft a shitty revolver from 1917
M
Merlinsclaw
Guest
HL2 Purists don’t realize that the game is super bare bones. A “pure” HL2RP server like A:W only works because it’s not a 24/7 model.
Just make the game fun if you ask me lol
DirectorHomeless
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- Jul 27, 2021
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I agree with some of this, however:
Having a snitch merely be open to be PK'd is not enough, most of the time, they will snitch in exchange for immunity or a healthy dose of SC that gets them well on their way to becoming a loyalist and will never show their face in the slums again. Ever.
So what can people do with regards to that? the answer is not much.
Say you knew who a snitch was, where they lived you had PK perms etc etc....you still need to go into the housing blocks....which sit in the Nexus, you need to bring some form of object to kill them with, and since poison doesn't really exist server-side in the conventional sense, your left with melee weapons and firearms.
You stab someone with a knife, they are going to '/me screams their head off as they are stabbed'
You shoot someone the CP's will go and investigate the gunshot and will Amputate whoever they find to have committed the murder and subsequently amputate them, resulting in yet another PK.
There are next to no repercussions for snitching, literally none if your goal is to be a loyalist, but you cause a MASSIVE amount of havoc if you do.
With regards to the 'PK Policy', it is still very very dangerous ad pretty heavily weighted against rebels, if you want specifics:
1. the only way a CP can be PK'd is via a Shadow sweep, that's it. all other instances are NLR or NLR+De-rank at worst.
2. Rebels have a plethora of ways to be PK'd:
- Sewer NPC's (regardless of how broken some of them are, see; Gonome, Bullsquids etc etc)
- Becoming an Armed Combatant in ANY TBC, even if it is self-defence
- Captured and dragged away by Combine on a shadow sweep
- Killed for Crimes which you may not necessarily commit but might be in the presence of.
- Breaching Red Tier Contraband, so if CP's wander into the slums on a patrol and your wearing a trench-coat, you are PK'd if they catch you
- A slum patrol comes in and you happen to have a knife or an Axe out? your dead because you can either enter TBC as a defender and still be
PK'd because your considered an armed combatant, voluntary or not. Or you can try and run as CP's shoot you repeatedly and follow you around the map, resulting in a PK, because you had an axe on you which warrants a PK because its Red Contraband.
You combine the aforementioned with the Grind for equipment to actually get to that stage, Character Auths, Getting levels in stuff to achieve better equipment and thus further your goals.....are you surprised people who play rebels don't really leave the slums or want to take much risk when the spectrum to die is that broad?
The one faction that has a middle ground are Vortigaunts...they have to work hard for their freedom, but once they are free they are a relatively self-sufficient entity, and in a group they have a good chance of survival with the distinct lack for need or want of equipment.
And whilst characters aren't (in most circumstances) meant to return from the dead, people get unhappy when 3 months of work goes down the toilet and they are told to start over when others in the same position don't necessarily feel the bite as bad as they do, you may not AGREE with what i have said but that is your reason.
Liam
The Rebel Man
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In my opinion, also as a non staff but as a rebel player during the Bottlestreet/Sunrise era...I can definitley say the "magic" is gone. While occasionly I do still see some great RP, it is mostly influenced or pushed by me as a BMD. Back in the bottlestreet era the rebels seemed like a mystery. If you wanted to join them, it was really-really hard to pinpoint who rebels were or where they were hiding. It's safe to say it took a lot of effort to track down a rebel group and then join one.
Now, they all hang out in the shelter/park in full gear talking ab their latest trash run and comparing the size of their dicks...*coughs* I mean guns. They seem to get the two confused though. And that is because the systems in place have bread that behavior. Anyway, here is how I think we could bring back some of that magic:
1) Remove the DoB. They fucking suck. Go back to the CWU system. They "suck" due to poor ooc/ic management, gatekeeping of which type of stores you can have, never being active and making the lack of stores worse by claiming some to be unusable. It honestly feels like that whatever store owner gets the DoB Director role just uses their poisition to create an monopoly and keep their store "the best" and making the most money. You can see this from O'Hairs & The Pint. (Gotfried Hansen & O'Hair both from The O'Hairs Store have been Directors. In that time O'Hair's was the best store statistically. Now with Zoey Grodno, The Pint is center stage.) Back in the CWU era of store management, pretty much anyone was able to get a store and was able to set up in Indigent, build stalls, and have their business sell whatever they want without Zoey Grdono saying "Well we already have the pint so no threats to me...i mean, no bars. Wait what?". Additionly, the Department of Business store in Victory 3 is the least active store and just a waste of space for potentislly another great store. It's an empty shell of what it once was when it held places like The Sanctum of Breen. Which, if you know the story there...was actually a source for a lot of rebel rp
Rant aside, stores compliment rebel rp as fronts, as well as sources for certain materials like raw alcohol. I have even seen them as ways to launder chips into credits. All of which being great RP. But with the DoB in place, we will never see those avenues of RP again. (It's worth noting I think the DoB is an issue within itself and killing city rp as well)
2) Increase the "material cost" of everything so that items are more expensive. I'd go as far as to say just double everything and make a chip 1/4 of the value of a credit instead of 1/2.
3) Make trashbags more scarce. Back in the bottlestreet era there was like what...8 locations in and around the slums? Now there is like 40 or even more. I'd drastically decrease it so that people cannot build an entire rebel alliance out of literally somone else's trash. (Especially now with the introduction of player bmds, we can start to move the focus away from npc traders)
In the B/S era, trashbags were not sustainable nor a source to build an empire on. We mainly relied on shotcops, to then sell their gear to a BMD or keep their weapons for ourselves (USP matches & MP7's were much more common place back then). We'd also rely on expeditions or admin bmd events in the event box to aquire materials or perhaps even better weapons. All of which with a decent pk risk attatched. Trashbags were just...trash. They were a bonus that if we saw one we'd pick it up, but we wouldn't go looking for them. The most we ever needed trashbags for was to mass produce water bottles, flashlights and lighters. Water bottles for drinking and flashlights and lighters so that our smuggling rebels in our group can make some chips for us by selling them. (That was another thing, with the old systems many rebels used to have a focus. Whether it be a smuggler in the group, a crafter, a doctor, etc)
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